RunRyder RC Helicopter Topic - Servo upgrade?

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Century Hawk - 50NX - Raven - Predator > Servo upgrade?

hawkrock
Heliman
Location: Stony Plain, Alberta, Canada

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My hawk pro is currently using a hitec hs-6965 for the collective, but I am still running the stock futaba 3151s that came with my radio, for the elevator and aileron. These are painfully slow, it won't even complete a roll. I am running a 5.2 volt regulated power system. What should I replace these with that won't crush my bank account?

10-31-2009 09:52 PM

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oldfart
Elite Veteran
Location: Vancouver, Canada

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If you have everything set-up properly, you should have no problems completing a roll with the S3151's. That is the same servos I use in my Hawk Pro (If you ever were at the ERCHA events in Stony Plane, you would have seen it perform a lot more demanding maneuvers then rolls.

So it is definitely something else with your set-up. e.g you are still using the training weights on the flybar paddles, and/or you are using too low a rotor speed (should be at least 1800) and/or an improper pitch to throttle curve, and/or not enough cyclic to throttle mix etc.

Do you have it set-up as per the sticky by SteveH at the top of this forum?

http://rc.runryder.com/helicopter/t321886p1/

Also you may find some of the articles listed here, in the left column, of assistance in setting up for aerobatics.

http://www.leisuretech.ca/index.php...hints_and_tips/

I will bet that your slow roll rate is not a function of your S3151 servos, but a function of how your Hawk Pro is set-up.

10-31-2009 10:15 PM

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hawkrock
Heliman
Location: Stony Plain, Alberta, Canada

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Yes I have seen your hawk fly. I always assumed it had some other equipment in it. It used to have better vertical performance before we used it for a test bed for a setup block we (the club) created. So that may have moved things away from the setup I had before. I know I don't have 1800 rpms at the head. In full forward flight it's 1650. I did get rid of the flybar weights. But seriously the 3151 I had on the collective gave up.

10-31-2009 10:37 PM

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J Kofoed
Senior Heliman
Location: Denmark

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When you have a HS6965 anyway, I'd buy two more

Best regards Jesper Kofoed

11-01-2009 07:44 PM

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hawkrock
Heliman
Location: Stony Plain, Alberta, Canada

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I had the 6965 left over as a tail rotor spare and when my collective servo packed it in I replaced it with what I had. Its way faster. Lastnight I checked all of my links alignment and increased my travels from 80% to 90% ( gained a little there ) can't go any further without binding at the top. My collective is 0 at 50% +11 at the top -10 at the bottom. It's a little windy here but I am going to test things later today. I could use somemore info on that cyclic -throttle mix. I don't have a lot of experiance with mixes.

Thanks

11-01-2009 08:07 PM

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hawkrock
Heliman
Location: Stony Plain, Alberta, Canada

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servos are not the problem.

OK After test flying (cold on the hands wind chill -5) it will roll now and do slow loops. I seem to still have a problem with the collective, and I think it's my hover point. At three quarter stick to hover it needs just a little bit more. According to my pitch curve (5 point) to hover I am at 78% (3/4 stick), but +11 is at 84% and my headspeed is over 1800 now, in fact it's high enough that when I turn in the wind and the tail unloads I get a wicked tail shake. This is not right, and it still climbs like it is towing a boat anchor. What am I missing?

11-02-2009 12:09 AM

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oldfart
Elite Veteran
Location: Vancouver, Canada

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Have you rebuilt the head recently, as you may have installed one of the thrust washers improperly in one of the grips. This will cause you not to get the same pitch in the air as on the bench.

I am assuming you are using the stock dampers and the spindle with the damper spacer set as shown here on page 12:

http://www.centuryheli.com/support/...%20book_web.pdf

Here is my Hawk Pro with S3151's:

http://www.youtube.com/user/PreddyG...u/0/jSxQ2DPl_oU

Here the head speed is running around 1850.

Always glad to help a fellow Canadian consumer.

11-02-2009 01:32 AM

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Dilbeck
Key Veteran
Location: Springdale Arkansas

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Good to see you flying phil, I think you or others may under state your flying skills. I would like to see more, You made the Hawk look effortless at 1850rpm. By the way, love the autos!!

If it doesn't fly sell it!

11-02-2009 02:36 AM

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hawkrock
Heliman
Location: Stony Plain, Alberta, Canada

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I bent the spindle shaft last year. Replaced it and upgraded to the red dampners. All the spacers are in place. I will check the to see if I have anything backwards. I took a look at my atvs and they were at 100%, and I was using the pitch curve to limit the servo travel. I tryed lowering the atvs to 80% and expanding the pitch curve values and I think I may have to start again. At 100% at the top and 0% at the bottom, I have +8 and -15, that means my linkages are the wrong length, I think.

p.s Thanks for the help Phil.

11-02-2009 03:35 AM

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oldfart
Elite Veteran
Location: Vancouver, Canada

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Dilbeck

Glad you enjoyed it. I popped that on youtube, in response to a fellow, on another forum, who insisted that the Hawk Pro could not 3D. He had even installed an OS 50 and top radio gear in his and was still not able to even do a flip.

Many kept trying to explain to him that it was obviously not the heli, but must be in his set-up or some other issue, because they all knew it could. Some even thre, are much better pilots then I am and have Hawks that they 3D reqularly. But as happens at times, he was content in just not believing.

But if someone is at a field where myths (e.g. the Hawk cannot 3D) are propegated, then they sometimes will be happy to believe it. This hobby is full of many myths. As I have always been the type that love to prove myths are exactly that - mis-information that is always propagated by the ignorant, I thought I would respond with this video.

Of note, is that two of my Leisure-Tech reps can really make that Hawk dance, and make my flying of it look relatively sedate. Heck, I spent most of my 25 years of heli-flying in FAI type of competitions, not flying 3D. I was a couple years passed 50 before I tried any 3D flying. But I do enjoy the challenge, even if I know I can never keep with the young 'uns.

But hey, as long as I can keep having fun with it, I will keep doing it.

11-02-2009 05:01 AM

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oldfart
Elite Veteran
Location: Vancouver, Canada

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Hawkrock

Yes, there is definitely something amiss. Like the thrust washers in the wrong orientation. The small one goes to the inside to ride against the ID of the bearing, then the bigger one, and then the locknut.

Please set your ATV's back to 100 and redo your mechanical set-up as described in the SteveH sticky that I linked to earlier.

That will be a good place to start.

P.S. The dampers on the Hawk in the video are the stock black ones.

If you have installed the harder red ones, be sure they are seated properly. Feel free to e-mail me and I will explain a simple way to do so.

Phil

11-02-2009 05:12 AM

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hawkrock
Heliman
Location: Stony Plain, Alberta, Canada

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I pulled the head apart. Surprise, the spindle shaft was bent on one end (again), and two of the bearings were gone. I replaced all the parts, but the new one came with 3 washers for each side. 2 for the ends of the shaft, and one that fits on the shaft, but I have no idea where this one is to go. I have all the other parts in place and in the right order. I do not however have thrust bearings in my blade grips. I have them in my Raven, but non of my hawks have them. Should I be upgrading? As to the setup, when we used the setup block my swash was to high so it was lowered, with no consideration to what that would do to the pitch. I wound up with lots of negative and not so much positive. I releveled everything from the swash up, and had to adjust the small links to get the positive side back. Tomorrow I will test fly what I have and see what happens.

11-07-2009 01:02 AM

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Dilbeck
Key Veteran
Location: Springdale Arkansas

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The large washer goes between the blade grip and the damper, the washers on the ends at the treads, the smaller one goes on first then the larger one then the lock nut.

If it doesn't fly sell it!

11-07-2009 01:40 AM

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hawkrock
Heliman
Location: Stony Plain, Alberta, Canada

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Bingo!! Now thats more like it. Once I upped my throttle curve so I had 100% at full now she rolls, loops, and flies inverted no problem. I also got to do my first real auto. I was adjusting the mixture, I seem to be running lean, when on an approach it just quit. Landed ok, and then noticed the glow plug was hanging by the wire. oops. Something else to add to the preflight checks. Thanks for the help.

11-13-2009 11:07 PM

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Century Hawk - 50NX - Raven - Predator > Servo upgrade?

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