RunRyder RC Helicopter Topic - GV-1 Help!!!

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Radio - Futaba FASST > GV-1 Help!!!

bart2546
Senior Heliman
Location: Canal Winchester, OH - USA

My Posts This: Topic Forum

Ok here's the deal: I flew 3 tanks today, no issues. I start to spool up for my 4th tank and as soon as the GV 1 kicked in it took the head speed up so high the heli was shaking and looked like it wanted to blow apart. The other tanks flew fine then I don't know what happened. I went through all the settings and they are all the same as before. My TX settings are the same also. I checked the carb, it's tight and clean. All fuel lines are new. the sensor is picking up signal as I can see the RPMs at idle.

I also cannot shut the gov. off. When I go to SWPt and turn it off, the SWCd still turns to on when I go above 20 percent throttle. I want to test it with the gov off just to make sure that's the issue and I can't.the throttle servo goes where it's supposed to but the head speed is just scary, something is totally wrong.

My bird is a Rex 600 and a Futaba FASST T7C with an OS 50 hyper.

Please help. Neither of the experienced pilots I talked to had heard of this happening.

Regards, Brandon

11-08-2009 10:27 PM

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Ots
Senior Heliman
Location: Glendora, CA - USA

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Reset your idle - high - stop making sure the throttle curve in norm goes from 0 to 100.

I assume you fly in stunt. Make sure your stunt 'V' curves are high enough to be above the 'idle' setting mentioned above, but not so high that your headspeed will go to the moon if the gov fails. That is, they should be set so you can fly with them without a gov.

Oh, one other thing. Make sure the correct plug is inserted into AUX 2. I assume you are using a 7 ch receiver. If the 'other' plug is in AUX 2 then it won't respond to a switch - only the stick.

11-08-2009 10:51 PM

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bart2546
Senior Heliman
Location: Canal Winchester, OH - USA

My Posts This: Topic Forum

Thanks for the response. The thing is, it was working fine for 3 tanks this time and 2 other flying days. Nothing has been moved or changed. I am flying in normal mode with a headspeed set at 1650. That extra aux plug is not plugged in to anything and it was responding to the throttle stick just fine before this last tank.

The throttle curve is linear at 25, 50, 75, 100. I'm stumped. It's like it isn't controlling the headspeed but it is at the same time, just way to high.

If I turn SWPt to off that is supposed to disable the governer isn't?

Regards, Brandon

11-08-2009 11:25 PM

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Bob Wales
Veteran
Location: Lebanon CT

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Turn your fan and see what you are getting for sensor readings.

11-09-2009 01:17 AM

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bart2546
Senior Heliman
Location: Canal Winchester, OH - USA

My Posts This: Topic Forum

I'm getting readings all the way up to 56-58%. (I don't have the patience to turn it slower to see if it goes up from there.) Per the manual, it says it should be 60% but, the sensor is also not mounted like the manual says, it's mounted by 2 little screws on the main frame, not up from the motor mount.

Regards, Brandon

11-09-2009 02:05 AM

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Ots
Senior Heliman
Location: Glendora, CA - USA

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I get 97% sensor reading.

It looks like you've got intermittent gov functioning due to poor sensor strength values.

Reposition the sensor until you have "good" readings. Yeah, 60% is the bottom, but I would never settle for less than 80%.

11-09-2009 04:14 AM

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tadawson
Elite Veteran
Location: Lewisville, TX

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Concur. Most likely it is seeing enough pulses to think things are OK, but missing enough that it is advancing the throttle trying to compensate. I too have never seen/had a GV-1 that didn't hit 97% or so on the sensor - if I only got 57% or so, myself, I would consider the sensor broken, never mind what the manual says. Most likely, the sensor just shifted a little from vibration between flights and you went from barely marginal sensor pickup below marginal - not low enough to drop it out, but low enough to cause problems.

Take the time to check it correctly - it's not like it's that hard or time consuming!

- Tim

The more I touch electrics, the more I grow to hate them . . . .

11-09-2009 04:20 AM

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Bob Wales
Veteran
Location: Lebanon CT

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I will have to recheck the manual I thought it needed a reading of either 66 or 67 to function properly.

11-09-2009 08:44 AM

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spiacro
Senior Heliman
Location: Athens, Greece

My Posts This: Topic Forum

I agree with reposition of the sensor. I get 97% reading too.

Quote
I want to test it with the gov off just to make sure that's the issue

Test the heli without GV-1. Bypass it completely.

What governor's lead you use? The AUX on/off or the AUX rpm?

Spiros

Engine is the HEART of an r/c model, but THE PILOT is it's SOUL.

11-09-2009 10:42 AM

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bart2546

Senior Heliman - Location: Canal Winchester, OH - USA - My Posts This: Topic Forum

It would be AUX RPM as my first AUX connection is not connected to anything. I had set it up per Finless Bob when I got it and it was working fine. I think it is going to be a pain in the butt to move the sensor, I'm going to try to find a picture that shows where it is:

It's supposed to go on with one of those metal brackets by the motor mount, (this picture was taken from Google, not my heli) but mine is attatched by 2 small bolts/nuts through the airframe right behind where the lower servo wheel is shown in this picture. I really have no way to access it without tearing it apart.

So what do I do, try to relocate/redrill holes for the sensor or try to move the magnet which is supposedly on the fan somewhere?

Thanks for everyones help!

Regards, Brandon

11-09-2009 11:21 AM

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Bob Wales
Veteran
Location: Lebanon CT

My Posts This: Topic Forum

Yes you are going to have to pull it apart to straighten it out.
My model wasn't as easy as everyone else's either to try and get to the 97% mark.
Take your motor back out and adjust the magnet as close as you can get it to the fan.
One 600 that I have I was able to hit the 97% mark and the other I could only get 87%.
If you can get your sense value in this range you will be fine.

11-09-2009 02:07 PM

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bart2546
Senior Heliman
Location: Canal Winchester, OH - USA

My Posts This: Topic Forum

Thanks for the reply. I'll be trying this tonight and I'll update with the results. I don't even know where the magnet is so it should be interesting. I'll let everyone know. Thanks again!

Regards, Brandon

11-09-2009 02:14 PM

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spiacro
Senior Heliman
Location: Athens, Greece

My Posts This: Topic Forum

Do you engage the GV-1 via a single switch or do you activate idle up 1 or 2 on your Tx?

When you connect the GV-1 with (AUX rpm) lead, you can see the "on" or "off" state of the governor through the SWCd menu. Set the SWPt to off. If you have it set on a 2 position switch, then you have 2 rS speeds on GV-1, depending on the position of the switch. When the switch is off, the GV-1 must show rS1 -off-. And when the switch is on, the GV-1 must show rS3 1650. If you see rpm's on both rS1 and rS3, then you will have to reprogram the rS1 speed to off (when the switch is off), delow 1000 rpms. If the StSw is INH then the GV-1 will not be disabled when you move the collective stick to the lower position and you have to switch off the governor through the switch. All the above is in the case that you have activated the GV-1 via a single switch.

Spiros

Engine is the HEART of an r/c model, but THE PILOT is it's SOUL.

11-09-2009 02:23 PM

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bart2546
Senior Heliman
Location: Canal Winchester, OH - USA

My Posts This: Topic Forum

No, mine is activated via the throttle position (above 20%). So, per the video I watched, the SWPt is supposed to be set to "On" since I don't have the extra AUX on/off lead connected to anything and it has to think that the switch is on all the time. Either way, for now, I've turn the normal mode down to -Off- (so below 1000 rpms) for a test and I'm going to pull the engine and re-adjust the magnet position and see if that works. I am going to almost bet that it does because I cannot see or find ANY other reason why it would not work after 3 flights of being fine other than vibration moving the magnet.

Regards, Brandon

11-09-2009 02:49 PM

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Bob Wales
Veteran
Location: Lebanon CT

My Posts This: Topic Forum

The magnets are located on the fan and make sure that the polarity is opposite as well.
One north pole and the other south pole.
If this is not done correctly it will not work either.

11-09-2009 05:26 PM

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bart2546
Senior Heliman
Location: Canal Winchester, OH - USA

My Posts This: Topic Forum

Ok, I cut a bigger hole in the fan shroud and was able to move the sensor down to approx. 1/16th inch away from the line of the magnets. You litterally could not move the magnets anywhere either, they were at the VERY edge of the fan. Anymore and you'd put them hanging over so the sensor itself had to be moved. The fan shroud though was blocking the sensor from being moved down anymore.

Put it all back together, now I get a 97% reading. I tried to spool it up really quick to test it but I couldn't tell for sure as it was late and I didn't want to really run it but I have a slight feeling it may not have worked. I'll test tonight when I get home from work. I DO know that when I turned it off, it operated as it was supposed to so whatever is acting up with it, is definitely in the sensor/governor and I would be sensor period as nothing else malfunctions.

Regards, Brandon

11-10-2009 11:15 AM

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spiacro
Senior Heliman
Location: Athens, Greece

My Posts This: Topic Forum

If you have 2 magnets installed, you must getting sensor reading (97% for example) only from one magnet. When the other one passing below sensor you must get a 10% or lower reading. That means that the magnet's polarity is ok. If you have only one magnet, then is ok. I am starting to believe that something goes wrong with the governor's programming. Waiting for your test results.

Spiros

Engine is the HEART of an r/c model, but THE PILOT is it's SOUL.

11-10-2009 12:07 PM

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bart2546
Senior Heliman
Location: Canal Winchester, OH - USA

My Posts This: Topic Forum

I do have 2 magnets. I only get the 97% when one of them passes. The other I think I get about 2 or 3% at the most. I've run through every single mode and double checked the settings in the governor, they're all the same as they were when it was working fine.

Like I said though, I will test it this evening when I can truly tell if it's too fast and will update with that. If it's still wacky I'll take a picture of each setting on my GV-1 & transmitter and if I can a short video. Thanks to everyone for all the help so far. Couldn't have known where to begin without your help.

Regards, Brandon

11-10-2009 01:17 PM

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bart2546
Senior Heliman
Location: Canal Winchester, OH - USA

My Posts This: Topic Forum

Ok, test results:

Spooled it up and it seems like it is ok. It might be a LITTLE bit higher but I have no tach to verify for sure AND since it was at my home I was closer to it than I would be at the field and it just might be perception. HOWEVER, it did not violently shake or rattle and I was able to lift it off the ground.

Everything seems in order save for one final question:

Is it normal for it to pick up some speed and THEN the GV-1 kick in and regulate the speed? What I mean is as I approach the half-throttle point (already over the governor kick in point of 20%) it seems like it picks up speed as if it were following the normal throttle curve if there were no governor attatched. Then you hear it slow down the head speed to where it seems it should be with it being regulated by the GV-1. OR should it be automatically be keeping it at 1600 RPMs from the get go? (1600 is where I have it set at for normal mode).

Again, I do know it's something to do with the governor as I tried it in normal mode with the GV-1 shut down and it functioned as normal so if the above question is that no it should not perform like that, then my next step I believe is to get a new sensor. Thanks in advance as always!

Regards, Brandon

11-10-2009 10:46 PM

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fritzthecat
Key Veteran
Location: Virginia Beach, VA

My Posts This: Topic Forum

The GV needs to be within ~10% of the set rpm for it to "capture" the rotorspeed. So while it may turn ON at 20% throttle, it will not govern the speed until the rpm are increased to match the rpm set in the GV. Until it captures, the Throttle Curve is in control.
The GV is also a little slow in matching the rpm. That is why you get a little over or under speed at initial capture.

Fritz

'Send Money, Women and Guns!'

11-11-2009 12:30 AM

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