RR Rated M For Mature
HOME   rrTV-PHOTO   GALLERIES   MY GALLERY   HELP-FAQ
myHOME PM pmRR MEMBERS 748 ONLINE 18 EVENTS SEARCH REGISTER  START HERE
 
4 pages [ <<    <     1     ( 2 )     3      4     NEXT    >> ]6109 viewsPOST REPLY
HeliProz . Ron’s HeliProz South . MTA Hobbies

.
.
e-MS Composit Hornet > Hornet frustration
 
 
Dennis
Senior Heliman
Location: Oregon

My Posts This: Topic  Forum

pxb........

Sorry to hear you have had a bad experience with your new Hornet.

Based on my experience, there is no way I would promise a potential customer that a CP Hornet will respond as smooth and responsive as a gas heli. That is simply not possible. They are different than gas helis. They are getting closer with battery technology getting better all the time. But, they are still different. They still do surprisingly well when built and set up properly though. In fact, they will do 3D flight as the videos out there on the Internet will show you.

But, for all that ask here, we tell all that "ANY" Micro CP Electric Heli is difficult to build and hard to fly. Thats the challenge with these things. We say the same thing to all that ask.

If there is anything we can do to help, please drop us an e mail, or give us a call with your concerns, and we will see if we can help.

Also, the Hornet BBS is an excellant forum for the Hornet Micro Helis. here is the link:

http://www.hornet-heli.com/cgi-bin/bbs/ultimatebb.cgi
10-21-2003 Over year old.
PROFILE   PM   EMAIL   POSTS   BUDDY   IGNORE  
 
 
Sealerman
Veteran
Location: Long Island, New York.

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		When I 1st bought my Hornet for Heliproz I asked for the complete package. I got the kit with the motor included, the MS esc, the MS gyro,2 NiMH 750ma packs and a berg5 rec.. The hornet would bearly hover and for only 5 min. at the most. I called Helipros back and was told basicly that I should throw out everything but the Berg5. When I've ordered parts like a new frame or gear box from Helipros and another site they sent me the older parts that did not have the hole for the set screw. Why would any one want the older ones with out the set screw. It seems like if you don't know to ask for the newer parts they send you the old ones they can't get rid of. I'm going to try to put a tail motor on my Hornet because I just want to fly not reverse engineer this thing.
I have my own driveway sealing business. If I sold my service to someone and told them I would be there to seal their driveway. If they came home and found 3 pales of sealer, poor instructions and no mention of the fact that they have to put the sealer on and you need a brush to seal the driveway. And than I told them that there are forums in which my other customers discuss how to seal their driveways and the fact that the sealer I left them sucks, I think they would be pist.
10-21-2003 Over year old.
PROFILE   PM   EMAIL   POSTS   BUDDY   IGNORE   GALLERY
 
 
greenhornet
Heliman
Location: Tacoma, Washington

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		Thanks Hornet Dave. I will probably make my own bearing blocks out of the old bushing blocks.
10-21-2003 Over year old.
PROFILE   PM   EMAIL   POSTS   BUDDY   IGNORE  
 
 
pxb
Heliman
Location: St. Peters, MO

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		Thanks Sealerman - I haven't laughed so hard in YEARS!!!! (it may have been hysterical laughter!) Your driveway sealing analog is so perfect it had me in tears!


Dennis@deetee,

Thanks for the support and honesty. A simple statement like "be aware, micro helicopters are more difficult to build, harder to fly, and require more maintenance than gas powered heli" is all I was looking for. You are the first store representative that I have had admit that.


I went to the heli-hornet forum as suggested, and found that the CSM HLG200 (even though it is listed as a compatible option on the wizard page) has had very little success. I had even called the store (when they had a phone number) to ask if there were any issues with this gyro and they had said no. Anyway, I have a GY240 on order and all my metal tail parts should be here in a day or two -- I am hoping for great improvement.

Echoing Sealerman's (and others) comments, I believe that I also was sold obsolete parts. The distance from the stock tail bellcrank to the my upgraded aluminum bellcrank pivot is around 10mm, but I discovered the aluminum bellcrank I was sold is 15mm. Why the difference? The 15mm length puts the pitch slider ball well behind the tail shaft. This results in the ball contacting the pitch slider arm near the bottom and allows the pitch slider to have more play than the STOCK bellcrank. I also noticed that this aluminum bellcrank is no longer for sale, replaced by a new design that appears to have the correct dimensions. Hmmmm...

Also, there is no way the swashplate antirotation assembly on my upgraded aluminum swashplate could have ever worked for more than limited hovering. And again, the part appears to have been redesigned, because the same part on the webpage now has a much longer anti-rotation arm to allow greater swashplate movement.

Also, I ordered the B20-22S motor with pinion and was sent the 14 tooth brass pinion. From what I have been reading this is not the best pinion choice. (Also, the pinion set screws were the wrong size).

Anyway, enough whining. Maybe I am just not enlightened yet. I have too much money invested now ($1300+) to turn back - I am determined to make this work. And I need a good winter season project anyway.

Thanks for the info (and laughs!)
10-21-2003 Over year old.
PROFILE   PM   EMAIL   POSTS   BUDDY   IGNORE  
 
 
Crasher
Senior Heliman
Location: Gone on that

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		I STRONGLY suggest ditching the stock tail rotor hub. Get the "Tail Rotor Hub & Grip Assembly" from Deetee


http://www.deeteeenterprises.com/NS...il.upgrades.php


Should increase your gain considerably!!!
10-21-2003 Over year old.
PROFILE   PM   EMAIL   POSTS   BUDDY   IGNORE  
 
 
pxb
Heliman
Location: St. Peters, MO

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		Crasher,

You're killing me!! I just laid out $275 in recommended upgrades in the past four days - now there is another $80 upgrade to buy!! And this one won't work with the all metal tail (that is still in the mail), the installation instructions say to use the STOCK carbon fiber tail shaft - the one I was just told to be sure to replace!!!! Ahhhaaggghh!!!!

This looks like a nice upgrade, but the kids are going without food to get this helicopter squared away. The whole kit for this helicopter is only $178, most of the upgrades are half the price of a kit!! THIS IS INSANE!!!!

Anyway, thanks for the input and I will keep this in mind for the next upgrade when the latest round of parts I just ordered don't work as usual.

Thanks ---
10-22-2003 Over year old.
PROFILE   PM   EMAIL   POSTS   BUDDY   IGNORE  
 
 
HiroboEric
Veteran
Location: Los Angeles, CA.

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		I would recommend dumping the stock push rod and changing it out to a carbon rod like is used in the boom for the tail drive along with your standard 2mm ball joints on that rod. Glue the one end directly on to the rod and the other mount with a with a large du bro #212 threaded coupler for adjustment of the mechanical tail rod length. Then turn off the revo mix mechanically trim that rod to hold straight out of heading hold and in a hover and then your done. Turn on HH and it should hold great. If it appears to hunt move your ball closier to the center of the servo arm. and repeat first process again. Now here is you tip for the day take your battery location and can it. mount a battery plate on the 40 degree angle on the front of the frame. use 2 squares velcro to hold the battery in place one battery one plate. Then a strap on the top and bottom of your battery to to hold it. I use the long straps from Osh hardware and just cut them up to length. Now your CG will change but this is rectified by mounting that tail servo down the boom. Now I know this is alot of work however I said you could do it but I didn't say it would be quick and easy. If you have doubts find the battery on Eric Larsens video on the helihobby site. By bringing the heaviest component of the helicopter up closier to the head you will increase the roll and pitch rate tremendously. Happy flying campers.

Eric Pacheco, AirWorksRC.com
10-22-2003 Over year old.
PROFILE   PM   EMAIL   POSTS   BUDDY   IGNORE   HOMEPAGE   GALLERY
 
 
Sealerman
Veteran
Location: Long Island, New York.

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		Hi PXB

PXB I was thinking me and you could just chip in togather and buy a real helicopter this way our kids may go hunger but at least we can take them on cool sight seeing trips. I'm told a real Bell Jet Ranger is only about $80 more than it is going to cost to get this fricken Hornet to fly right and it's a lot less work.
I'm putting donation cans in all the local hobby shop to help feed my kids you might want to do the same.

Are you going to finish that .

Sealerman
10-22-2003 Over year old.
PROFILE   PM   EMAIL   POSTS   BUDDY   IGNORE   GALLERY
 
 
carbon
Heliman
Location: Indiana

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		send them to me

Hey guys, I'm not an engineer, just an electronics salesman. I'm running stock tail with stock gears and stock # of bearings on the shaft. all stock bearings. I love my hornet. I have had it over a year now, with very little probs. Most of my issues were with setup issues but of corse it just took some time to think them through and I corrected them. My point is you dont need $1200 worth of hornet or be an engineer to have one that flies right. Good luck and keep trying - its a great heli.
10-22-2003 Over year old.
PROFILE   PM   EMAIL   POSTS   BUDDY   IGNORE  
 
 
Dennis
Senior Heliman
Location: Oregon

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		pxb......

We understand your concern with the steel tail output shaft and our E032a tail hub and grips upgrade. In order for us to offer some kind of warrantee for this little gem, we did place in there the requirements for using the stock E037 C/F tail output shaft. There were 2 reasons for this. The first is that, we believe, the steel tail output shaft is really not necessary for a precision tail. And, it does add more weight to the tail end. The second is that with this nice little upgrade for your tail pitch mechanism, if you hit something hard with your tail, and you are using the steel tail output shaft, you can damage your nice upgrade badly instead of possibly shearing a stock C/F shaft. Also, we are not sure of the exact diameter of the steel tail output shafts out there and connot guarantee 100% that this unit will fit those properly. We believe there are 2 or three different diameters of those out there. Thats why we included a C/F tail output shaft with this unit that is slightly oversized, with instructions on how to make a custom fit.

We do understand your concerns and will re think our warrantee policies on this matter by this coming weekend anyway. Its our goal to keep our warrantee info the same to benefit all, and offer this upgrade to as many as want it. Heck, we are not even close to the first 90 days of release on this one. But, have a lot of these out there in a very, very short amount of time and it is working flawlessly so far with excellant tail flying benefits being reported to us by all. Keep an eye on that same link for some possible updates to warrantee info by this coming weekend. We are a bit slow in changing some policies and want to think it through to be as fair to all as possible to all concerned. Right from the design/manufactuer, through us and to the most important guy, the pilot.
10-22-2003 Over year old.
PROFILE   PM   EMAIL   POSTS   BUDDY   IGNORE  
 
 
Deja_Vu
Senior Heliman
Location: Salt Lake City, Utah

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		Sealerman, I'd like to get in on that real helicopter deal....


Carbon, my question to you is how much backwards flight can you do with your stock setup? I'd like to know cause everything I'm hearing is that it can't do much 3D stock, if it can, I'd really like to know what you've done to set it up, so I can learn from it. Thanks.
10-22-2003 Over year old.
PROFILE   PM   EMAIL   POSTS   BUDDY   IGNORE  
 
 
Sealerman
Veteran
Location: Long Island, New York.

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		Stock set up?

Hi Guys,

I don't want to hear a stock set up will do 3D or even fly well. I have converted (3) 21st century Toy helicopters I bought from Toys R Us into fling heli's. I came in 2nd place at the WRAM show last year with one of them and it was pictured in Model Heli World mag. http://www.rcmmagazine.com/e/env/00...3/wram2003.html check it out at the RCM Magazine web site. I had no instructions and unlike the other guys who have done this I was able to keep the cockpit free of all electronic by cutting the front of the mechanics off and mounting the servos for the tail and the throttle in the rear. It flies great with all 4 crewman on board and will give and vet. a Vetinam flash back in flight.
I had to solve cooling issues, exhaust issues and still kept the basic model intact including the skids. It took about 1/2 the time and aggravation I have spent tring to get this stupid little poorly desighed, over priced toy to just hover. If this thing could fly well on stock parts there would be no need for this forum and all the up grades.
The bearing suck and when a bearing starts to go bad the metal on metal friction can cause glitches. It is made of carbon fiber which transfers vibrations to everything. The tail drive shaft needs about 4 LO260 bearings in the boom to keep the shaft from wabbling and the stock tail gears are poorly constructed and out of round.
I finally got my tail to stop vibrating yesterday so I took the heli to a club meeting last night. I got 3 flights out of it and it started to glitch again and then the tail started to vibrate again. I did not crash but I have done more damage to this heli on my work bench and in the air by simply running it up to full throttle then I have by crashing into the earth.
So I do not want to hear it will fly with stock parts because there are many definitions of the word flight. The Wright brother flew in 1903 but a few people have inproved the design of the airplane a little since than.

Deja-vu
If you want in on the Jet Ranger idea put your Hornet on Ebay and save the $20 you get, i'll have my people call your people.

One good thing has come of this project of mine, I now have learned to have a lot more patience with my 2 &1/2 and 10 month old boys. maybe when there old enough to fly I will have worked all the bugs out of this heli of course I will have spent their college fund. Maybe I should save that money put them through college. When they become engineers they can help me finish this thing.
10-22-2003 Over year old.
PROFILE   PM   EMAIL   POSTS   BUDDY   IGNORE   GALLERY
 
 
pxb
Heliman
Location: St. Peters, MO

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		HiroboEric,

Now we're talking. Sounds like work, yes, but it also sounds like something that is going to work. I have been waiting for an excuse to replace the cheesy stock pushrod and clevis with a nice, short, solid pushrod - it just feels like a good solution (along with moving the battery pack - thanks for explaining some top 3D tricks). I am hoping that my tail problems were the result of the obsolete bellcrank, HLG200 mounted near the motor, and the tail vibration. I have a new GY240, gyro mounting bracket, all metal tail parts, walts new tail shaft (with lifetime warranty - how cool is that?), and upgraded tail hub all in the mail. The servo is going on the tail with the 2mm carbon shaft, ball joints, and short pushrod length. I am going to make this work the way I want, I can feel it...


Dennis@deetee and Crasher,

I guess I'll bite, the upgraded tail hub is on the way. I hate what this Hornet is doing to my life, but I can't help myself. I guess it is like being addicted to cocaine - only not as economical. I am just closing my eyes now and hitting the "Buy" button - I don't even want to add it all up. If I don't intercept this credit card bill before my wife sees it I am dead meat. No, really, I'll be hosed big time. I figure something between 6 months celibacy and divorce from this little adventure.

Thanks --
10-22-2003 Over year old.
PROFILE   PM   EMAIL   POSTS   BUDDY   IGNORE  
 
 
Crasher
Senior Heliman
Location: Gone on that

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		Atleast you know it's going to be right, let us know how it goes
10-22-2003 Over year old.
PROFILE   PM   EMAIL   POSTS   BUDDY   IGNORE  
 
 
Sealerman
Veteran
Location: Long Island, New York.

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		Hi Eric,

Very nice fling. Could you explain the best location for the servos, receiver, gyro and battery. I could not see the set up on the video.
I have my servos mounted on their side around the main mast. the battery and ph10 esc are mounted under the frame and the gyro and receiver are mounted on an after market mount in front of the frame. Any input you can give will be greatly appreciated.

Thanks
Sealerman
10-23-2003 Over year old.
PROFILE   PM   EMAIL   POSTS   BUDDY   IGNORE   GALLERY
 
 
pxb
Heliman
Location: St. Peters, MO

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		Eric,

Thanks for the info. I'll be estatic if I can get mine to fly like yours does in the video. My goal is inverted, slow backward, and slow backward inverted (circuits, figure 8's, etc.) in my back yard. I shouldn't be pushing the tail too hard. I have convinced myself that most of the tail problems were due to 1) CSM HLG200 gyro , 2) obsolete/incorrect tail bellcrank, and 3) shaft vibration above 1950 RPM. I have the new bellcrank (it's the correct size!) and all metal tail parts, GY240 gyro, GY240 mounting plate, 3D paddles,walts bearingless tail drive shaft, and the deetee tail hub all on the way. Probably more than I need, but I am not taking any more chances. Since I have been told that each upgrade allows a 20-25% gain increase I figure I should be able to crank the gyro up to something like 175%, but I'll be happy to match your 60%. I am also going to move the battery forward, put the tail servo well back on the tail, plus use a 2mm carbon pushrod with ball joints.

I do have two questions for you. First, is the purpose of the one-way bearing to allow autos or for some other reason. I have been told that the one-way bearing also helps improve tail performance. Seems like autos would be pretty tough with such light blades.

Second, for reference, do you know your pitch settings (hover and min/max) or should I just set up for the maximum I can get? My goal is 2300 rpm vibration free.

Thanks,
Paul

P.S. -- The heli-gods must be smiling on me, none of the credit card charges for upgrades posted to this months bill.
10-23-2003 Over year old.
PROFILE   PM   EMAIL   POSTS   BUDDY   IGNORE  
 
 
Dennis
Senior Heliman
Location: Oregon

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		pxb..........

No doubt, auto's are real tough with a CP Hornet. I had to try them though. First time, I went splat. Well, alright, I goofed. Fixed it and went at it again. Went splat about 3 out of 10 times. Dang, normally, auto's with my X-Cell 60 SE are a piece of cake. Had to give up doing them intentionally on the Hornet though. To much bench time. It just was not worth it. You do need some wind, and you will need lots of negative and come down fast. Just be ready at the bottom. A 60 size weights roughly 10 pounds. We are only talking roughly 10 ounces or less here.

At the same time, I would not fly any collective without a one-way on it. In case of a jam, at least you will have some opportunity to save it.

The one-way does help with tail as the throttle may lag a bit in negative pitch. That causes torque changes. The one-way will at least help offset torques changes in negative pitch a bit and does make the tail better.
10-23-2003 Over year old.
PROFILE   PM   EMAIL   POSTS   BUDDY   IGNORE  
 
 
Sealerman
Veteran
Location: Long Island, New York.

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		Hi Eric,

Thanks for the info. My hornet is finally flying again but it is tail heavy with the servo all the way back. I am afraid to change anything at this time for fear of offending the gods. I don't do any 3D with this heli now and have not done any forward flight with this new set up. I know when a plane is tail heavy it can be unflyable what about helis. Should I solve this problem now before doing forward flight or can I bask is the glory of this victory for a short time.

Thanks again.
Sealerman
10-23-2003 Over year old.
PROFILE   PM   EMAIL   POSTS   BUDDY   IGNORE   GALLERY
 
 
flyboy
Elite Veteran
Location: North America

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		Slightly bias

Traded mine for a hummingbird and a wad of cash. I couldn't be happier!

Who wants to glue plastic tail rotor gears to a metal shaft anyhow?

"Hey I will be right there I am waiting for the glue to dry on my thousand dollar helicopter"

Fun to fly (when it would) but I found it toooooooooo much of a hassle compared to what i got out of it.

Sold it put a wad of cash back into the helicopter fund, purchased a Hummingbird, and have never looked back.

Best move that I have ever made!

Mine was a thousand dollar piece of crap. Speaking about crap...

I suspect that if you were at the dog park and found a pile of dog crap, grabbed a handful and launched it into the air, it would fly CONSIDERABLY better than my hornet ever flew.

I might be slightly bias, but I have never had something so small, be such a project, with such little return.

Huge investment=Huge headache!
10-23-2003 Over year old.
PROFILE   PM   EMAIL   POSTS   BUDDY   IGNORE   GALLERY
 
 
Sealerman
Veteran
Location: Long Island, New York.

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		Hi Flyboy,

At least crap did not appear until it was properly designed and no said it was as good as food.

Right on brother.
Sealerman
10-23-2003 Over year old.
PROFILE   PM   EMAIL   POSTS   BUDDY   IGNORE   GALLERY
 
 
4 pages [ <<    <     1     ( 2 )     3      4     NEXT    >> ]6109 viewsPOST REPLY
Model Rectifier Corp . Scorpion Power System . RCHover

.
.
e-MS Composit Hornet > Hornet frustration
 Print TOPIC Advertisers 

Subscribe to This Topic

Saturday, November 21 - 10:41 pm - Copyright © 2000 - 2009 runryder.com | email | link to rr | START HERE | NF