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XHELI.COM . Autography FlightPower . Advantage Hobby

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Miniature Aircraft Nitro/Gas Helicopters > Done With Miniature!
 
 
Jeff Pfeifer
Senior Heliman
Location: Bolivar, MO

My Posts This: Topic  Forum
After this weekend at IRCHA I am done with Miniature! I was flying a Fury Expert that I have up graded to an Extreme except for the CNC Tail case, Which I was planning on upgrading to later when I had the extra cash after my student loan came in. Well I was doing a funnel about 10ft off the ground went to do a piroetting exit and heard this Zipp noise and the pirorate went through the roof! The Tail rotor gears In the tailcase Stripped out(which was a brand new set!)! All I could do is Hit hold and Watch it hit piroing Knife edge in to the ground. Henry Caldwell saw the crash and told me to take the tail up to Tim at Miniature and show him what happend. I talked to him and i felt like he was just looking at me like I was stupid. He said sorry about that, you need a cnc tail case and I give you a little off the parts! Well I put the pencil to it and it will still take me about $500 to get it going again! So the Fury is in the junk pile now, and done with Miniature. Don't get me wrong The Fury was one of the best heli's I've ever flown/owned, just didn't care for how they stood behind their product.
08-21-2003 Over year old.
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BladeStrike
Senior Heliman
Location: Shelby Twp, MI

My Posts This: Topic  Forum
Sorry to heard about that incident. My heli also went in at IRCHA. Still unsure why but I think the tail let go.

Maybe you can auction off the parts if you are not goiing to rebuilt it.
08-21-2003 Over year old.
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3DP
Heliman
Location: Marietta, GA

My Posts This: Topic  Forum
Do you loctite the bearings to both of the drive shafts? Your profile says you have an extreme, it should have a cnc gear box already. These gear boxes take a little extra work to maintain the proper gear mesh. Once it's set correctly, the gears will work just fine.
08-21-2003 Over year old.
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Jeff Pfeifer
Senior Heliman
Location: Bolivar, MO

My Posts This: Topic  Forum
Yup, Loctited to the shaft! The heli Was originally an expert, but has all the extreme parts except the tail case.
08-21-2003 Over year old.
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BIGRCR
Veteran
Location: Easley, South Carolina

My Posts This: Topic  Forum
I am sorry to hear that you had an unfortunate incident and am certainly sorry to hear that you feel this way. I would consider the offer by Tim generous as parts do fail, especially over time. Pilots these days do put the machines through a lot and as it sounds from your post, you were putting a good load on the machine. I have myself had a recent problem with the tail gears wearing on my X-Cell gas, but I was using a plastic tail box and the machine was being put through a lot of stress ( Henry Caldwell was flying it in fact ). The tail gears wore down fairly fast as the machine was being pushed very hard. I knew I needed a metal tail box to do such manuevers and so I am not upset about it. In your post you say that the tail box was not upgraded to "make" it into an Extreme, yet are upset when the unit fails. The Fury Extreme has a metal tail box for that very reason. The big block motors have more than enough power to make some standard parts fail. The Fury line has done the best job of evolving for the application of any helicopter in history. Most pilots like to add upgrades to their machines, but may not want to add neccessary parts required to do hard manuevers with the newly evolved technology (namely the big block motors).

The helicopter manufacturers would go absolutely broke if they replaced everyones parts/helicopters due to failures. Yes, parts do and will fail, but make sure that what you are flying can handle what you are asking of it. The older plastic tail boxes may not be able to take what we are dishing out these days!

Keep smiling, if possible.

.

BIGRCR- John Garst
08-21-2003 Over year old.
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Raffy
Elite Veteran
Location: Chicago, Illinois

My Posts This: Topic  Forum
I guess you are not a rep for them. No need to repair that one, just buy a NEW one.
Deathspiral - that's what happened!
08-21-2003 Over year old.
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angelob
Veteran
Location: Harvard, IL

My Posts This: Topic  Forum
On miniatures site, under "technical tidbits", the following is stated:

Tail Rotor

If you plan on using the Futaba GY601 gyro with your XCell helicopter, and your model isn't using the Extreme CNC aluminum T/R gearbox kit (part #120-50) we recommend you use it. The plastic tail rotor gearbox that is standard in some models, allows too much flex due to the heavy t/r loads that this gyro can induce. This flex results in problems with the t/r gears. The plastic gearbox seems to be acceptable with other gyros --------Todd Bennett---------

In your profile, it shows 502/601 for gyro choice - not sure which you are running. Sounds like the above technical tidbit should be a warning in the manual. Sorry to hear about your loss - I know I would cry if I put my Extreme in.

Angelo
08-21-2003 Over year old.
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pilotError
Key Veteran
Location: Long Island, NY

My Posts This: Topic  Forum
Not for Nothin

This tailbox just sucks. I don't fly extreme 3d, I have an expert w/ys61 and it did the same thing. I set it up following all the advice I could find and it still let go. The lame builder excuse is getting pretty old... How many other heli's out there do you have to check and re-check the tail gears every 2 months. I love the way it flies, was a pain in the ass to set up at first, but I got good at it. Only to have this happen...

I was just hovering with a second guy trying to get a head speed on it when it let go. Started heading toward the pits so I dumped it in Idle 1. Did the Asphalt dance of death.

I was so disgusted with it that it's been sitting there waiting for me to put it back together for the last 4 weeks. In the mean time I bought a Freya so I could fly without worry.

I spent about $285 w/out blades on this one, and I'm probably going to drop another $120 on the metal tailbox unless I can get a used one.

Anybody got a crashed Extreme they want to part with?

Mike...

Good Judgement comes from Experience. Great Judgement comes from Bad Experience.
08-21-2003 Over year old.
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sluggo
Elite Veteran
Location: Kitchener Ont

My Posts This: Topic  Forum
Sorry to here about your fury. I to lost a fury at ircha but thatwas me thumbed it in. I have talked to Tim many times and at ircha and he was always willing to help me out.

Maybe he had so many people bugging him that he just had enough that day. If I was you I would rebuild her with a metal tail box and fly it one more time and I bet you will change your mind!

Chris

P.S my ircha rebuild is up to $800.00ca and more to come

Wildcat fuels, Quick UK
08-21-2003 Over year old.
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Jeff Pfeifer
Senior Heliman
Location: Bolivar, MO

My Posts This: Topic  Forum
I was only running an OS 70, and a 502 gyro. As for the gears they only had about 10 Flights on them.
08-21-2003 Over year old.
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Jeff Pfeifer
Senior Heliman
Location: Bolivar, MO

My Posts This: Topic  Forum
I run my gain at 58% in Normal and 50% in Idle up. The other gears got damaged in a crash earliar in the season piro flips at -2inches don't turn out so well.
08-21-2003 Over year old.
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Jeff Pfeifer
Senior Heliman
Location: Bolivar, MO

My Posts This: Topic  Forum
With a head speed of 1450 in normal, and 1750 in Idleup.
08-21-2003 Over year old.
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mark fadely
Senior Heliman
Location: indianapolis, indiana

My Posts This: Topic  Forum
Deathspiral,

Sorry to hear about your tail failure and crash. That really sux. I have been flying the plastic tail box for 7 yrs now and I have never had a tail gear failure. I understand some guys have issues with the tail box and they usually voice them on these forums. I just wanted to let everyone hear from a guy that hasn't had problems. Early on in my flying of minair helis I learned about setup and maintenance of the tail box. One thing I've always appreciated about minair helis is the quality of their kits. I flew minair for years before I became a rep because I felt it was the best flying and highest quality heli on the market. No heli is perfect and there are going to be strong and weak points to every kit available. I take great care in setting up the tail box and I change the gears every 200 flights. Always make sure the box is full of grease. If you like the heli then I wouldn't let this turn you away from minair for good. It is frustrating and costly to have these things happen but I think it's a problem that can be overcome. Hope you change your mind.

mark fadely
08-22-2003 Over year old.
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furyextreme
Senior Heliman
Location: USA

My Posts This: Topic  Forum
Ditto here too, Mark

Been flying the stock plastic gear box on the fury for two and a half years with a 601 gyro and still have the same gears in it since new.
Absolutely no problem with the gears or plastic tail box.
And yes I constantly pirouette all the time when I am flying.
08-22-2003 Over year old.
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sluggo
Elite Veteran
Location: Kitchener Ont

My Posts This: Topic  Forum
Ignorance? Ya know, i had a reply but then I saw in your gallery that you fly a Fury.


Well if your RR nic is right then you really do not know what a good heli is so don't be offering up your Ignorance where it wasn't asked for.

Chris

Wildcat fuels, Quick UK
08-22-2003 Over year old.
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furyextreme
Senior Heliman
Location: USA

My Posts This: Topic  Forum
ouch
08-22-2003 Over year old.
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Dr.Ben
Elite Veteran
Location: Richmond, VA, USA

My Posts This: Topic  Forum
I've followed the problems that have sometimes occurred with the gears in MA models for years and years. In that time, I guess I've accumulated well over 250 gallons on the gear sets in only a few models. All with GY502's. I'm not even counting the countless hours on models since 1987 with other gyros. I've never had to replace gears with only a few flights on them. I have one set due to come out, but they have so many gallons on them that I'm embarassed to say how many. And they're speed up gears no less. Even back when Todd and Jason were flying the plastic tail cases on the early Fury (yes, with 60's, but harder than the vast majority of pilots ever will), they rarely, if ever had total gear failures. They did wear out sets, but never in ten flights to the best of my knowledge. Whether metal case or plastic, it's still pretty easy to set a BAD mesh that feels OK. It's especially easy to do in the plastic cases. I spend an hour or more setting the mesh in my plastic cases, often looking at the gears with magnification to ensure the teeth are set exactly square to each other. If one gear is set deep to the other, the resulting mesh will seem slop free, but it'll fail in a hurry. Then I grease the tail cases. Often. Frequently. A LOT. If all the shafts were indeed loctited to the shafts, I'd bet all my models that the gears weren't meshing squarely to each other. They just don't fail in that little time unless something in the set up was off to begin with, and especially if a 601 gyro isn't in use. Half off parts sounds like a nice offer to me.

Ben Minor
08-22-2003 Over year old.
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DS 8717
rrProfessor
Location: Here wishing i was somewhere else

My Posts This: Topic  Forum
New2helis:



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Quote:
Sell off your parts and buy a Predator and join us on the dark side. You'll soon be saying "MA who?"


You really are on the dark side,really dark....................

No Es Mi Culpa
08-22-2003 Over year old.
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steve9534
Key Veteran
Location: yakima, wa.

My Posts This: Topic  Forum
Fury

To all the MA apologists, I would say that there are other helis that don't require an hours worth of time just to set up the t/r gears. Not everyone, myself included, cares to invest that level of time or commitment to their hobby. If that's what is required to keep the Fury in one piece, then I'll stick to the Raptor, Freya, and Predator. Steve.
08-22-2003 Over year old.
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steve9534
Key Veteran
Location: yakima, wa.

My Posts This: Topic  Forum
Pete

Thanks for taking the time to reply. I really enjoyed getting the chance to meet you and watch you fly at IRCHA and have no interest to make any enemies over the Fury t/r gear box. It's just that this has been something of a weak link for years with the MA helis. I tore out my first set of gears more than 10 years ago and not much has changed with the design except the opportunity to spend another $100.00 or so for the metal tail box. It looks to me as if MA kind of dropped the ball with the Fury line in that they could easily have redesigned the tail and clutch and had a bulletproof, easy building heli. Instead they stuck with the same basic design and gear/clutch sizes that date from 1986. It's possible to make it work exceptionally well, but when I talked to Alan Szabo and he told me they just bolt their t/r gear box together. No shims, no Loctite, no fuss; then go fly like a mad man with a 91 and Gy601 and no failures, I have to believe there's a better way. Again great meeting you and FWIW, I've got a Fury in the box just waiting to be assembled, so it's not like I hate MA. Thanks. Steve.
08-22-2003 Over year old.
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Miniature Aircraft Nitro/Gas Helicopters > Done With Miniature!
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