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CANOMOD . Experience RC . Heli-Max

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Main Discussion > Flybarless is AMAZING
 
 
Zaaaguy72
Key Veteran
Location: Grand Rapids, MN

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There is an unfair advantage to using a flybarless heli in a regularly flybarred event. You watch, once Align releases their Flybarless unit next year, there will be flybarless competitions, and I bet no flybarred heli's try to enter it!

Dude, look at your tail!!!!
11-04-2009 12:29 AM
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JamesV
Senior Heliman
Location: Savannah

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I have yet to fly a flybarless machine, but I have talked to several top pilots about its performance. I get mixed reviews. One inparticular says the technology is not quite there yet. Its great for big manuevers but hard down low 3d you can notice a lag. I know I am going to catch hell for saying this but its just what I was told in a conversation with a very well known top pilot. If you can feel the speed improvement between a dx7SE and a normal DX7 you will be able to tell that there is a lag in flybarless. Other then that, the majority of pilots cant tell the lag. It is nice to be tunable and have more power on tap I am sure though.

James VanHook
Performance Plus RC Rep
Phantomhobby.com
11-04-2009 12:30 AM
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Brokenlink
Key Veteran
Location: Oakdale,Ca.

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Years ago,they had discussions about whether to let competition pilots use gyros.It's just a matter of time before they do.
This is just pretty much part of a cycle,flybarless helis are not new.Just like radios that all had an inverted switch to fly upside down,then they started switchless inverted,man you were cool to do that!!

"Experience is a hard teacher because she gives the test first, the lesson afterwards
11-04-2009 12:33 AM
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Big Fil
Veteran
Location: Santa Rosa

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Nick Maxwell, Daniel Jetschin, and Kyle Dahl have all used them in major competitions and placed very highly at that.

One of the reasons I reckon you haven't seen them more in competitions is the sponsorship issue. Most of the guys competing at that level are flying factory sponsored helis. Even if they wanted to, their contracts may state they cannot fly highly modified versions of the heli. As more and more companies come online with FBL systems i'm sure you'll see more and more being used in comps.

Mikado
Edge Blades
11-04-2009 12:35 AM
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Zaaaguy72
Key Veteran
Location: Grand Rapids, MN

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2 axis systems sometimes feel detached, 3 axis systems are a whole new ballgame!

Dude, look at your tail!!!!
11-04-2009 12:37 AM
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JamesV
Senior Heliman
Location: Savannah

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and I also disagree with the "unfair advantage of using flybarless in a contest" theory. There are no rules saying you have to run a flybar. Top guys dont run it because they choose not to. Plain and simple. Also there is nothing a flybarless helicopter can do that a flybarred one cant, so its not like its "unfair"

James VanHook
Performance Plus RC Rep
Phantomhobby.com
11-04-2009 12:37 AM
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JamesV
Senior Heliman
Location: Savannah

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very true Big Fil

James VanHook
Performance Plus RC Rep
Phantomhobby.com
11-04-2009 12:43 AM
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dahld
Senior Heliman
Location: Bakersfield, CA, USA

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tj1 stated...

"...none of the best use them in world competitions..."

What "Big Fil" said above is correct. 3 of the 7 pilots who made the finals at this year's XFC used them, 3 of the top 10 pilots at this year's Align Ultimate 3D Competition in Las Vegas used them, 9 of the 10 pilots that made the finals at this year's Munich Heli Masters (a Eurocup Championship) used them, and I don't have the exact numbers, but they were used as well at the 3D Masters.

Also, FAI rules allow their use in F3N competitions. So quite frankly, flybarless (whether you personally like the idea or not), is here to stay, and will continue to grow in popularity, and eventually will surpass sales worldwide over flybar'd control systems.

To deflect the arrows headed my way over that last statement, I'll throw in, "IMHO of course" .

Dave Dahl

Kyle Dahl (16)
Sponsored by:
Mikado
Thunder Power
Kontronik
Scorpion
Egde Blades
11-04-2009 02:04 AM
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xgearllc
Senior Heliman
Location: klamath falls, or

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Quote 
sounds like there very hard to set up ......... every post is saying how hard they are to set up !!!!!!!!!!!!!!! i want one but im not sure ,,, i have the trex 600n and 500 and 450 . was thinking of putting one on the 500 ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, no point in buying a new heli ,,,,,,,, so just to upgrade an old one

If i can set this up with very little trouble (the troubles that i had were clearly defined in the manual, so i had no excuse), then anyone really should be able to set one of these up. Don't be afraid of new at all. I now have a Vibe 90 3d Vbar and a vibe 50 Vbar. The vibe 50 has always been fbl, so i really can't compare it to how it flew flybarred, but on the other hand, I've flown the crap out of the 90 while it was flybarred, then went fbl with it with a rjx head and a vbar 4.0. The 90 was no slouch before and now with the vbar, this thing is unreal. i have the agility slider set at 43 and it flips and rolls upwards of 2-3 times as fast as it did with super stubz (45 is the setting for 3d flight and 50 is the setting for aggressive 3d flight).

High wind is now not a factor for me. Both vibes are just as solid in high wind and they are in dead calm. Both of the vibes are also very locked in and i feel way more connected to the 90 than i did before when it was flybarred.

Go for it and don't look back.

for the people that have tried it on another ones ship and did not like it, my bets are that you were over controlling it. my buddy took the 50 up and he was all over the place correcting things that didn't need corrected (in his mind he was still flying his raptor, correcting ground effect). He made me nervous enough that i made him land it and try again, keeping his thumbs from doing crazy crap. He is now going vbar on both of his birds.

here is a link to the vbar manual
http://www.vstabi.de/V4/Manual%204.02%20englisch.pdf

Vibe 90 (V Bar), Vibe 50 (V Bar)
11-04-2009 06:29 PM
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fiveoboy01
Veteran
Location: Waunakee, WI - USA

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Do you guys see the same advantages adding a fbl unit to a 450 size bird?

Mikado Logo 400, hopefully ready by spring.
11-04-2009 06:51 PM
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Terrabit
Key Veteran
Location: Seattle, WA - USA

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I'm on my third vbar ship. I am most definately hooked. The first was a Logo 600 (still my favorite). The second was a Logo 400 (amazing). The third is a Trex 450pro (the one I fly most). I can tell you it flies like no other flybarred 450 for damn sure - it flies more like my 600 than a 450. Stability, agility, power, and flight times are dramatically better than any other 450 I've flown. Flybarless machines are also quiter so you can hear the blades, motor, belt, and bearings with more clarity. And with bank switching you can radically change the flight characteristics with the flick of a switch.


Consistent with my previous experience, repair costs are also lower. When comparing the initial cost of flybarless, don't forgrt to subtract the cost of a good gyro. If you're looking at converting you probably wouldn't be happy with a 401.

Flybarless is the future. Don't hate, appreciate!

Esprit Model
11-04-2009 07:18 PM
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tj1
Senior Heliman
Location: ireland

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mmmmmmm might splash out and get me one .... put it on my trex500
11-04-2009 08:38 PM
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Jeff polisena
Key Veteran
Location: westpalmbeachflorida usa

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TIP ; if you are going to get a bigger heli and go FBL get full version for 500 not mini . Nothing wrong with mini but not recommended for larger helis .I had full version on 500 and worked out great then moved it to 90.

I dont know how to fly just how to not crash !!!!!
11-04-2009 08:49 PM
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MrMel
rrProfessor
Location: Lidingo, Sweden (GMT+1)

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It's really not about it flying "better" or making you fly "better", I would have scored same in this summer's local F3N competition if I had used paddles.

But its about you enjoying your heli even more.

At least that's the my view.

Only downfall, if you got many helis, is you want to convert all, since only thing you think of when you have one FBL machine, is "how nice will my other bird(s) feel with FBL"

Ask me, 8 vbar's and counting....

My site: http://heli.dacsa.net
11-04-2009 09:01 PM
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bob00
Veteran
Location: Toronto, ON

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Yes, modern flybarless is amazing - worse, it's addictive.

Did the exact opposite of Terrabit - started with a 450 pro / mini-v as an experiment - flew 50 flights that weekend and was hooked, ordered a logo 400 the following week. After a couple pulls on the 400 ordered a logo 600 later that same week.

Unless something really bad pops up my 90's will get the treatment in the spring.

It's been years since I've been at the field when this cold out - addiction sucks .

- Rob
teambob00
11-04-2009 11:03 PM
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tj1
Senior Heliman
Location: ireland

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sold!!!!!!! im getting one ,,, the vbar 4.0 one ,,, i think ,,,,,,,,,,the best one anyway,,,
put it on my 500
11-04-2009 11:58 PM
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FlaG8r
Elite Veteran
Location: Florida

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I can see that it makes for a smoother flight, but don't agree it makes you "better" in 3D. I'm waiting for lower price units to come out.

Life is tough, it's tougher if you're stupid
www.jaxrc.com
11-05-2009 12:11 AM
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Terrabit
Key Veteran
Location: Seattle, WA - USA

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If you want more stability, flybarless will do that. If you want to flip and roll faster, flybarless will do that. If you want more power, flybarless will do that. If you want longer flight times, flybarless will do that too.

Flybarless can give you all these things to varying degrees. But more often than not the setup is weighted with deference to one or more of these characteristics - stability, agility, power, and flight time. It may not make you anything but, it certainly offers some flexibility in terms of setup.

Esprit Model
11-05-2009 02:30 AM
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FlyingHigh450
Elite Veteran
Location: Macomb,Mi

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Trex 600N/hyper 50/MP5, Revmax,Spartan DS760/JR DS8900G,3 Align DS610's.
11-05-2009 02:46 AM
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heli-cuzz
Key Veteran
Location: Pittston, Pa. USA

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FBL is AMAZING!!! I love it!
11-05-2009 03:48 AM
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