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Encore RC . ExperienceRC . JR AMERICAS
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Gasser Model RC Helicopters

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New OS 15cc Gas engine

rexxigpilot

Elite Veteran

Florida

The "good engine for beginners" is due to the long flight times you will get, not because it is seriously lacking in power. Heck, all RC heli IC engines are underpowered when compared to electric power. My Xera 4030 in my Logo 600 put out about 3600 watts or 4.8 HP (4500W input * 80% eff.) max. based on the CC data logger. So under this scenario the rediculously "low" 2.1 HP max. of an OS 55HZ-R should make all 50 nitro helis impossible to fly 3D.

06-08-2012 Over year old.
brw0513

Senior Heliman

Brisbane, Australia

rexxi,

I agree with your philosophy This engine may not produce chart topping numbers, but perhaps it still could be a gem in the right application.
+1 on OS success,it would make things so much easier and cheaper,wont be holding my breath on the chances.OS should be looking at designing a cooling system to run alongside this new motor,with nitro on the up and spare cash in ever shorter supply,if it could work,i think they would benefit tremendously.
That's a very good point about the cooling system. If a large part of the success of this engine is based on the effectiveness of the cooling, then perhaps OS should offer that as part of the package. Maybe they've been busy with Align on this topic?

Now OS are into brushless motors, maybe they could offer us a ducted fan solution?

Ian B

06-09-2012 Over year old.
Gearhead

rrMaster

Vt

""not because it is seriously lacking in power""

if you think that OS Gasser is going to be as powerful as a good 90 Glow engine your fooling yourself, at 14,000 RPM in no way will it produce the same power as a 90 Glow turning 15,000 or 16,000 burning 30 %


""So under this scenario the rediculously "low" 2.1 HP max. of an OS 55HZ-R should make all 50 nitro helis impossible to fly 3D""

but an OS 55 does not weigh as much as an OS 90 , and the 55 does spin 3,000RPM more than that OS Gasser, and 4,000 more with the right gearing and right pipe

Jim
Buzz Buzz Buzz

06-09-2012 Over year old.
jimmymc2286

Senior Heliman

Commiskey, Indiana USA

--

I think most of you are missing the point of the 15cc gasser. Not everyone wants a 3d smackdown machine. Ok we all want one but a lot of us can't fly 3D and would love to have a Gasser that we could fly for pennies a minute not dollars a minute. I fly with a small group of guys (7) and all of us are looking forward to this engine working and making it to market. If not this one someone will make one that will work and the market is there for it. There are plenty of 3D helicopters on the market, and plenty of high power engines to put in them. This is not one of them and is not meant to be. This engine is meant for fliers like me, all I want it to do is fly with a loop and a roll thrown in for fun. It will do that. It will work in scale, and just about any sport flying you could want.

Jimmy, If it looks like a heli I like it.

06-09-2012 Over year old.
brw0513

Senior Heliman

Brisbane, Australia

There are plenty of 3D helicopters on the market, and plenty of high power engines to put in them. This is not one of them and is not meant to be.
Totally agree.

For a given engine capacity, I can't see how a petrol engine could ever be expected to make more power than its nitro equivalent x (calorific value of petrol)/(calorific value of nitro based fuel).

Ian B

06-09-2012 Over year old.
Eleven_Bravo

Veteran

Salisbury,NC

60 minutes on a tank huh even if it does half that im fine with a half hour flight time.

I have an old Hawk Pro 30 with a OS32 in it (poor tired ol thing) I love this old stable heli just to fly circuits and piro hovers. It is not the latest greatest 3D machine but it flies for a half hour at a time (500cc i think) I love this heli because I love to fly period I do not always have to be flying at my limit to love flying a rc heli. I have electric helis for that. If you have ever flew a heli with an Os 32 in it you know yourself its so pathetic that it does not have enough power to fly if its more than a few clicks off its optimal tune. I still LOVE to fly this heli though it flies forever.

Even if all this new gas engine will do is give a 90 sized machine the power to weight ratio of a OS37 in a 30 count me in. If it has more than that even better. If it can do this without overheating and give me long flight times count me in. If it will save me 20 bux a gallon on fuel in the process even better.

DXXb I just realized something I need to just quit being a freaking tightwad and go get myself a gasser and be done with it. Hurry up!!! Miniature Aircraft or im going to end up with a Radikal.

ENGAGE!!

06-09-2012 Over year old.
shawmcky

Elite Veteran

Isle of Wight,United Kingdom

Electric + all out clean 3D power,Nitro 2nd best ,fuel expensive,for those that things well lubricated Gasoline,for those that aint too bothered about kick ass 3D,like cheap fuel and cruising like a caddyMe i am in No3

Team- unbiased opinion.K.I.S.S principle upheld here

06-09-2012 Over year old.
rexxigpilot

Elite Veteran

Florida

""not because it is seriously lacking in power""

if you think that OS Gasser is going to be as powerful as a good 90 Glow engine your fooling yourself, at 14,000 RPM in no way will it produce the same power as a 90 Glow turning 15,000 or 16,000 burning 30 %

""So under this scenario the rediculously "low" 2.1 HP max. of an OS 55HZ-R should make all 50 nitro helis impossible to fly 3D""

but an OS 55 does not weigh as much as an OS 90 , and the 55 does spin 3,000RPM more than that OS Gasser, and 4,000 more with the right gearing and right pipe
I think you missed my point. What I was getting at is a typical electric 600mm blade size heli makes more than double the peak power of a nitro 600mm machine. Yet, you don't see everyone writing that the sky is falling because nitro is so much less powerful than electric, do you? So why is it that so many are concerned about a reduction in peak power between the OS 91HZ-R and the OS GT15HZ of less than 18%?

It was already shown that a T-Rex 700N with the GT15HZ will have about the same performance (power to weight ratio) as a T-Rex600N using a OS 50 Hyper. I don't know about some of you, but I can certainly do any 3D maneuver there is with my T-Rex 600N with an 50 Hyper.
For a given engine capacity, I can't see how a petrol engine could ever be expected to make more power than its nitro equivalent x (calorific value of petrol)/(calorific value of nitro based fuel).
Fact check. Gasoline has about twice the energy density as methanol and nitromethane. However, it has to mix with twice the amount of air or Air-Fuel ratio for proper combustion as methanol. That is the primary reason why gas helis fly so long on the same amount of fuel compared to glow fuel.

The biggest issue will be the ability to dissipate the heat generated by the gas engine. Gas burns at a higher temperature than methanol and nitromethane. Gasoline also has a lower Heat of Vaporization (pour some glow fuel on your hand and let it evaporate. Now do the same thing with gasoline. Much more cooling with glow fuel. Now you get the idea). Since the gas engine burns half the fuel to make the same power, this makes the Delta Hvap issue worse, since there is less fuel to do the cooling. What all this means is the engine can't keep itself cool enough (when constructed of conventional materials) using the same fan size/design as a glow engine.

If we increase the air flow with a bigger or faster fan for more cooling, we introduce more air pumping losses that will be taken from the gas engine. Another idea is to make the engine's critical components (combustion chamber, piston, etc.) out of a material that can withstand higher temperature, like ceramic. Additional cooling surface area with conventional materials can help cool the gas engine. Has anyone else noticed how much more cooling fin area there is on the OS GT55 gas engine for planks compared to say a DLE-55? Another option is liquid cooling, which would add too much weight for small aircraft.

To summarize, it is entirely possible to get great power from a gas engine of a similar size to a glow fuel engine. The biggest obstacle is heat dissipation. There are many benefits to a gasoline engine beyond flight time and lower fuel costs too. Bearings don't get beat up from the detonation which occurs more prevalently in a glow engine, and gasoline is not as hygroscopic, so the bearings don't rust like in a glow engine.

With the price of glow fuel going up and the cost of LiPo batteries coming down, it won't be long before there is no available IC engine for RC use other than gas - except as antiques. Get use to gasoline if you are set on liquid fuel powered RC helis.

06-09-2012 Over year old.
Justin Stuart

rrMaster

Plano, Texas

The cooling head on that OS gas engine looks pretty big.

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06-09-2012 Over year old.
Blanka

Senior Heliman

lover city

they are working together with ALIGN so I'm pretty sure a new Trex or new airframes are coming.
from the prototype pics I see no fuel regulator do you ?

06-10-2012 Over year old.
shawmcky

Elite Veteran

Isle of Wight,United Kingdom

Unlike this "Nitro" fuel regulator,which i can vouch for,works well

Team- unbiased opinion.K.I.S.S principle upheld here

06-10-2012 Over year old.
rexxigpilot

Elite Veteran

Florida

from the prototype pics I see no fuel regulator do you ?
The pics clearly show the regulator. No doubt the same crankcase pressurization and regulator type system as used in the 91HZ-R.
they are working together with ALIGN so I'm pretty sure a new Trex or new airframes are coming.
Do you have a link or anything to back this up? I would love to convert my T-Rex 700N to gas. It's a great flying heli, but I can't stand the $3-4/flight operating cost. I'll gladly trade 82% power for 60 cents per flight operating cost that lasts 3 times as long. Even using a $3 per tanks nitro cost for the 700, gas is 15 times cheaper to operate per minute. Lose 400cc of fuel weight (0.74 lbs) and you end up with a heli that has 94% of the performance in power to weight as the 91 glow powered heli with the same flight time. Again, cooling and added weight for the greater cooling needed is my main concern, particularly for us that live in hot environments.

I've been wanting to build a gasser for a long time now. Never cared for the low power to weight of the typical weed wacker engines. I will give the OS 15 a try.

Note to OS, keep the cost reasonable. I passed on both your GT55 and GT33 for my last two gas planks due to your high price tags for both those engines. You can make up the development cost over time, not on early adoptors.

06-11-2012 Over year old.
Justin Stuart

rrMaster

Plano, Texas

Note to OS, keep the cost reasonable.
I'm betting on $699 for the engine.

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06-11-2012 Over year old.
Blanka

Senior Heliman

lover city

June 24 is the day of demo flight... Zenoah sucks! GO O.S
http://www.os-engines.co.jp/event_info/webdir/12.html

06-11-2012 Over year old.
Justin Stuart

rrMaster

Plano, Texas

Do you read Japanese? How did you figure out June 24 from that link?

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06-11-2012 Over year old.
Inspector Fuzz

Key Veteran

NLA

The engine may run fine.

However, power wise it will be a dog, a really bad dog. There is no away around the chemistry. Even though gas has more power per unit mass, alcohol combines with air at more than twice the rate that gas does, which makes it impossible to get the same power from the same displacement with gas that you get with alcohol.

The motor will be lighter than a G20 or 23, which will help a little, but it will have power on par with a .60 glow on 15% running a muffler.

You could make up a little bit of the power difference by running a full wave pipe, but that will make the tuning much more commplicated.

No free lunch.

06-11-2012 Over year old.
ymuraki

Senior Heliman

Tampa, FL

June 24

That's not release date.
As you said, that's the date for OS Helicopter event and planing to do demo the the engine.

Futaba/Hobbico
Morgan Fuel
Esprit Model
Kontronik

06-11-2012 Over year old.
theriddick45

Veteran

United States

Follow this link website in English.

http://www.os-engines.co.jp/english/index.htm

Suzi Janis 800e 700e w/Vbar & 550e stretch to 700e w/Ikon

06-11-2012 Over year old.
HOMEPAGE  
Justin Stuart

rrMaster

Plano, Texas

Thanks for the link. Here is what I found:

http://www.os-engines.co.jp/english...snewsgt15_e.pdf

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06-11-2012 Over year old.
rexxigpilot

Elite Veteran

Florida

However, power wise it will be a dog, a really bad dog. There is no away around the chemistry. Even though gas has more power per unit mass, alcohol combines with air at more than twice the rate that gas does, which makes it impossible to get the same power from the same displacement with gas that you get with alcohol.
Actually, the stoichiometry or perfect chemical reaction shows high octane gasoline using twice the oxygen as either methanol or ethanol. So with each intake stroke of perfect mixture (mostly air), the combustion chamber has about the same energy potential whether it uses gas or glow fuel (half the fuel but the nearly same volume air with either fuel). The nitro in a glow fuel mixture, if it contains nitromethane, has an oxidizing component. That's why high nitro fuel has more power than low or no nitro even though the energy density of the methanol and nitromethane are about the same. The nitro helps the fuel burn more readily/faster.

There is no reason to guess how powerful the new gas engine is. We know the power ratings of the OS GT15HZ and 91HZ-R. The 2.8 HP peak output of the GT15HZ is 82% of the 91HZ-R's 3.4 HP peak output.

06-11-2012 Over year old.
WATCH  21 pages [ <<    <     1     ( 2 )     3      4     NEXT    >> ]31685 viewsPOST REPLY
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New OS 15cc Gas engine

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