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Mikado . Futaba-RC . HeliProz
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Radio - Spektrum DSM

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Spektrum's new DSMX

Smacka

Senior Heliman

PA

I am sure this topic has been beat to death BUT why not toss out a couple of comments...

1) As much as I would like to believe that as an Engineer my designs are without question...(yeah, I would like to believe that), that is why blueprints have revision boxes. The rev letter starts at NC (no change), then runs through the alphabet starting with "A" and ending with "Z". Once enough engineering orders have been processed and subsequent changes made, the rev letters start over with "AA", then proceed through the alphabet a second time, through rev "ZZ". I have seen rev letters "ZZ-10" in the Aerospace industry. Some letters are NOT used because they look too much like numbers, and can be mistaken in documents as such.

2) When Spectrum came to life, it was a Godsend (still is!). The 72-Mhz (I'll just use them as an example BUT there are more frequency bands) had one HUGE flaw. If two like frequency radios were turned on at the same time...OUCH! So, along comes 2.4-Ghz. This allowed pilots to fly with all due confidence so long as the initial electronics were set up correctly in the aircraft (remotes were kept away from the ignition and all three axes were covered). As it turns out, there was a small limitation that had not been fully explored OR conveyed with respect to "spectoral saturation". Major events such as IRCHA, Joe Nall and the like, brought about concerns of having so many radios on at all the same time. Part of what fed the confusion was the well publicized "100-planes in the air all at the same time" event.

3) So, radio manufacturers scrambled to engineer a fix. After a few key players put their heads together, we now have DSMX that channel hops to try to preclude "spectoral saturation" from becoming an issue. Good job with the quick fix! Normally, revisions to a mass market would take a lot more time and effort to have it approved, let alone released.

4) Are we done yet? Nope! Is DSMX now the new Godsend? Yep! Will it work flawlessly for many years to come? Possibly...but know this...there WILL be another revision down the road. As the current technology continues to evolve, changes will be made accordingly.

Does change make us nervous? You bet! BUT in this case, change is definitely good. I cannot wait to see how the bandwidths and frequencies continue to evolve to make our hobby as "carefree" as practical...

Happy Flying,
Smacka

02-10-2011 Over year old.
Busher

Key Veteran

Manchester, England

+1 Smacka

Good luck
Busher

02-10-2011 Over year old.
DS 8717

rrProfessor

Here wishing i was somewhere else

DSMX is not channel hoping.All 6000 and 8000 series recievers are DSMX.. What this whole thread boils down to is the problem at IRCA was the CD's fault for letting over 100 transmitters to be turned on.....just plain stupid.

YOU ONLY LIVE ONCE..IF YOU LIVE IT RIGHT THATS ALL YOU NEED

02-10-2011 Over year old.
Tyler

Elite Veteran

Chicagoland area

Hopping, shifting, agile...

In local pilot conversations, a common point has surfaced many times. Spektrum claimed that a stationary system was the best of all scenarios, they advertised it to be superior to any of the competitions shifting or hopping systems in every way. Local guys say they find it interesting that Spektrum is now using an agile system, which is not stationary, as their next level of security and performance. They find this interesting mostly because of all the mud slinging about moving technology when they weren't using it, but now moving technology, from their own mouths, is better, especially in crowded environments.

Moving forward and making progress is one thing, but following the example of "inferior technology" to do so is humorous.

Enjoy things that money can buy IF you don't lose the things money can't buy.

02-10-2011 Over year old.
HOMEPAGE  
jschenck

rrProfessor

La Vista, NE.

.All 6000 and 8000 series recievers are DSMX
Only the AR600 and AR8000 are DSMX.

The AR61xx, AR62xx and AR63xx series are DSM2

There are DSMX receivers announced already for those series such as the AR6115 but I don't think they've been released yet.

Team GrandRC

02-10-2011 Over year old.
DS 8717

rrProfessor

Here wishing i was somewhere else

Local guys say they find it interesting that Spektrum is now using an agile system, which is not stationary, as their next level of security and performance.
DSMX locks on 2 channels and stays there,this is why DSM and DSMX is compatable.

YOU ONLY LIVE ONCE..IF YOU LIVE IT RIGHT THATS ALL YOU NEED

02-10-2011 Over year old.
jschenck

rrProfessor

La Vista, NE.

MrMel checked with an analyzer and reports he sees DSMX IS channel hopping, just like Horizon says it is.

http://rc.runryder.com/helicopter/t...1/?p=5203939#RR

Team GrandRC

02-10-2011 Over year old.
jschenck

rrProfessor

La Vista, NE.

http://www.horizonhobby.com/DSMX/
It is a new, frequency agile evolution of Spektrum 2.4GHz technology that matches the consistently superior speed and data capacity of DSM2 with the most advanced frequency shifting algorithm to date.

Team GrandRC

02-10-2011 Over year old.
jschenck

rrProfessor

La Vista, NE.

http://www.spektrumrc.com/DSMX/
DSMX frequency shifts are coordinated using the most advanced FHSS algorithm ever seen in an RC application. Unlike other FHSS transmitters that all hop in the same fixed patterns, every DSMX transmitter has its own unique frequency shift pattern calculated using its GUID (Globally Unique Identifier). And each pattern uses just 23 channels in the 2.4GHz spectrum.

By adding the agility of unique frequency shifts to the superior interference resistance of a wideband signal, and limiting those shifts to a smaller portion of the 2.4 band, DSMX transmitters provide on-channel interference protection that is simply second to none. The result is quicker reconnection times and superb response in the noisiest 2.4GHz environment.

Team GrandRC

02-10-2011 Over year old.
Whatsaflybar

Heliman

PA

What this whole thread boils down to is the problem at IRCA was the CD's fault for letting over 100 transmitters to be turned on.....just plain stupid.
[quote]

Do you really think Spectrum(Horizon Hobby)told the guys in charge of IRCHA that they had a potential problem with DSM2? Horizon/Spectrum paid big money to be a platinum sponsor of that event.

All the larger events last year were reporting problems with DSM2. Spectrum was telling everyone that there was no problems and the crashes/lockouts were due to flight pack power systems etc.

Spectrum is now saying that 10 to 12 of there team pilots have been running and testing the new DSMX at the larger events last year and have reported no problems. If this is true,they new of a potential problem and put aside all safety issues at these events to continue sales. Now the question is, did they really test the systems at the larger events last year or did they just come up with a hopeful fix and going to let us test the system this year?

02-10-2011 Over year old.
Tyler

Elite Veteran

Chicagoland area

Whatsaflybar

Bingo!!

Enjoy things that money can buy IF you don't lose the things money can't buy.

02-10-2011 Over year old.
HOMEPAGE  
Busher

Key Veteran

Manchester, England

I am now struggling to see the point in the way this thread is progressing it is turning into "my radio manufacturer is better than yours"

Spektrum have just released an improvement to their radio system and the most seem annoyed and put out. Without these changes you would not see any improvement in your flying gear over the years to come. How long did we have 35/72mhz, and guess what, everybody thought their system was the best.
Spektrum were the pioneers of the system, without them we would still have crystals in the receiver and pegs on a board. their system is evolving and instead of slagging it off because other radio manufacturers are wondering how to develop their own way in the market, we should be grateful that someone is trying something new.

Good luck
Busher

02-10-2011 Over year old.
Smacka

Senior Heliman

PA

DSMX is not channel hoping
DSMX locks on 2 channels and stays there
No matter how many times you repeat yourself, these statements remain false!

I have watched all of the videos, including the one that shows a spectoral analyzer that clearly shows the movement(s).

I will no longer confuse your argument with facts...

Happy Flying,
Smacka

02-10-2011 Over year old.
TMoore

rrMaster

Cookeville, TN

What's a "spectoral analyzer"?

How is FHSS or "hopping" defined?

Current FCC regulations require manufacturers to use 75 or more frequencies per transmission channel with a maximum dwell time (the time spent at a particular frequency during any single hop) of 400 ms although there is an exception if the bandwith of the individual channels is over a certain width the hopping channels may be reduced.

If in fact a company states that their system is indeed a frequency hopping spread spectrum system the type acceptance data has to adhere to Part 15 of the standard and new Type acceptance applications will need to be filed with the FCC.

Here is a short Conclusion as to the differences between DSSS and FHSS referenced from this site: http://mobiledevdesign.com/hardware...o_dsss_vs_fhss/

"The proper choice of direct sequence or frequency hopping as a spread spectrum technique depends on the actual environment in which the system will be deployed. If there are narrowband interferers of moderate level, then a DSSS system that will completely reject them may be designable. Should there be any large interfering signals, then a DSSS link may completely fail while FHSS is likely to continue operating, even though the interference is not completely rejected."

Regardless of whose name is on the Tech, the bottom line is up until the release of the video there were no problems with DSM2. The video was released and now there are problems and this is how they are going to be addressed. If you leave the names out and just look at the situation it is very clear there was a problem that was constantly being denied and there are folks that participate on this forum and other forums that have seen the problem first hand with their own gear.

The situation is very clear if you look at the history. There were problems which up until the release of the video have been vehemently denied, the video comes out, OK you got us, we're admitting there were problems, they are being addressed and the bottom line is if you don't fly at large venues keep your old stuff, if you do, buy new stuff, everything we make going forward is the new stuff. There's no brands, no teams, no loyalties involved in that, just the situation. If you're comfortable with it no problem, if you're not, you do something else. No sense in bitching, it is what it is.

TM

02-10-2011 Over year old.
HOMEPAGE  
Smacka

Senior Heliman

PA

What's a "spectoral analyzer"?
Some call it a "Spectrum Analyzer"...

One in the same...

EDIT: Oh, I get it now. You were trying to make fun of me because it is Spectral and not Spectoral...

How childish...

02-10-2011 Over year old.
jschenck

rrProfessor

La Vista, NE.

couple probably use something like this but I wonder if you could just use an ipod with the right app installed

http://www.thinkgeek.com/gadgets/electronic/c240

This is a bit fancier though

Team GrandRC

02-10-2011 Over year old.
TMoore

rrMaster

Cookeville, TN

Smacka,

Don't read too much into the question. I wasn't making fun of you, just asking the question. I had never heard of a spectoral analyzer.

TM

02-10-2011 Over year old.
HOMEPAGE  
Whatsaflybar

Heliman

PA

Spectrum were the pioneers of the system, without them we would still have crystals in the receiver and pegs on a board. their system is evolving and instead of slagging it off because other radio manufacturers are wondering how to develop their own way in the market, we should be grateful that someone is trying something new[quote]

The only reason Spectrum was first is because they never fully tested the system like the others were doing at that time. And do you really believe they were the inventors of 2.4? The first Spectrum systems were not much more than 2.4 home Internet wireless system technology and used some of the same off the shelf components.

One thing I will give Horizon/Spectrum is that they have one of the best marketing departments in this hobby, that video on the new DSMX was amazing to watch and see how they twisted everything around to get guys to buy into the new system. It worked, guys in my club have the new DSMX JR radios on pre-order. These are the same guys that have had the last two series of Spectrum radios that has been released and have never been to one of the larger events to even have a problem.
Not sure if any of the other radio manufactures/distributors could have pulled it off. Great job guys!

02-10-2011 Over year old.
Smacka

Senior Heliman

PA

That Wi-Fi Spy would be a great little device to plug into a laptop at the flying field. For a nerd like me, it would give me a topic for discussion in between flights

02-10-2011 Over year old.
jschenck

rrProfessor

La Vista, NE.

I think I'll take my kids ipod flying with me the next time I go and see what it will see. Going to go look for 2.4Ghz analyzer apps.

Team GrandRC

02-10-2011 Over year old.
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Spektrum's new DSMX

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