RunRyder RC Helicopter Topic - Radikal 20 FYI

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Century Hawk - 50NX - Raven - Predator > Radikal 20 FYI

Billme
Elite Veteran
Location: MS

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I'm starting this thread for the purpose of helping those with their new Radikal 20 ...This is a new engine and is user friendly, but a little different from the bigger engines for as tuning...

Throttle arm setup on mine is with the arm at the top of the carb, and pivots equally in each direction...You may have to adjust your idle speed needle to allow for equal movement on the low throttle setting.

At low throttle, low trim, your servo arm should be in line with the control rod pointed straight back ....At high throttle, your servo arm will be in the 5:30 or 5 o'clock position looking directly at the servo..
The engine should start at half trim

For break in I use a petro base oil mixed no leaner than 32:1.. Run this as soon as you notice more top end power about the end of two gallons...That is a lot of flying with this engine...No hard continuous but good sport flying till its broke in....

I let mine idle for about 15 mins, and then run it on the ground at a good hover rpm unloaded for the rest of the tank on its first start..

You should start out on the needles at 13/8s on the low, and 11/2 on the high if you are not using the velocity stack..
If you do use the Velocity stack, no lower than 11/4 on the low, but you will have to tune your high much leaner, start at 11/4 stay rich for at least 8 tanks, then tune leaner up to 1 turn out on the high...

When coming up to rpms on the ground, you want the engine to come up on rpms, but not to clean..keep it rich. If it stumbles a little bit coming up, then that is ok.. The reason I say this is that the high needle effects hover with this engine. You will primarily will be using the high needle.

I do not use the velocity stack...I use the MA airfilter... Velocity stacks don't seem to do well for heli's near hover, but this engine seems to don't care. I still like running a air filter better..

The stock gear ratio is for sport flying, it will 3D, but another pinion will make it much better for 3D.. No different than the Predator on this issue

Try to keep the BS down on this thread, because we want this info to help those needing help...Hopefully Mark will Sticky this thread for future use..
Thanks
Bill

11-04-2009 06:53 AM

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Billme
Elite Veteran
Location: MS

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When preparing the engine while building, one special note on the insulator..All Stock insulators for that matter!

I'm not fond of the gasket material used...I doubled the gaskets on the engine, and carb side...I like thick gaskets to make sure all the gaps are filled...If you do this, silicone the gaskets together before you put them on..Only use it to put them together, do not put silicone on the metal...

Also, go down to Ace hardware and get two 4mm washers they sell, and add to the bolts that hold the insulator on...The ones from the factory are not big enough, and allows the insulator to loosen and slips on the metal inserts molded in the holes for the bolts..The added washer will cover the whole ear of the insulator, and not allow it to back off when its hot...Do this first before you start changing gaskets. Do this mod before you ever crank the engine if your building now. There will be some better gaskets soon..

Its ok to tighten the insulator to the engine real good, but when tightening the carb, notice where the ears are, and study what is happening as you tighten..This is the reason I like thick gaskets..When you tighten here you fold the ears back somewhat, and can allow a leak..
With thick gaskets, you can tighten down pretty good without worry..

Finally, do not tolerate leaks on the insulator. it means you are sucking air, which will lean out the mixture more and possibly hurt your engine..Just do the white glove test , and wipe the bottom of the insulator to make sure...

I love this little engine! Its going to be fun, and I'm sure there will be manufactures coming out with all kinds of stuff as it gains favor...

11-04-2009 07:42 AM

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sparx
Senior Heliman
Location: canton, oh - US

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Question on the tuning Bill.

When going from the stock "box muffler" to the Pipe, does it require a retune? If so, what direction, more lean or rich?

What kind of indicators do you look for on this engine to tell if you are lean or rich?

11-04-2009 04:57 PM

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Billme
Elite Veteran
Location: MS

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I have not flown this engine with the stock muffler, but, it should not be any different from the 231 where I have used the stock muffler..

Running the stock muffler, you tend to have run leaner needle for average power..You will never get the power you could with the tune muffler..Get the tune muffler

.

Anytime you change from a stock muffler to a tune muffler, you should have to richen the engine needles ....This is true on any tune muffler... Any time you have to tune rich to get more power, that is a very good thing...

This engine seems to stay smooth in lean conditions so far, so its important to check your temp with a gun . So long as you stay in the suggested needle range, and use good oil, you want have a problem unless you develop a leak, and even then with these setting it will show a unstable idle...This engine idles like a dream, so that is another indication something may be wrong if its not stable...

As always, if you have it running good, and temps are good, you should not have to twiddle needles...If a problem shows up, do not start twiddling the needles, find the problem...
Always go rich on the needles first if your not sure what to do..

Box full of fun

Bill

11-04-2009 05:50 PM

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HELI PRO 007
Heliman
Location: Ireland and Portugal

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Would a standard starter turn over this engine or would we need a more powerful starter? What battery would be good for EI system?

11-04-2009 10:11 PM

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Billme
Elite Veteran
Location: MS

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My starter is a standard Hobbico starter, running two 7.4 volt car batteries.. Does a good job

The Stock EI only allows 4.8 volts.. Another Century test pilot used one cell 3.7 volt cell with good results on a CH ignition system..

A standard 4.8 nicad is fine... I used the 1000ma packs that nobody uses that come in radio sets.. it was good for 3 flights

There are more choices to upgrade to...Hanson has one that can take 6 volts...We are running the 6.6 A123 batteries 2300ma.. They are lighter than the 4.8 nicad 1000ma pack in this unit..

CH ignitions can adjust your input voltage up to 7.4 packs on their unit, so you can use a lipo if you want...

We hope that Zenoah will listen to us on the future stock units so as to keep the battery light...

I'm working on a optic system to just let one lipo run everything..I'm sure we'll work up to that...There are manufactures out there already putting gadgets on the drawing board...

11-04-2009 10:30 PM

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bec123
Heliman
Location: regina, sask. canada

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Got mine today

Hello Billme
This is my first gasser heli normally fly nitro

-I have the HD head so will the head speed be higher as it is 16 tooth gear?
-What are some of the engine temp ranges one should look for.
-What page is the missing mixing arms on and part number in manual for HD.
-If head speed is higher should I use a bigger blade like 640 due to possible higher head speed, was thinking of using rototech 620 blades.
-are the tail rotor blades sufficent, I had to change out my SE rapptor to carbon fibre and what a difference.
-I like to fly aggressive and am doing flips and rolls spins etc so did I purchase the right heli with the HD head or would the LT have been a better choice.
- Are the align 610 servos for cyclic a good choice along with a spartan gyro.

Thank you in advance for your responses.

bec

11-05-2009 01:46 AM

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bec123
Heliman
Location: regina, sask. canada

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battery life

Hello Billme
You stated 3 flights to a 1000mah pack 4.8,,,how long was each flight. are you using nicad or nicmhd batteries. I generally fly 7min with heli and 10min with plane. sorry i did not post on last posting...

bec

11-05-2009 01:49 AM

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bec123
Heliman
Location: regina, sask. canada

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One last question

Hello Billme
How do you tell if you have the HD or the LT....I ordered the HD.

bec

11-05-2009 01:56 AM

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Billme
Elite Veteran
Location: MS

My Posts This: Topic Forum

I'm building a HD myself.. Will be using 620 rotortechs...The HD head is the Predator head with much bigger blade holders is the way you can tell the difference..The Lt is a reg 50 head, much smaller

To do aggressive flying, you will need the 14 tooth..Other ratios will be available soon...

My flights were 15 mins...The stock Ei uses about 300 ma per 20 min of flight.. A tank will last 20 mins..Your mileage may vary

The book says 2700 pack last for 70 mins...Most of everything in the book is for airplanes reference so do not go by it...Don't even follow the needle settings...

Temps should be after breakin around 200 deg to 220 degs...Max temp should be 240..During breakin, if you fly a little hard, you will see 240 so don't panic.This will vary with different ratios and flying..
Do not lug the engine, let it turn up ... If you get the 14 tooth 1800 is a good speed during breakin..After two gallons or the power comes up you can run higher...I plan to run 2000 or more with this head..

This engine can run nearly 14 grand out of the box, but it is a good idea to keep the rpms down for while...I may change the time on breaking from two to one gallon later, but most folks will do what they want...

11-05-2009 02:21 AM

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MAXHSHV
Veteran
Location: deerriver,mn usa

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Hey Billme thanks for all info, what oil are you running and what ratio after break in.
I'm thinking of useing the oil for my dirtbike whitch is pure synthetic and good for 40 /1 or leaner.

To much power is never enough.

11-05-2009 02:33 AM

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bec123
Heliman
Location: regina, sask. canada

My Posts This: Topic Forum

somewhat confused

Hello Billme
The manual states the HD comes with a 16tooth gear,,,would that not create a faster headspeed on the 84tooth main gear?? Also with the larger blade holders how do you make the rotor blades fit?? I checked mine and the gap is really different from my 50 nitro head to this HD one....My 600 blades are not even close to filling the blade holder. thanks

bec

11-05-2009 03:38 AM

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Tap or Snap
Senior Heliman
Location: Springhill, Fl

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Someone has already come out with an aluminum insulator block for the G-20 but no teflon gaskets.

http://cgi.ebay.com/Zenoah-G-20ei-A...b#ht_2318wt_938

--Jeff--

11-05-2009 05:33 PM

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Billme
Elite Veteran
Location: MS

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I ran the quicksilver outboard all purpose oil for break in at 5 ounces on the stock engine, then switched to the Pennsoil outboard total syn after two gallons at 5 ounces.
Chris Bergen has been raving about it, and to be honest i like how it does. Burns real clean.
May use what I have always used on the Hanson..Sthil HP in the orange bottle..4 ounces ... Some folks run this all the time..
Of course the Amsoil is still a good oil to use..

Bec,

You can run the 16 tooth, but the engine speed will be lower running at high rotor speed, so you will have reduce your topend pitch somewhat so the engine can handle it.. If you don't like it, you can always change it...
When you buy the rotor techs blades, they will have 1mm spacers to use in the blade holder to mount the blades...

I'm testing A 90 TOOTH MAIN GEAR with 14 tooth and a 13 later...

Not surprised about the metal insulator...A lot of folks are running with just regular gasket with these ...No worries about distortion.

11-06-2009 01:11 AM

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Billme
Elite Veteran
Location: MS

My Posts This: Topic Forum

CA threaded balls

Folks,
Pay close attention to appling CA to the threaded balls to the bellcranks, and especially the plastic swashplate...
Some folks use JB weld which is ok too

but CA does fine
Bill

11-06-2009 01:36 AM

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Billme
Elite Veteran
Location: MS

My Posts This: Topic Forum

Velocity stack

I highly recommend that you take the velocity stack off, and use a good air filter...Otherwise you will find your high needle much leaner to keep the engine running when starting...
The MA air filter has the least differential, it is like running with out a filter..

This notice is mainly for novice...Those who know how to run gas engines will know how to compensate...

11-06-2009 03:10 AM

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bec123
Heliman
Location: regina, sask. canada

My Posts This: Topic Forum

16 tooth pinion gear

I will build the HD stock for now. with the 16 tooth pinion will it fly aggresive and do the 3d like the video that century put out.

I had to file the inside of the head so the feathering shaft would fit,,,appeared to be 2 casting lines inside, at first thought it was to center shaft but nope. any thoughts or conerns regarding this Billme.

If i am asking to many questions please state. Also hope others chime in as you have set this up to help,, and so far it has been great for me,,,as my first venture into gasser it seems the same but different.. thanks

bec

11-06-2009 02:46 PM

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Tap or Snap
Senior Heliman
Location: Springhill, Fl

My Posts This: Topic Forum

Is there a way to adapt a pullstart to the G-20, using Zenoah parts? Century advertises a pull start but its not available. I would like a pullstart so I can run an onboard generator.

Regards Jeff

11-06-2009 04:07 PM

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Billme
Elite Veteran
Location: MS

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No concerns bec..My shims were slightly undersized for spindle, but the dremal fixed it...
One big shim, and one small one is all I used...

Some folks complain that every little thing is not perfect for them, but I see it as modeling. Sometimes you have to fit machinery. I can take metal off, I just can't put it back on

.
Bec, let me also say , that I thought the 14 tooth was going to be stock, as it should be, but I don't hold the hammer..All I can tell you is for me, 14 tooth would be the max for me. Century just pick the 16 for the kit..

Tap,
You may can put the back nut off of a 231, 26 230 for that matter, which also engages the starter..It has a low profile..
Ask for, or order a low profile pull starter... You will have to make a adapter plate, unless you find one that matches the motor mounting holes already. wouldn't that be cool?
I have not done this yet. I'm going to if Century delays this.

11-06-2009 08:16 PM

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Billme
Elite Veteran
Location: MS

My Posts This: Topic Forum

Felt clunk

Here is the filter clunk I use for this small engine...

http://cgi.ebay.com/2-IN-TANK-Fuel-...=item3352bbc0f2

I have seen these same filters at Advance auto parts store in the small engines section ...

Also use the 4040-a tygon pick up fuel tubing...

Do not use the stock clunk in the kit.. You want something to remove air bubbles...These units do a fine job

Bill

11-06-2009 08:38 PM

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Century Hawk - 50NX - Raven - Predator > Radikal 20 FYI

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