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Aerial Photography and Video > Big Cartography job HELP
 
 
UHC - PORTUGAL
Senior Heliman
Location: LISBOA

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		Hello All,

We need help and sugestions from all gurus here!!!

We have been contacted today by a huge Portuguese SIG/Cartography production company requesting us to shoot in March 2010, 114 areas of about one acre each extending from all Portuguese territory.

The areas are all old quarries (Quarries i think is the correct name,.. old exploitations of stone)

The areas are atractive for our tools, however is a huge job and must be completed in two months and they request,...

When we take the shoot we must know the exact positon were the camera is (Altitude and position) Sugestions???

Coordinate Information on the ground. (here i thought about using two flags already identificaded by gps)

Camera must be exactly shooting downwards. Sugestions to acchieve the best precision??

About the exact tool to complete the mission!

We are now using 3 helicams,.. two copterfilms (Coptercam III) and one robbe cuatro with a photohigher mount. All glow. We have Helicoomand 3D in one of the birds! In Saudi Arabia we have used one blimp,... but here in these misssion, i think all is trash!!!

Sugestions?? We need to climg high, safe and we must have a reliable tool that can shoot all day as we have 114 areas two shoot is two months.

Should we go gas with a helicommand profi o dj unit istalled?
or
Should we go with a blimp? (Wind here can be a problem and also puting the camera shooting exactly dowards can be a hard task in a blimp)

or Sould we go for a combined solution blimp/ our equipemnts or even a gas bird?

or should we say no to these mission?

Additionaly if any of you feel confortable with these kind of mission or already have done simmilar, please PM me! If we ge the job I am open to bring one of you here to Portugal to help!

Thak you all!

Regards,

Jose Manuel Marques - WWW.UHC.PT
11-04-2009 10:50 AM
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cranester
Key Veteran
Location: Bogota, Colombia

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		Jose, an acre is about 4000square mts, thats not too big, yo can do that with a heli no problem. If it is equipped with a a dji and you use an OSD for registering the altitude and coordinates it would be very easy to do.

You can probably frame this area in one shot(orthogonal), unless you need higher resolution, then you need to do several passes at lower altitude.

A DJI and a good OSD is all you need


I did this some months ago,

The area is several acres:




Juan Crane

Juan Crane
11-04-2009 11:27 AM
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cranester
Key Veteran
Location: Bogota, Colombia

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		This OSD will do the job:



Juan Crane
11-04-2009 01:20 PM
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Seablade
Key Veteran
Location: floating around

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		Here is an online store in Spain that has a good selection of OSD units including Eagle Tree.

http://alai.h3m.com/~s0350672/catal...php?cPath=43_63

"Vini, Vidi, Velcro"
11-04-2009 01:52 PM
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GyroFreak
Elite Veteran
Location: Florida ... 28° 52' N 81° 16' W

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		Nice. Keep us posted on how it goes. Thanks

Bacteria They're the only culture some men have
Growing old is mandatory; growing up is opti
11-04-2009 01:59 PM
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rerazor
Elite Veteran
Location: Mich.

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		I sent you a PM

Robert
N.A. DJI Distributor
11-04-2009 02:23 PM
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Gardo
New Heliman
Location: Halmstad, Halland - Sweden

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		cropcam
11-04-2009 04:57 PM
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UHC - PORTUGAL
Senior Heliman
Location: LISBOA

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		Thank you all for the inputs

I missed the osd solution! Thank you cranester!

I will reply to all PM´s! The cropcam could be a solution also but the costumr requires higher quality, and with the cropcam you can only fly small point and shoot cameras!

At the moment wath scares me more is the fact that we must choose a realy realiable equipement, and maybe have 2 teams in the field, as we need to shoot 114 areas in two months,... it is too much,... if something fails it will be a disaster. Maybe 2 or 3 helis ready always!

Tomorow i will send the quotation for the cotumer, and if we get the job one of you will be here working with us in a second team!

Will keep you all informed!

Best regards,

Jose Manuel Marques - WWW.UHC.PT
11-04-2009 08:31 PM
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Griffo
Veteran
Location: Melbourne / Canberra, Australia

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		Use a full scale chopper or fixed wing with GPS logger on your camera. You don't want to mess around with a job like this so plan your jobs out properly and you'll be able to knock it over in no time.
11-05-2009 12:43 AM
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ehx
Senior Heliman
Location: Northern Minnesota

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		One acre is only ~64 meters on a side (if square) so that's no problem for a RC heli.

Since the company does professional mapping it looks like you will just be providing the photos and they will be creating accurate maps. It depends on exactly what they want to do, but typically the accuracy requirements for camera position and any ground control coordinates are at a whole different level then your typical OSD system. You need decimeter to centimeter-level accuracy, not the meter or two or three your typical OSD system will provide. Carrier-phase differential GPS systems are typically used to provide camera X,Y,Z to better than 5 cm. The same system is used for ground control to similar or better accuracy.

Again I don't know just what product they want to create, but if they are going to pay you to shoot 114 quarries with the requirements you mentioned I assume they will be making orthophoto and/or 3D maps of the quarries. If so, any coordinates you provide will be worthless for the mapping process unless they are decimeter-level or better. An accurate (meter-level or better) digital terrain model will have to exist for the quarry (possible) or you will be shooting stereo imagery so they can create one. As for the photos being perfectly vertical, that's really not that critical as long as they are close. Five degrees off doesn't matter that much. Twenty plus would. The point is that manually leveling the camera before flight - potentially adjusting for any reasonable wind - is good enough. High gusts would be the only time camera stabilization would be really necessary.

I've done similar work for years and could go on and on, but without the exact requirements it's a bit pointless. The best thing you can do is talk to the actual technician/engineer at the company who will actually work with the imagery and see just what s/he wants.
11-05-2009 03:01 AM
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CoastalTom
Senior Heliman
Location: Foley, AL (7 miles N of Gulf Shores/Orange Beach)

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		I agree with Griffo. Full-scale is the best way to do this job. Rent a plane and pilot (or chopper) and hang out the window.

Tommy Patterson - Gulf Coast Aerials
11-05-2009 03:00 PM
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UHC - PORTUGAL
Senior Heliman
Location: LISBOA

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		I desagree with both of you griffo and coastal tom. Here is a good opportunity for our R/C / UAV systems, because we are talking about small areas that we can easy cover.

The areas are also very spread, and with a full scale you will need to fly a lot of hours in order to shoot all of them. In other words i´m shure that our price can be lower than full scale in this particular case. The flexibility of our systems can also be an advantage providing in some poits a better service to the costumer.

Regards,

Jose Manuel Marques - WWW.UHC.PT
11-05-2009 04:45 PM
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Griffo
Veteran
Location: Melbourne / Canberra, Australia

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		Hehe, I used to think the same way. Now I only shoot these jobs from full scale.

Best of luck, I really hope it works out for you.
11-05-2009 09:28 PM
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Panos
Senior Heliman
Location: Syros Island - GREECE

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		I realy would like to see a comparison example (fullscale vs rc) of (price for the customer)/(costs, investment for the contructor) for such a job. IMHO this is the core question to be answered. Technicaly I am sure a well equipped UAV (rotor or fixed wing)can do the job. Anyway this seems like a challenging project guys. I wish all the best.
11-05-2009 10:07 PM
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cranester
Key Veteran
Location: Bogota, Colombia

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		It's a challenging project allright, but those are the cool ones!
And also I'm sure it's alot more expensive from a full scale, at least over here it is.

Juan Crane
11-05-2009 10:15 PM
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Griffo
Veteran
Location: Melbourne / Canberra, Australia

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		I think the big question will be output quality and xyz position accuracy. Clients pay big bucks to have the best of both.

Quote 
The best thing you can do is talk to the actual technician/engineer at the company who will actually work with the imagery and see just what s/he wants.

This is excellent advice.
11-05-2009 10:49 PM
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CoastalTom
Senior Heliman
Location: Foley, AL (7 miles N of Gulf Shores/Orange Beach)

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		Friendly debate.

Would the 114 sites require driving to and flying the heli at each site? That would be a lot of time if that's the case.

How close are the 144 sites to each other?

Plane & pilot rental goes for about $175/hr here. I can shoot a lot of targets in an hour given the proximity of each target.

Tommy Patterson - Gulf Coast Aerials
11-05-2009 11:03 PM
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PhotoShip One
rrAdvertiser
Location: Arizona & Taiwan

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		I'm with Coastal and Griffo here. I recently had to shoot 37 location in the Phoenix, AZ area. I managed to get them all shot in 4.8 hours of time in a Bell 206 Jet Ranger in one day (stopping for fuel and bathroom break of course). If I had to use an RC chopper it'd have taken me at least 7-10 days with all the driving and staging.

If it were just a couple sites I'd say try for the RC heli/airplane but with 114? I sure think it's most cost effective to use a full scale helicopter.

DJ

Design Team - PhotoShipOne
11-05-2009 11:23 PM
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ehx
Senior Heliman
Location: Northern Minnesota

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		Given the small area (~1 acre) to be covered you really want an aircraft that can hover be it manned or unmanned. Have you ever tried hitting that small of a target from a manned fixed-wing aircraft? It's very difficult to just get only the area of interest - and you lose resolution if you cover a much bigger area in one shot. Manned fixed-wing isn't a good option.

As for a manned heli versus a RC one, that would depend on travel time and cost differences between sites going by land or air. It's possible a manned heli ends up being cheaper, but what makes the RC heli the likely best bet is the requirement for some ground control data. You have to visit the sites by land for this no matter what.

Maybe you can get a good daily or even a week rate for the manned chopper and they will land at each site to let you collect ground control, but if the company requires highly accurate camera coordinates as mentioned in the first post you will need to add at least one carrier-phase capable GPS receiver and antenna to the heli plus some other electronics. Doing this isn't that hard. I've done it to various Long Rangers, but will the heli company/pilot like the idea? Much easier to modify the heli you own (the RC one)
11-05-2009 11:27 PM
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