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e-MSH Protos 500 > Solved Protos problem - Gyro problem remains
 
 
PaulGT3
Senior Heliman
Location: Mammoth Lakes Ca

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No more broken tail blades. I knew something was wrong just couldnt put
my finger on it, since I havent flown IT in awhile. I put the radio throttle stick mid position. Then I looked at the servo arms. I did this last week and thought I had fixed it. But no, on minimum throttle it was positioning the blades with negative pitch and it was pushing it self into the ground. I re centered the arms today and I got a very gentle lift up instead of pushing down. Some how something in my radio got messed up with subtrim or something. I zeroed everything out and re-centered and its acting correctly. I flew my BEAM today and it flew faultlessly until it let loose with a tail rotor and its blade holder.
I used a TRex 450 tail piece and it fit and it flew great. So I took it in and studied its swashplate travel and tried to mimic it as closely as possible.
Now the chopper behaves on throttle up as expected. HOWEVER my tail is still spinning CCW. I cant get it to stop. I did take credit though for doing my first periotte. I will look at this GY 502 tomorrow and see what I have setup incorrectly. ITs reversed in the radio virtual toggle switch and its reversed on its display. That might be it.
11-04-2009 01:27 AM
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gorn
Elite Veteran
Location: Western Australia

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reverse the gyro first (leave your radio for a sec), when you push the tail sideways with your hand, the leading edge of the blades should rotate to the oposite direction to counter the movement.
So if you push the tail to the left, the leading edge of the blades should turn right.

Once you have that doen, pick up your radio.
Give left rudder, the leading edge of the tail blades should go to the right.
If they do not, reverse rudder in your radio.

Once you have done these things, double check it all

You should not be mechanically taking out all your negative pitch.
Its your thumbs that are shoving it into the ground, and its a habit YOU have to break.
However, in the mean time, set the heli up for equal pitch range top and bottom.
To get rid of lots of negative pitch, adjust your pitch curve.
If your only flying in normal mode (not idle up), then go into your radio menu for pitch curve.
Instead of starting the curve at zero, start it at 40.
If its a JR or Spektrum radio, it will end up looking like this 40/45/50/75/100.
You should be hovering at about 3/4 stick, never at center, forms bad habits IMO.

Now then, if you take all of your negative pitch out, then how do you think you will get the heli down when its windy and pushes your heli up?
Quite often a bit of negative pitch is needed.

One thing I know for sure, is focus on breaking bad habits, but do what you have to in the short term as well.

Hope this has helped a bit, I do remember quite well how confusing it all was when I 1st started

If you bling it, they will come :D
11-04-2009 01:56 AM
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PaulGT3
Senior Heliman
Location: Mammoth Lakes Ca

My Posts This: Topic  Forum
Thanks Gorn! I will set it back up. My bad habits arent too bad becauseI havent flown enough!! I will get the radio ready and tinker with it tomorrow. I really appreciate it!!!

Thanks again!!
11-04-2009 02:16 AM
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gorn
Elite Veteran
Location: Western Australia

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glad to help

If you bling it, they will come :D
11-04-2009 02:42 AM
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whoamis
Senior Heliman
Location: san francisco, ca

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you know, with all due respect, I don't recall you ever acknowledging that you've viewed the finless setup videos.

they might save you a lot of time and money. watch the t-rex 450 ones. not perfect, but definitely the required primer for heli setup.

sounds a little like you're not being methodical enough, and you should know most of the stuff you're discovering after suffering through the effects.

setting up the servos 90 degrees without relying on too much subtrim is one thing, and getting your tail set up are all covered.

anyway, glad to hear you're making progress, I just hope you not only can get your heli flying, but can methodically make sure it's set up correctly for optimum flying, and safety.

good luck, and happy flying.
11-04-2009 03:44 PM
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PaulGT3
Senior Heliman
Location: Mammoth Lakes Ca

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WHoamis
I am working on being as methodical as I can People like you encourage me to do my own work instead of relying on the mentor all the time
like a crutch.
11-04-2009 05:29 PM
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Ecaf
Heliman
Location: West Dundee, IL

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Its not a crutch...

Its common sense.

Please, please, PLEASE find some competent help. The lack of understanding on basic heli matters that you are showing is scary.

If you keep going down the path you are currently headed, I can only forsee a lot of $$$ spent, a lot of frustration (which you are already showing), and the possibility of someone getting hurt (especially yourself).

I highly recommend that you do a Google search on basic model heli 101. Learn from the beginning on how to build, setup and fly your heli. Do it right, and it will make your enjoyment of the hobby that much better.
11-05-2009 12:27 AM
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PaulGT3
Senior Heliman
Location: Mammoth Lakes Ca

My Posts This: Topic  Forum
Ecaf

Before you go calling someone incompetent maybe you should
take the time to understand the problem
I believe as an engineer I know what I am doing and
I have fine mentor help. In my opinion this is a design
issue.

its not the helicopter setup the first time issue.
Its the design of the tail shaft in the Protos.
the pin keeps stripping out the plastic pulley.

Its the second time this has happened and I spend alot
of time (and some posts figuring this out) I NEVER would
have thought it would happen again.
Thats why I was having problems and couldnt figure it out.
11-05-2009 02:29 AM
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Ecaf
Heliman
Location: West Dundee, IL

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I never called anyone incompetent, and I fully understand the problem.

As for a design issue, it was, and now has been fixed. You have an older (1st) short length pin that was replaced in spring of 2008. There is a TON of detail out there on this issue here in this forum and many others. A simple search would find that information quickly and easily.

As for a fix, I would suggest you look for the longer one and install it.

As for your lack of knowledge, when you said in another thread "Ecaf, my development is so slow I dont know how to use the TH yet." this showed me that you dont fully understand proper heli setup. That is what I was referring to in the other post.
11-05-2009 01:45 PM
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PaulGT3
Senior Heliman
Location: Mammoth Lakes Ca

My Posts This: Topic  Forum
I have TWO tail pieces that I have received in 09 both are the short versions.
I say that my development is slow because I dont want to come across as a whining idiot. I say that to be disarming. My mentor is a 5 time World Champ. I am just trying to use runryder more than bother him.
I am trying to learn on my own. To be more self sufficient .
My TH is inh right now on his advice. I WAS getting frustrated as it turns out by a BAD design flaw. I also did many searches. It doesnt matter what board you are on, people who dont like to help say USE the SEARCH feature!! Well the search feature is not the be all, end all internet function. Wether it works well or not depends on your search terms- its tends to be very vague. If you have a search that is more than one word it really compromises the search and adds alot of non useful BS. Doesnt matter wether your on a Porsche site or a RC helicopter site.
I try to help those that need it by answering questions even if it was asked a month ago. I know the search is not going to give the definitive answer that I can in a sentence or two.
11-05-2009 03:51 PM
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Ecaf
Heliman
Location: West Dundee, IL

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Glad you have things all figured out now. I wont be commenting anymore.
11-05-2009 04:19 PM
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whoamis
Senior Heliman
Location: san francisco, ca

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Happy flying; catch you later.
11-05-2009 05:29 PM
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e-MSH Protos 500 > Solved Protos problem - Gyro problem remains
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