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Vintage Kyosho Concept 30SR-X E-Conversion...

heli_headcase

Key Veteran

Hovering around Atlanta

Thanks!

Any questions?


HHC

So many heli's - too little time...

07-15-2011 Over year old.
Mark Spies

Veteran

Houston & LaPlace

Want to mod my 60 size.......

07-15-2011 Over year old.
heli_headcase

Key Veteran

Hovering around Atlanta

Going Bigger...

60 size...what? Concept? Plastic or carbon frame?

I've thought about this too but battery space isn't as available, I think. Same principles should apply. Need about a 450Kv motor on 12S and an old 61 crankcase to hack up. The larger size parts may make some things easier to do.

Good luck


HHC

So many heli's - too little time...

07-15-2011 Over year old.
heli_headcaseKey Veteran - Hovering around Atlanta -

Friday at Hodges Hobbies...

I drove the 150 miles to Hodges Hobbies yesterday to deliver Bill's SR-X and to play on the HUGE flying field with my models. Rain was always interrupting flying but was still fun and well worth the trip.

The SR-X 'E Type' managed only one pack of flight time but I was very impressed with how it covered the sky - even with only 1600rpm available. Heck, my Nexus Legato, powered by an OS 52FS-H had longer blades and same rpm and didn't have nearly the 'poop' this Concept has! Probably because the OS .52's HP output in equivalent watts would have been under 800 whereas the Concept pulled a peak of 1225W during its flight. That's significant.

Here's some pix shot while waiting for the rain to go away (never did) of my converted C30 and Bill's stock Concept SR-X:


HHC

So many heli's - too little time...

07-16-2011 Over year old.
PaulBowen

Senior Heliman

Australia.

Hello,

I had a Concept 46VR and loved it. It had an OS-50SX-H in it.

The quality was very inconsistant but the size and flight quality was fantastic.

Now to the point of this. If someone could produce the Concept line again as an electric I would buy a couple.

I love canopies and rotor head design from the DX all the way through and wished I could afford one as a child.

Great to see a good conversion, good luck.

07-17-2011 Over year old.
heli_headcase

Key Veteran

Hovering around Atlanta

Concept VR: Too Late to the Party...

Back in 1998 the USA Kyosho Team manager said he'd (snail) mail to me a product brochure of the new heli Kyosho was about to release, if I promised to not open my mouth about it. It was the C46VR pictures and specifications in a slick, colour copy. After having nothing but the NeckSux heli's to fly this was a very welcome model! Concepts were back!!!

I was shipped a preproduction kit to assemble and fly. Overall I liked it (OS 46FX-H?) but instantly uncovered some flaws. The clutch assembly was too small to engage solidly if the engine was running rich (break-in) and the biggest problem was the main rotor plastic block didn't have the mainshaft hole centered on any examples of that part. My VR shook until the day I tried some imbalanced carbon blades (still have them) and suddenly the heli was dead smooth.

I don't know what happened to my 46VR - probably destroyed in a crash - found some key components in with other like-parts. But I do have the 46VR of a friend containing an OS 50SX and this was one tricked-out, crazy mad machine. Its last flight ended with a botched auto, cutting the custom carbon boom in half. Was stretched to run 580mm blades and held up shockingly well. I need to rebuild it and put a Hyper 50 inside, no electric.

An electric C30 would be a cool heli to see back on the market but Kyosho has moved on. Can't see them or any other manufacture looking back to the late 80's heli designs in today's market. We're on our own...

BTW, have been testing some other blades since breaking the Heli-Max 520mm carbons seen in the early photos. Went to Mikado Logo 10, 520mm woodies and now have replaced them with some 500mm carbon "Z weave" blades from Hobby King. The flex of the Mikado blades limited the max collective pitch available while lifting the heli. The shorter Turnigy carbons are much (torsional) stiffer and hold true pitch much better. Difference in power consumed by the motor, under same battery pack and all other conditions, is over 270W more with the shorter carbons. Peaking at over 1500W now (have seen 1580) on a freshly charged 5S pack! That's in the power range same as a strong 46VR with an OS 50SX on board!!! The climb is 'adequate'


HHC

So many heli's - too little time...

07-17-2011 Over year old.
DougCart

Heliman

Port Charlotte, FL

Forgot how sweet the SR-X looks.

07-17-2011 Over year old.
PaulBowen

Senior Heliman

Australia.

They look super cool !!!

07-17-2011 Over year old.
badbill

Senior Heliman

Centerville, Georgia

Steve,
Thanks for your hard work assembling my new SR, I am tickled with it! The electric flew awesome, and my trade offer is still open :-)

Bill Davenport
AMA 28141

07-17-2011 Over year old.
badbill

Senior Heliman

Centerville, Georgia

BTW, kind of funny we both wore our HHAEFI shirts :-) Guess I have to build my NIB VR kit, eh?

Bill Davenport
AMA 28141

07-17-2011 Over year old.
heli_headcase

Key Veteran

Hovering around Atlanta

"Twins!"

Hey Bill,

When I processed the picture I looked close and noticed your T.

Thanks for the trade offer but I'm hangin on to this machine. I flew it half-a-dozen times today in my front yard testing blades and batteries. I'm SO comfortable with it - like wearing a well broken-in pair of shoes Maybe some day we'll work out some sort of deal and I'll make the conversion parts for you but I need a more complete set of machine tools (IE: CNC mill) first. My means of making my parts was too primitive and time consuming to ever want to do it the same way again. I'll post some pix of the parts-making process a little later. Got bunches to show.

Build the VR, or sell it off to someone needing parts. The SR-X has a better power-to-weight ratio given the same engine in each. The VR's better suited towards accepting a 50, lengthening the tail boom and hanging 600mm blades on it. Now you have a rocket! Need the lower (numerically) ratio clutch drive gear/counter gear set, 46 engine mount, and a Miniature 3/4" carbon boom (with custom torque tube drive parts) to make it all work. Or maybe convert it to e-power?


HHC

So many heli's - too little time...

07-17-2011 Over year old.
heli_headcase

Key Veteran

Hovering around Atlanta

Last post for tonight...

Thanks for your hard work assembling my new SR, I am tickled with it!
If you're happy, I'm happy If you see something on the heli that you think is a little strange or feel like making any changes (other than that light-weight battery), please contact me and let me know what it is you want to do. Everything I did in assembling and setting up your SR-X had a purpose.


HHC

So many heli's - too little time...

07-17-2011 Over year old.
badbill

Senior Heliman

Centerville, Georgia

Got some stickers on her.. that was fun. Been 20 years or so since I put decals on a Concept

Bill Davenport
AMA 28141

07-18-2011 Over year old.
heli_headcaseKey Veteran - Hovering around Atlanta -

Got some "Makeup" on...

All right Bill! Sorta wish the stickers were on it for the photo shoot. Oh well, next time.

Nothing new to report on the SR-XE other than 12 minute flights are very practical using the 5S 4500mAh battery pack. When the 6S 3700mAh packs are used I'll have to be careful and watch the power usage until I'm used to the new run times. Should have 300 more rpm on tap (1900) as compared to the 1600 being flown now.

The only real downside to the 1600rpm speed is the way the tail rotor has to work so much harder. I installed longer tail blades (than stock Kyosho) and it's a good thing I did. The torque output from this 1000Kv motor causes the tail rotor to put all its got into holding it when a full collective punch is commanded. Haven't lost the tail so far but you can just hear it straining.

6S packs, where are you?

Couldn't help myself - a little creative editing...


HHC

So many heli's - too little time...

07-18-2011 Over year old.
heli_headcaseKey Veteran - Hovering around Atlanta -

Motor Mount Details...

This thread seems to have stalled so here's something to give it a little push.

The single most difficult aspect of making this conversion was trying to come up with a way to use my existing metal-working tools to make parts that on more conventional machines would be no challenge at all. Case-in-point: the Motor Mounting Plate. I needed to create a part with an accurate width consisting of a given thickness and flanges along its sides. This meant starting out with a thick blank of aluminum and carving away over half of its thickness for a given internal width. The only practical way to do the carving is with a form of 'end mill', a cutting tool that resembles a twist drill but possessing far sharper side and end cutting edges. Generally stiffer than a drill too.

But I still needed to hold this piece of metal in such a way as to allow the cutter free access to a specific surface and to not be moved out of position while metal removal is taking place. The solution isn't obvious to most but I've had to think 'outside the box' many, many times while trying to create something unique. In this case, the key to holding this part in position is CA, or Super Glue.

Yes, I glued the motor-mount-to-be against the face of a prepared block of aluminum incorporating a shallow step with-which to accurately locate the blank piece in two axis: Height and Rotation.

The following pictures should tell the rest of the story.

The basic lathe setup using a milling vise attachment:

'Roughing' the major portion of the mount away. This had to be done slow as to not generate heat (CA is sensitive to high temperatures) or forces pulling the material toward the cutter.

The finish cut that gives the final look to the surface and also allowed for a somewhat large corner radius on the transition from the flat section to the sides.

With a light tap of a rawhide hammer, the glue easily let go its grip on the mounting plate. You can clearly see how the glue was into the round cutouts of the plate. This showed I had applied enough glue to give 100% coverage of the plate's surface. Soaking the plate in acetone did most of the work removing the glue and a belt sander did the rest.

Finished front surface...

...and back surface...


HHC

So many heli's - too little time...

07-22-2011 Over year old.
OuttaControl

Senior Heliman

Springfield, Missouri -United states

Concept

Very nice looking conversion Steve. Oh yeah, Petey's 100% again.

Mine fall down, went BOOM!!

07-25-2011 Over year old.
heli_headcase

Key Veteran

Hovering around Atlanta

Bird's the word...

Very glad to hear Petey's doing well. Was very concerned about his outcome.


HHC

So many heli's - too little time...

07-26-2011 Over year old.
heli_headcase

Key Veteran

Hovering around Atlanta

New Power!

Yesterday I took delivery of four 6S, 3700mAh 'Rhino' packs from Hobby King. I selected those based on the max size and weight available in a 6S pack seemingly able to fit in the Concept's battery compartment.

I really was hoping for a pack weight of slightly over 600g to get the heli's CG where it needed to be and the advertised weight was stated as 600. But when weighed, the packs all fell within 566-567g, not quite enough. Guess I'll be adding some supplementary dead-weight to move the CG forward. Size of the packs was good, will have to see how they perform.

Last Saturday I was able to fly the Concept in forward flight using the 500mm Turnigy carbon blades, still spinning the head at 1600rpm on the 5S, 4500mAh batteries. Whoa! A loop that was no problem completing with the 520mm Mikado woodies was almost the the cause of a total rebuild flying the 500's There just wasn't enough lift to support the G-loading at the loop's bottom and with only 2ft to spare (and an audibly straining power train), the SR-XE barely survived. I was MUCH MORE careful for the remainder of that flight and the two following. No more "butt clenching" situations after or since

I'm hoping the short (500mm) blades and the expected 1900rpm 6S pack speed will be a proper match and the heli will wake up and perform as it should. Will report back after the new 3700mAh packs are broken in and data logged.


HHC

So many heli's - too little time...

07-26-2011 Over year old.
heli_headcase

Key Veteran

Hovering around Atlanta

6S Success...

Finally had a short time period in which to check some numbers flying one of the 6S 3700mAh packs and in a straight-up collective punch was almost hitting the 2000W (1993W to be accurate) mark! I need to reduce the collective a little since now turning 1900rpm there's an abundance of lift.

But, for the 6 min of messing about, the data recorded in the ICE100 looked great. Motor KV, gear ratio, pack voltage and AH used all are a perfect combination for this airframe.

My one worry is the safety of spinning 91g blades at 1900 using the stock, plastic blade grips. There is a history of grip failure with the SR series when blades over 80g are pushed close to or beyond 2000rpm. Zeal metal grips are here waiting to be called to service and they WILL be installed before any aggressive flying is tried. Heck, even though the ESC is programmed for a max speed of 1900 its logger recorded a short excursion into the low 2000's while doing a rapid decent. Can't have this somewhat rare and unique bird 'grenade' now can I?


HHC

So many heli's - too little time...

07-31-2011 Over year old.
omcintyre

Heliman

Bundoran, Donegal, Ireland

great job

thanks for your post. would like to do the same to my old concept 30. nice job

11-21-2011 Over year old.
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Vintage Kyosho Concept 30SR-X E-Conversion...

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