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Main Discussion > how much faster? Flybar vs Flybarless
 
 
floop
Veteran
Location: Southern, NJ

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We have a local bet going on. Is a Flybarless electric faster than a nitro machine.

Machine 1)
700N - OS91 HZ, Hatori pipe, CY paddles, CY 710 Radix

Machine 2)
700E - 12S Hyperion, Castle 85, Scorpion 500Kv motor, Flybarless, Radix 710

Is the Flybarless faster? How much in Fast forward flight?

IT's what I do.
11-03-2009 03:40 AM
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Dale M
Senior Heliman
Location: Lakewood Ca USA

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I don't know about faster... But a strong electric set-up will have more horsepower than a nitro bird. Check the IRCHA vids of Tim Jones. Trex 700 putting out roughly 10 horsepower!!!

AMA #99382
11-03-2009 04:21 AM
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oysifly
Veteran
Location: Bentonville, AR

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I would say that the 12s 700 fbl would for sure be faster, I have seen both of them fly and my bet goes on the Electric. Could have been the pilots flying them, but I doubt it.

Tim Jones 700 was a monster.....

Chuck Bole in Tulsa has a 14s 700e that is FBL and I know for a fact that is one hot set up!!!!

Quick...here comes my wife....hide that new Heli !!!!
11-03-2009 04:25 AM
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jbdww
Veteran
Location: Round Rock, Texas

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My vote is for the 700E.

Skids Up
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11-03-2009 04:29 AM
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floop
Veteran
Location: Southern, NJ

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I hear the votes but how much faster in FFF? I'm not sure it would be.

IT's what I do.
11-03-2009 04:32 AM
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cudaboy_71
Elite Veteran
Location: sacramento, ca, u.s.

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500kv motor doesnt put out the power the 560 does. that might be a close race.

but, the 560 would take hands down. i've personally seen it on a vbarred 700 running 2200 headspeed and not bog 710s through anything thrown at it--even intentionally trying to bog it. how could it lose?

if it ain't broke…break it.
11-03-2009 06:14 AM
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Thomas Moore
Senior Heliman
Location: California

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Flybar-less is going to be inherently faster because of reduced drag. Also, at the higher speeds the flybar-less setup will not have the tendency to "balloon" up because of the flybar. If you put a flybar-less machine on a nitro, and then fly an identical nitro helicopter, the flybar-less helicopter will win hands down. Comparing flybar-less electric to a nitro helicopter with a flybar just isn't fair

Team Avant
11-03-2009 06:45 AM
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Band1086
Senior Heliman
Location: Kennewick, Wa. USA

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I have two 700E's. Right now I have Scorp 560's in both. One I have set for 2200 as of now and the other 2000. Both are 12S TP 45C & VX 5000. Both weigh in around 11-11.25 lbs. Both are FBL. The one set at 2200 HS is much faster than the other. I used to have the nitro set up with the 91HZ decked out(very good power for a nitro). It was FBL also. Because the electric is capable of much higher power output, it will sustain higher HS with more pitch without bogging. And higher head speed means faster forward flight. However, if you take a nitro and an electric and set them up a like i.e. 2000 HS, +-12 pitch same cyclic, in other words not too much for the N, so it won't bog, than they would be equal, if there weights were equal. If the E was FBL and the N was not, the E would have the advantage. But to recap, the E is capable of more power than the N. but set up equally, they would be comparable.
Quote 
Trex 700 putting out roughly 10 horsepower!!!
According to horse power calculators, the Scorp 4035-560(a higher continuous wattage output motor than the 500 KV)is capable of approx 5.5-6.5 HP, whereas the 91HZ W/ pressurized fuel system, Viper head, SB-20, etc. pretty much all you can do to it, will put out approx. 3.5-4 HP.
11-03-2009 08:35 AM
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tech3rcheli
Senior Heliman
Location: Las Vegas Nv

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Flybarless will win! Can I put 5.00 on it?

Compass
Common Sense RC
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MS Composite
11-03-2009 08:42 AM
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zmooth
Heliman
Location: ARF!

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233 kph

11-03-2009 10:09 AM
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Zaaaguy72
Key Veteran
Location: Grand Rapids, MN

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Hands down, the 700e. I would like to put 100.00 down on that!

Dude, look at your tail!!!!
11-03-2009 12:45 PM
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Riq
Senior Heliman
Location: ND

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I have a fbl 700e w/560 12s and one with a 91hz and flybar. The E kicks the sheet out of my nitro, and gets decent flight times.

I heard a podcast where Bert says that Align wont produce a 700E because there is no market for it.......Humm, I bet that scorpion has sold a crap load of 4035s for that reason alone, but I guess thats still not enough in the profit margin for align.
11-03-2009 12:53 PM
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Bundian
Senior Heliman
Location: Miami, FL USA

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Since some of you has experience here with flybar less let me ask a few questions.
How does it feel? Is it much faster than a flybarsetup?
How does it flies?
I got mixed reviews from my buddies, one of them loves the flybarless setup, the other two doesnt really likes it, they say it tries to overcorrect your moves, if you do some crazy piro moves ( which i do a lot in my flying).
I really wanted to get it but if it would try to correct for me I would go nuts
Please let me know

Fly it like you stole it!!!
11-03-2009 02:24 PM
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Zaaaguy72
Key Veteran
Location: Grand Rapids, MN

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It depends on the flybarless unit and the setup. I use Vbar, and there are no problems with over-compensation if your swash gain is set right. The flybarless units feel a little different initially, but grow on you really fast. The fastest flybarred setup cannot match a flybarless setup because they cannot match the pitch range of flybarless and have inherent drag because of the flybar. Switch man, after you learn to dial them in, they are great!

Dude, look at your tail!!!!
11-03-2009 03:25 PM
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Jag72
Elite Veteran
Location: 20 minutes south of Boston Mass...

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flybarless and piro...

There are a MILLION vids of guys doing HARD CORE piro stuff with flybarless machines...

To say it auto corrects your moves is NOT accurate...the flybarless systems do have abit of autocorrection in them...but only when the system senses input from external sources...like wind (corrects for wind)

the flybarless machines do EXACTLY what you tell them to do...the flybarless machines fly piro stuff BETTER than any flybarred machine also...

I do a fair amount of piro stuff myself and find it easier and more consistent than any flybar/gyro system out there...

Just my .02$

BTW...I fly only flybarless stuff myself...I have a few and find them MUCH more enjoyable..

Esprit Model Flight Team
11-03-2009 03:37 PM
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jbdww
Veteran
Location: Round Rock, Texas

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If someone complains about flybarless and how they fly, it is because they do not have it setup right. Flybarless has its pros and cons, but the pros out way the cons. The main cons is tuning a flybarless system and even then it is not that bad and next in line is the cost.

Skids Up
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11-03-2009 03:42 PM
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Zaaaguy72
Key Veteran
Location: Grand Rapids, MN

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Once you learn to set them up, they are much easier and faster than setting up a flybar.

Dude, look at your tail!!!!
11-03-2009 04:02 PM
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floop
Veteran
Location: Southern, NJ

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So what do you think 5 mph faster? 10 mph faster. I'm not sure the electrics horse power would help much in FFF because the engine isn't that loaded. The missing paddles might help the disk a little. I wouldn't be surprised if they are almost dead even in FFF. High energy moves are a different story.

IT's what I do.
11-03-2009 04:38 PM
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Wingman77
Elite Veteran
Location: Pulaski TN US

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I would bet in the 15-20mph faster.

34.6% of all statistics are made up on the spot
11-03-2009 04:42 PM
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Carey
Veteran
Location: Allentown, NJ USA

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Wow lots of folks missed the question.

700e
20 knots/ 23 Mph faster

Can we get a betting pool going?

Invisible airwaves crackle with life.
Bright antennae bristle with the energy.
11-03-2009 04:52 PM
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