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Main Discussion > How long with training gear?
 
 
Aaron29
Key Veteran
Location: Bossier City, LA

My Posts This: Topic  Forum

Quote 
The orientations are coming while I fly.

Eh, I'm not so sure.

If you do a circuit you spend a certain part of it in nose in. You might say a quarter of it would be nose in as it comes around a circle. But this is assuming a nice round circle. Most people fly a box pattern that is more rectangular and has even less than 1/4 pointing at you.

AND...with a circle you aren't learning TRUE orientation. If I do a circle all I am learning is that pushing the stick toward the side I used to start the turn makes the bank steeper and pushing the stick to the opposite direction I used to start the turn makes the bank shallower.

It works for general flying around, but doesn't really teach ORIENTATION.

Also, I guarantee if I were to watch you fly I would notice your flight path doing subtle things that avoid situations where the heli's nose is pointing at you. It'd be as though it were something to get through.

So now your limited exposure to nose in is even less.

I can see the anger at the suggestion to sit there doing nose in all day. That's not how people learn. You have to sleep on it some, too. It might be easier to just incorporate a little nose in into every flight, and then do fun stuff the rest of the time. Maybe do nose in for a pack and then have fun the rest of the day.

Again, fly it as you wish. I'm just stating what I think to be the truth regarding your belief in adequate exposure to nose in with your method. If avoided, I don't believe it's going to randomly show up enough for you master it.

-Aaron
11-01-2009 07:33 AM
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mckrackin
Key Veteran
Location: lucasville,ohio USA

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		Every single flight starts with about a 15 second hover in each orientation just to look the heli over before zooming off.

That's plenty for me.For now.

You're right about my patterns though.Things like always turning right when the heli is on my left and vica versa.

I just started recently reversing all my circuits.

But,if it takes me 300 hrs to get to where you are,so what?
I have the rest of my life.

Alot of people try too hard to get the 3D crap mastered.Then what?

I've heard it said that the person at the field having the most fun is the best pilot there.
That makes me one of the best in the world
11-01-2009 07:47 AM
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Aaron29
Key Veteran
Location: Bossier City, LA

My Posts This: Topic  Forum
Quote 
But,if it takes me 300 hrs to get to where you are,so what?
I have the rest of my life.

If this makes you happy, sweet. Just offering my experience. Maybe someone out there wants to learn faster to be the next Szabo and will bite off on that advice.

Quote 
Alot of people try too hard to get the 3D crap mastered.Then what?

But this I have to laugh at. I guarantee that 5 years of trying very hard has not gotten me mastered. There is always something to learn or get better at. There is always polish. No one is ever "done."

I can try hard until I die and I'll never be done. "Then what" will always have an answer.

-Aaron
11-01-2009 07:54 AM
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mckrackin
Key Veteran
Location: lucasville,ohio USA

My Posts This: Topic  Forum
Quote 
But this I have to laugh at. I guarantee that 5 years of trying very hard has not gotten me mastered. There is always something to learn or get better at. There is always polish. No one is ever "done."

I didn't mean you,as I'm sure you haven't.lol...

Just that for me,there's no real interest in flying like Szabo.
It's like saying a professional motoX rider isn't a good rider and can't be having fun because he's not doing a Superman seat grab back flip on every jump.

I guarentee that by the time I can fly as good as I want to,I may never have done a piro-flip.
11-01-2009 08:12 AM
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Aaron29
Key Veteran
Location: Bossier City, LA

My Posts This: Topic  Forum
Quote 
I can tell you where to put your two cents.

LOL

-Aaron
11-01-2009 08:13 AM
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mckrackin
Key Veteran
Location: lucasville,ohio USA

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		Stocks.Bonds.You know?lol....
11-01-2009 08:19 AM
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heli21
Veteran
Location: Leroy, NY --USA-- Upstate NY

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		i used a set i bought from helimax until i broke it ( 3 flights) I had no problems after that.To learn nose hover i just started really close to the ground keeping the skids barely touching and getting a feel and learning orientation

Gaui 200, Furion 450, Trex 600e
11-01-2009 12:59 PM
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T-Rex-Flyer
Key Veteran
Location: Panama City, Fl

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		PaulGT3, First fix you're training gear.
To answer you're question, if you can land when you want and where you want without moving from side to side as you land, take the gear off and save it.
If your flying above three feet take it off, it's not going to save you anyway.
If you plan to learn nose in from the ground up, leave in on and learn it now, you'll thanks me latter.

mckrackin & Aaron29, maybe you should start you're own thread to continue you're bickering.

If the wings are traveling faster than the fuselage, it's probably a helicopter.
11-01-2009 02:47 PM
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GyroFreak
Elite Veteran
Location: Florida ... 28° 52' N 81° 16' W

My Posts This: Topic  Forum
Quote 
PaulGT3, First fix you're training gear.
To answer you're question, if you can land when you want and where you want without moving from side to side as you land, take the gear off and save it.
If your flying above three feet take it off, it's not going to save you anyway.
If you plan to learn nose in from the ground up, leave in on and learn it now, you'll thanks me latter.
Totally agreed !

Bacteria They're the only culture some men have
Growing old is mandatory; growing up is opti
11-01-2009 03:28 PM
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Aaron29
Key Veteran
Location: Bossier City, LA

My Posts This: Topic  Forum
Quote 
If your flying above three feet take it off, it's not going to save you anyway.

I'd even go so far as to say higher than about a foot it's ineffective. You literally want to be skimming the surface like a mosquito.

Good post! With training gear, use it as it was MEANT to be used or toss it.

-Aaron
11-01-2009 03:36 PM
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PaulGT3
Senior Heliman
Location: Mammoth Lakes Ca

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		Damn this is the best post ever started.
Tons of great info.
I can fly my beam at 5 feet 8 feet on the ground.
My protos I need to keep close. something is wrong with the protos
so I need to keep it close.
I can fly side in as long as I move my body and radio to the orientation of the bird. I hurt my neck when I fly nose in and look back over my back at the bird!!
11-01-2009 05:11 PM
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JasonJ
Senior Heliman
Location: North Idaho

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		When I read about turning your body and looking over your shoulder and any other variant of yoga while flying, I cringe. It's not only a bandaid at best, but a behavior that needs to be unlearned later. Not to mention the fact that brainpower used to think about your body position is brainpower not being used to learn to fly. Not good. No such thing as multitasking, it is a myth.

Humans can only concentrate on one thing at a time, that attention gets divided once you start adding things, like flying while looking over your shoulder. Just face the helicopter, and take your time. I think the biggest mistake people make is rushing things and making it harder than it needs to be. Sim your brains out, then try it out slowly in real life. Face the helicopter at all times, anything else is unsafe.

As far as training gear goes, I stand by my belief that training gear can come off once you can land and take off proficiently. Take your time, and have your bail out maneuver in place (spin to tail in worked very well for me).

Most importantly, HAVE FUN.
11-01-2009 06:01 PM
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twest38
Heliman
Location: Maryland

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		When one talks about " learn all orentations " What does that mean ? Does it mean learn to hover "around a clockwise/counter clockwise movement" stopping stopping at each 15 min interval or 10 min interval and holding a hoover ? Im I understanding this correctly ?
11-01-2009 06:08 PM
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PaulGT3
Senior Heliman
Location: Mammoth Lakes Ca

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		Jason great points. I will try to stand forward while flying nose in.

I have time thats for sure
11-01-2009 06:12 PM
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JasonJ
Senior Heliman
Location: North Idaho

My Posts This: Topic  Forum
Quote 
When one talks about " learn all orentations " What does that mean ? Does it mean learn to hover "around a clockwise/counter clockwise movement" stopping stopping at each 15 min interval or 10 min interval and holding a hoover ? Im I understanding this correctly ?

Truly being proficient at all orientations means what you said both upright and inverted. If you will only fly scale, then the inverted part isn't necessary. Most people get good at upright, then move on to basic aerobatics like loops, rolls, stall turns. Then they start doing flips, and once the flips are mastered, they want to learn the inverted hovering and inverted direction flight.

This where I am at, getting into inverted hovering and directional flight. I am rockin' it on the sim but have had challenges translating it to real life. In another words, kinda chicken after a LOT of crashing earlier this summer. I went back to what I know and have been satisfied, but I will continue to sim sim sim this winter and try again next year to break through my invert barrier.
11-01-2009 06:35 PM
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FlyingHigh450
Elite Veteran
Location: Macomb,Mi

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		Once you learn to hover and keep it in one spot take it off,Training gear does nothing but throw the ballance off.I just tryed the training gear in the left pic on my Trex 600 and that made the heli hover like crap.IMO,training gear is to help you learn to hover/slide around till you can keep the heli in one place.



Trex 600N/hyper 50/MP5, Revmax,Spartan DS760/JR DS8900G,3 Align DS610's.
11-01-2009 07:43 PM
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Aaron29
Key Veteran
Location: Bossier City, LA

My Posts This: Topic  Forum
Quote 
training gear is to help you learn to hover/slide around till you can keep the heli in one place.

And as such is great for learning an unfamiliar orientation. Like doing nose in for the first time. Or side in.

Why people think the training gear is great for learning tail in only but has no purpose elsewhere is beyond me.

When you get confused, or if the heli starts to scoot off in a direction while flying a foot off the ground with training gear, all you have to do is smoothly lower the collective and gently let the heli down. And you are out of the trouble situation. Without doing anything to any other controls.

People instead want to learn other orientations by going up high and planning a "bailout."

It takes WAY more mental faculties. Now, when you get confused or the heli starts to scoot off in some direction, you have to spin the tail around to the proper orientation, stop the tail in the right place, and then correct the attitude of the heli once it gets there. Depending on how bad things were when you began this "bailout" maneuver, you could end up with a heli going God knows where because no good input is being applied as you are trying to spin it around and then determine the proper input.

You are stressed out when you START this bailout maneuver, and yet time is of the essence and a mistake might be costly.

Done right, flying with training gear should cause ZERO stress. You just gently lower the collective and the heli pretty much stops right where the trouble started. You don't have to correct anything. The training gear corrects it for you. And as long as you aren't trying to do this in a tight spot you have a good deal of time.

The trick is to keep the heli low while training. Do it on a level surface, too. Skim the ground with the heli. You don't want to be higher than 12 inches. I see so many people jump up in to a three foot high hover with their gear on. Training gear cannot do its intended job up there.

-Aaron
11-02-2009 09:48 AM
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Aaron29
Key Veteran
Location: Bossier City, LA

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		It's just too bad there's no such thing as inverted training gear for learning those orientations, too.

-Aaron
11-02-2009 09:58 AM
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FlyingHigh450
Elite Veteran
Location: Macomb,Mi

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		Thats your opinion just like everyone ealse has one.I know when I first learned to hover I took the training gear off and everything was easyer.I still crashed with the landing gear on so I took it off.If everyone flew and thought like the next person there would be no need for threads like this.The way you think might not work for someone and the same with me.I seen people learn and do awesome without training gear.

Trex 600N/hyper 50/MP5, Revmax,Spartan DS760/JR DS8900G,3 Align DS610's.
11-02-2009 11:33 AM
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DougsRC
rrProfessor
Location: Mass.

My Posts This: Topic  Forum
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2lRu2KBafaI
Quote 
It's just too bad there's no such thing as inverted training gear for learning those orientations, too.
11-02-2009 12:02 PM
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