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Gasser Model RC Helicopters > Benzin and GV-1
 
 
TVAILLANCOURT
Senior Heliman
Location: Edmonton Alberta Canada

My Posts This: Topic  Forum
Ok I finally got a GV-1 to control my head speed on my Benzin(getting bent main grips bolts.)
I'm kinda lost with the whole thing.
I have a basic 6 channel JR 652 and want to use the throttle stick to activate.
I have it flying fantastic with the throttle linkage, ATV and curve I have now now.(many hours of playing with linkage)
How do I add the GV-1 without changing my settings I have now.

The gov requires the ATV be set at or near 100.The throttle movement on the RC230 is very minimal from full open to full closed.
My ATV is like -16% low and +60% high to achieve this.I get an err reading when trying to set the idle,high,and stop settings because the ATV is not near 100.
I thought this was going to be easy or is it .
Anyone with a Benzin and GV-1 using throttle stick switching please let me know what you did to achieve the use of the GV-1 and back up curves.Thanks
07-18-2003 Over year old.
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1hander
Senior Heliman
Location: San Antonio, TX

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the problem is your idle and your stop are too close together so it doesnt recognize the diff....leave everything at 100, thry to calibrate, if it doesnt work run your idle highr and try again, if end up with your idle trim maxed and it doesnt work, turn your atv higher at the bottom of the throttle channel, turn yoiu idle trim back down and start again, you just need tyo get the spread drom idle to stop a little farther apart. then if it idles way to high you adjust your linkage ...thats how i did it

as far your main bolts bending, your running the head way too high, its the weight of blades pulling at the bolts thats bending them...slow it down, when you get the governor working, thatll fix that problem... be sure you put the correct gear ratio in there, if its wrong or iff you have the sensor mounted somewhere other than on the engine, itll throw a blade through the bolt, ive seen it happen...where do you have your sensor mounted...
rick g
07-18-2003 Over year old.
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smosher
Senior Heliman
Location: canada

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The GV-1 works great with the RC230 but the settings for the ATV's seems to be critical. I know that they have to be as close to 100% as possible. There is a thread somewhere (I can't find it) giving the exact measurements for the throttle servo ball link etc.

Check out this link - http://www.scalerchelis.com/forum/i...T&f=5&t=876&hl=

Todd was having the same problem. Got it fixed in the end.

BTW, the Stator Gator sensor he's mentioning in the link works great! I have two, one in a Benzin / RC230 and one in a G23, and they both work flawlessly. http://www.statorgator.com/

rick is right - keep that head speed down.
07-18-2003 Over year old.
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garyl
Senior Heliman
Location: taxachussetts

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Make sure your throttle curve % reads above 20% or the governor will not come on. I use my flight mode switch to turn the governor on. In normal mode I use my throttle curve. In filght modes 2 and 3 the governor is on, I make sure my throttle curves are above 20% in those flight modes. When it is setup like this you can just switch to normal mode if the governor fails. Works great in the Futaba 9C.
07-18-2003 Over year old.
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TVAILLANCOURT
Senior Heliman
Location: Edmonton Alberta Canada

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The sensor I'm going to use is the kill switch replacment sensor from stator Gator which will be arriving next week.
I'll move my ball closer to the output shaft on the servo and see what I get.Thanks for all the input people.
I'm aware that I'm getting bent bolts because the head speed is too high hence the purchase of a GV-1.I was going to buy metal grips for it but after waiting 2 months for them I cancelled and now going the GV-1 Route.
07-19-2003 Over year old.
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ImRich
Veteran
Location: Derry, NH USA

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Here are a few idea's for you.

Your current settings are -16 and +60. This tells me that your mechanical setup is not quite right. If you move the center of your servo and linkages over, even without making up for the too much throw (or travel) if you're -16 was set to zero, then your +60 would then become +76. That's closer in the right direction.

So what you need is less throw on your servo. So go in one hole on the servo horn. Set your ATVs to -100 and 100. If you still have too much throw, go in one more hole on the servo horn. If you need to change again, maybe go out one hole (or further from the pivot point on the carb throttle arm).

Get the throw correct, then center things. Make the center of the servo travel the point where your throttle is half open. Then your full low and full high on your throttle stick should go with the carb being full closed and full open. Oh, don't forget to set your trim and sub-trim to center (or zero) and your throttle curve to its default linear (0 at bottom, 50% at mid and 100% at full) before you start this!

If you have just a little too much or not enough throw, this is where you use the electronic ATV adjustments (and sub-trim) to make minor adjustments.

Get this correct and your system will work much better. This is important even without the GV-1 in the picture.

You should do similar exercizes for all controls, remember to use the electronic (computer) ATV adjustments as a fine tune, not to correct the basic setup errors. In general, be sure that at center of servo travel that your pushrods make a 90 degree angle with the control arm at each end.

Then go for the correct GV-1 setup. The governer won't turn 'on' until your stick is about 15% or higher. I have mine setup with my stock throttle curves all setup and working. This way the GV-1 is controlling the head speed, yet the throttle curves are there in case the GV-1 fails for some reason (this is a good safety net).

I got the GV-1 for the same reason. I wasn't bending bolts, but I was always wondering what my head speed was. I probably would have purchased a MinAir 'skytach', but they are not available. I figured the GV-1 would serve two purposes. 1) It would allow me to control the head speed, and take the guessing out of knowing my throttle curves are correct. and 2) It would allow me to run proper head speed without trying to have a friend 'drive' the skytach (which I can't purchace yet). So it's a win-win situation for me!!

I run 1500, 1600 and 1700 head speeds on my Gas X-Cell.

I see you ordered the stator-gator, you'll enjoy it! I used the magnets on the G-23 flywheel to trigger my GV-1.

The GV-1 is a wonderful tool. To me it's as useful as the heading hold gyro's.

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Rich
07-19-2003 Over year old.
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TVAILLANCOURT
Senior Heliman
Location: Edmonton Alberta Canada

My Posts This: Topic  Forum
ImRich,I moved the ball to the hole nearest the output shaft
I tried to do what you described("Set your ATVs to 0 and 100) but did not make sense too me the GV-1 calls for 100% high and low ATV.

Any how I now have -75 and +100 ATV servo center of travel = half throttle on the carb.
So I go to set the idle, high ,and stop limit setting, and it was accepted this time" set" however when I check it in the SWCd screen the GOV turns on 2 clicks up from the set stop position ???I'm stuumped with this thing..
I set the Lmt IDLE with the throttle trim tab to the top
I set the Lmt HIGH to the full throttle postion
I set the Lmt STOP with the throttle trim tab fulled closed.
So how do I go about setting the GOV to turn on at half throttle???
Thanks
07-19-2003 Over year old.
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ImRich
Veteran
Location: Derry, NH USA

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Oops.. my mistake! By 0 and 100 I meant 0 and 100 % of servo postion! So that would be -100 and +100 ATV! You figured out what I meant though! I went back and edited that post so I won't confuse anyone else!

With -75 and +100 it shows me that you are still not mechanically centered on your servo and carburator mechanical throws. If you are on the hole closest to the servo shaft, then you need to go out one hole on the carburator arm. You may even need a longer arm (if you have room for it). If you don't what you have will work, but see if you can get it closer to -100/+100. You should move your servo arm spline or two over to center the throw. Remember to get the carb 50% open when the servo is at half travel. To do this, be sure your throttle curve is set linear! If you like, write down all your current curve setttings, then set your throttle curve back to it's default straight line settings of 0 at the bottom, 50% mid stick and 100% for full stick. Also remember to have a 90 degree angle at both ends of the pushrod and the control arm. That's at the servo control arm and the throttle control arm.

Why do you want the governor to turn on at half throw of the throttle stick? On my X-Cell it turns on about 1/4 to 1/3 throttle. This seems to work fine for me and holds the govenor controlling the head speed though most of my flying in normal mode. In Idle-up 1 and 2 the throttle servo output is never below 20% so the governor never is disabled throughout the throttle range (which is what I want).

The governor will turn on depending on how your throttle curve is set.

If you want to confirm this, try the following. First write down all your 'normal' throttle curve settings so you wont lose them.

Then, set them all to the default straight line settings so that low stick is 0, half stick is 50% and full stick is 100% (I hope you did this when you set your mechanical throw also, but it's not as important as long as you were using 0 for the bottom, 50% for the mid, and 100 for the top points on the curve).

Now go back and check where your GV-1 will enable. It will probably be where the stick goes to 15% or 20%. But not at half.

Remember, from the GV-1's point of view, it doesn't know where the throttle stick is positioned, it knows where the throttle servo is being commanded to be positioned. This is controlled by the settings in the transmitter including ATV,AFR,Trim, sub-trim, throttle curves, and any mixing or other items which will affect the throttle servo output of the receiver.

On my transmitter I also programmed a switch to be able to disable the governor, this allows me to check my back-up throttle curves. I switch off the governor and listen for a change in head speed. It's a nice tool.

As a final note, if you really want your GV-1 to enable at half stick, then you need to change the throttle curve so that the servo output goes to about 15% at half stick. This would not be adviseable!! You want the proper throttle curve setup in case the GV-1 fails for some reason (a sensor failure, etc). When the GV-1 failes, it has a fail-safe of using the throttle position as commanded by your transmitter. If you don't have the proper throttle curve setup, you may not have a safe landing !

Oh, that reminds me! If you have a PCM receiver, be sure that your throttle fail safe setting is to place th throttle below the 15% point so that the GV-1 will be disabled if you lose your signal. You can test this by shutting off your transmitter and watching that the GV-1 shows OFF in the SWCd screen.

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Rich
07-19-2003 Over year old.
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TVAILLANCOURT
Senior Heliman
Location: Edmonton Alberta Canada

My Posts This: Topic  Forum
Thanks for clearing that up.Well I'm getting close.I was a little confused about the term "turn Gov on".
I was under the impression that when the Gov is turned on the engine will crank up to the set head speed.Mine turns on at half throttle trim so I thought it was going to crank up the head speed right after I pulled the start cord. That is why I thought I needed to set the on position at half throttle.This is not going to happen correct.The gov is on but will not take over until somewhere around 70% of the set head speed.Correct.

A few more hours and I think I'll have it
Thanks for all you help.
07-19-2003 Over year old.
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ImRich
Veteran
Location: Derry, NH USA

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Well, be sure the govenor won't show "ON" until your throttle stick is about 10 or 20% up! Not the throttle TRIM!

Yes, the governor will try to get the head speed to the set RPM when it shows ON. So be careful! You don't want that to happen until you start moving the collective (throttle) stick up!

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Rich
07-20-2003 Over year old.
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TVAILLANCOURT
Senior Heliman
Location: Edmonton Alberta Canada

My Posts This: Topic  Forum
Gear Ratio 85:23 Benzin standard ccpm

Ok everything is set up for the Gv-1 I just installed the Stator GGS-23-RC sensor very easy(thanks Fidman).
Now just to confirm my gear ratio 85:23 so Is that 6.71 I need to enter?
07-23-2003 Over year old.
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Naomi
Elite Veteran
Location: Ontario, Canada

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Edit.. from BilMe
Quote 

Heli- Gal,

No, the 90, 18 will provide a slower headspeed...Its for the big 800mm blades...Its a 9.0 ratio

The 85/23 is for the 725's..Its 6.5 ratio ruffly

Naomi
07-23-2003 Over year old.
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Moore
Senior Heliman
Location: California 93094-0940

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Yep

85:23 = 6.71
07-23-2003 Over year old.
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TVAILLANCOURT
Senior Heliman
Location: Edmonton Alberta Canada

My Posts This: Topic  Forum
All right then thanks.All set to test tomorow
07-23-2003 Over year old.
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TVAILLANCOURT
Senior Heliman
Location: Edmonton Alberta Canada

My Posts This: Topic  Forum
So who's right here???

Hmmmmmmmm well that's why I put it out there but now I have 2 different numbers so What now who's right.

Ok who is flying a Benzin standard gear ratio of 85:23 and what did you enter into the GV-1?
I thought this was going to be a straight forward answer but I guess there is more than one way to figure out the ratio.
07-23-2003 Over year old.
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TVAILLANCOURT
Senior Heliman
Location: Edmonton Alberta Canada

My Posts This: Topic  Forum
OK then the final answer is 6.71 done.Thanks.
07-23-2003 Over year old.
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ImRich
Veteran
Location: Derry, NH USA

My Posts This: Topic  Forum
It sounds like you finally got your throttle mechanically setup properly.

Good luck! I know I really like my GV-1.

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Rich
07-23-2003 Over year old.
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garyl
Senior Heliman
Location: taxachussetts

My Posts This: Topic  Forum
I have made up an Excel spread sheet with the ratio calculations for the benzin mechanics. It incluces the head speed vs. motor speed and tail rotor speeds. You can also put in your own gearing setup and it will automaticaly recalculate the other numbers. Email me if you would like a copy.
Gary.Legee@KAZ.Com
07-23-2003 Over year old.
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ImRich
Veteran
Location: Derry, NH USA

My Posts This: Topic  Forum
Alexander,

You bring up an interesting point. I hadn't even thought about trying to inhibit stick switching. I guess my initial thought was that if I did, I would have to manually enable/disable the governor when starting the engine.

I may play with that later, but my GV-1 is working well for me now.

So by disabling stick switching, how does the GV-1 pick it's enable point on the throttle stick? Are you saying that is uses the idle point which you set? So if you go below the idle limit, but not down to the throttle closed setting it will dissengage?

On another GV-1 topic, has anyone started to document what all the 'hidden menu' parameters control??

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Rich
07-23-2003 Over year old.
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TVAILLANCOURT
Senior Heliman
Location: Edmonton Alberta Canada

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GV-1 and Stator

I have test flown my gasser with the GV-1 and Stator sensor.All went well after a few adjustments.
My question is this.I have the Gov set to turn off at full throttle.Will the Gv-1 still track the max rpm with it in the off position at full throttle??
Do most GV-1 user's have the GV-1 turned off at Full throttle??

Oh and Fidman23(Tom) Stator worked out fine everything reads correct I double checked with my Optical tack and it's bang on the Rpm set in the GV-1.
The only thing I'm have an issue with is if I advance the throttle too quickly while spooling up the Heli acts as though the clutch is slipping.The head speed slowly builds up to it's set speed.Is this normal??When the GV-1 is off it spools up quickly.Thanks
07-26-2003 Over year old.
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