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Autography FlightPower . Advantage Hobby . Revolution Models

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Main Discussion > hit a brick wall
 
 
russ
Senior Heliman
Location: england

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hi everyone ive hit a brick wall with my flying,find myself doing the same old figure 8 circuits then stop and hover for a bit etc.
i want to get into full on 3d.i have a trex 500 and a pheonix sim but what steps should i be taking and what should be my first manouvers to learn
many thanks
russ

russ
10-31-2009 09:13 AM
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GimbalFan
rrProfessor
Location: Copter County, Nv

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Your sim is the key. Practice maneuvers on your sim 'til you can recover from mistakes without conscious thought of what your fingers are doing. Build your 'muscle memories' -- and your sim is the key to doing this.

This for most is the best way to minimize crash frequency and damage.

Quote 
what should be my first manouvers to learn
Hovering steadily at all angles (nose in, nose out -- plus all six other angles).

Hovering inverted at all angles -- then fast forward fully controlled flight both top-up and inverted.

Then come back to RR for more.

op-thwõp-thwõp-thwõp-thwõp-thwõp-thwõp-thwõp-thwõp-thwõp-thwõp-thwõp-thwõp-t
10-31-2009 10:00 AM
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MagicFingers
Heliman
Location: PH, Mi

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Sim Time

But I hate the time on a sim. How can I make it more enjoyable.
Seems like it's drugery, almost as fun as shoveling snow.
Or digging a ditch.

Each one, teach one
10-31-2009 11:28 AM
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GimbalFan
rrProfessor
Location: Copter County, Nv

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Quote 
But I hate the time on a sim.
Then do all your practicing with your birds.

This isn't a problem if your pockets are deep and your wallet is thick.

Quote 
How can I make it more enjoyable. Seems like it's drugery, almost as fun as shoveling snow. Or digging a ditch.
I don't know -- to each his own with RC. Sim time for me has always been nearly as enjoyable as the real thing. Same pucker factor, same hair-raising twitch if I crash -- maybe cuz I treat it just as serious. Sounds odd but it's true.

Go figure.

Seriously -- grab a calculator and go figure.

op-thwõp-thwõp-thwõp-thwõp-thwõp-thwõp-thwõp-thwõp-thwõp-thwõp-thwõp-thwõp-t
10-31-2009 11:34 AM
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Seablade
Key Veteran
Location: floating around

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The Phoenix sim has tutorials for learning the aerobatics.
Check them out in the TRAINING-Tuition Video Browser.
I don't know why they are called "tuition" since they are there in the software and I've not paid any extra for them.
Also, you do not need to connect the Tx to watch the videos.
The term video browser is misleading as it is not a separate video outside of Phoenix, it is all in the same window.

"Vini, Vidi, Velcro"
10-31-2009 12:19 PM
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MLINVILLE
Senior Heliman
Location: Brighton, Co

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Quote 
But I hate the time on a sim. How can I make it more enjoyable.
Seems like it's drugery, almost as fun as shoveling snow.
Or digging a ditch.

I use the 3 crash rule. If I crash 3 times off goes the sim. This also helps with it not being a game. I also like to fly to music.

Mike
10-31-2009 12:30 PM
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MagicFingers
Heliman
Location: PH, Mi

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I like the 3 crash rule and the doing it seriously.

Each one, teach one
10-31-2009 01:22 PM
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Nashville
Elite Veteran
Location: Music City USA

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It's easy to say more sim time, but when I was learnng I was wasting most of my sim time as I didn't know what to practice or what I was practicing. I wish I had known other heli pilots at the time but there were none around. I didn't break free of the "brick wall" until I started traveling to meet other pilots and attending fun flys.

I was Spektrum when Spektrum wasn't cool
10-31-2009 04:15 PM
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gorn
Elite Veteran
Location: Western Australia

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me and my best friend had a similar issue to you.
What we did to make the sim time not only productive, but also enjoyable, was make every Saturday night a sim night at his house.
So we'd do the usual and crank some heli vids, talk crap as you do, and big note about new moves in the sim (all lies I tell ya lol)
We ALWAYS would think up some crazy trick that neither of us could do, and did not think was possible at all anyway.
We would hammer away at it for hours.
Usually ending up getting the trick done however badly lol.
What it did though, is teach us multiple ways to recover from odd situations, and also teach us to fly in different attitudes than our normal comfort zone.
Theres nothing like some friendy rivalry and calls of lower faster to motivate you.
Worked for us, the sim became more than a tool.
He has just bought a 700N after flying an old 500 of mine for a little while.
No 3d on that 500 as it was gutless.
However after 4 weekends in a row letting him have a go on my Protos, and only 3 packs per weekend, he tried his 1st piro flip....yes I was egging him on for the lower faster better etc etc.
He pulled it off very well.
Now he has a 700, and I have absolute faith that in 6 months time, he will be smackin it hard.

Long post I know.
But you just have to find ways to make the sim interesting enough to carry on with.
Also forget your comfort zone on the sim, push hard mate

If you bling it, they will come :D
10-31-2009 04:55 PM
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russ
Senior Heliman
Location: england

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thanks for all your input everyone ill give all these ideas a try and see how i get on

russ
10-31-2009 07:25 PM
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mckrackin
Key Veteran
Location: lucasville,ohio USA

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Try the balloon breaking game.
It took me forever to break more than three.lol....
11-01-2009 01:12 AM
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Sonic88
Veteran
Location: Murfreesboro, TN

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Quote 
Your sim is the key. Practice maneuvers on your sim 'til you can recover from mistakes without conscious thought of what your fingers are doing. Build your 'muscle memories' -- and your sim is the key to doing this.

Excellent advice. I have progressed fairly well and I crash very rarely. I do it on the sim until I am about 95% sure I can attempt it in real life without hitting the ground. While learning a new move, I learn the bail out moves which make crashing few and far between.

Procrastinators of the world unite ... tomorrow.
AMA #: 912822
11-01-2009 02:48 AM
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GimbalFan
rrProfessor
Location: Copter County, Nv

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RC heli simulators are literally worth their weight in gold if you're gonna be in this hobby for the duration. And if for no other reason than safety, they should be required equipment for anyone with a 250 or larger heli.

op-thwõp-thwõp-thwõp-thwõp-thwõp-thwõp-thwõp-thwõp-thwõp-thwõp-thwõp-thwõp-t
11-01-2009 09:08 AM
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Aaron29
Key Veteran
Location: Bossier City, LA

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If you want to get better, start by learning every orientation.

You can also learn the T maneuver in every orientation. This pays big dividends.

The T-maneuver that Curtis Youngblood talks about is pretty good. You basically bring the heli into a hover. Smoothly move 10 feet left. Stop there, and hover for a moment, to ensure you've stabilized. Smoothly move back to the center. Stop, stabilize. Then smoothly move 10 feet right. Stop. Hover. Then back to the center. Stop, stabilize, hover. Then move 10 feet forward. Stop, stabilize, hover. Then move 10 feet back. Stop, stabilize, hover.

Doing this maneuver, you trace like an upside down T on the ground. When performing the maneuver, you start out looking at the tail. As you move one direction you see one side. Then the other. This is challenging. Try to remain in complete control. Your sides of the T should be straight, not wavy lines.

Once you have it down tail in. Then you can do it nose in. Or left side in. Or right side in.

Then you can do it upside down.

Another method to help with orientation is to hover in each 45 degree quadrant to ensure any angle the heli is at you have control. It's surprising to see that flying the left side of the heli is not the same as the right. You'll be surprised how tough this is to do. But the reason it's tough is telling you that the correct input while the heli is in NON-hovering flight isn't just going to appear. You have to work at it.

Honestly, it takes discipline to get good at RC flying. It isn't fun doing orientation drills.

But if it were easy and fun to get very good....

....Everybody would be very good.

-Aaron
11-01-2009 10:09 AM
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holzback
Veteran
Location: noblesville IN United States

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good baby steps into 3d would be first, flying in all directions: forward,backwards,sideways, and sideways the other way. you need to be so good at this that you can bump the rudder and have no problems flying the heli in the same direction but with different orientation.
next step, bump the rudder more and more until you start holding the rudder and flying. i think that would be a good way to get into 3d, and it will help lead you into things like piro flips and other manuvers.

THE "NEW" KING OF POP
11-01-2009 10:42 AM
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A. Bundy
Elite Veteran
Location: Aurora,IL. 30W/SW of Chicago

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I would practice on the sim hovering left side,nose,in,right side,and tail in all rotating every 30 seconds.Next ,I would start loops and stall turns.They are pretty safe and easy.Following that would be rolls and Inverted hovering.Do the same as regular hovering drills only inverted.That will get you progressing better and build a solid base foundation for learning 3D.No rush,get there when you get there.
11-01-2009 05:50 PM
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JasonJ
Senior Heliman
Location: North Idaho

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I do hovering orientation drills on almost every tank. Usually I take off, do a slow full piro just to check the helicopter, then fly around, then come in nose first and hover. Another slow piro to check fuel level and marvel at the wonders of rotary flight, then off to zip around some more. I am in no hurry to learn every trick on earth, so I just fly around and do whatever comes to mind (as long as I can do it of course). When the tank is running low, I do a sort of drill like Aaron29 described until I get in the header tank, then land. I no longer land tail in, I land side in and have been working to nose in landing. I also do not take off tail in, rather I take off side in.

On the sim I do a lot of 3D, and it have paid dividends in real world near crash recovery. I am often amazed when I try something in real life and it goes horribly wrong and I pull off a recovery.

One thing I recently discovered was that I have been inducing rudder input when working collective management in real life. It has really hampered things until I tightened my left stick. I had my sticks pretty loose but now that the left stick is tight, it has eliminated the inadvertent rudder input.

Sometimes you hit a wall, and a break is better than just hammering away.
11-01-2009 06:25 PM
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russ
Senior Heliman
Location: england

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all sounds like good advice thanks guys

russ
11-01-2009 06:35 PM
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zaw
Key Veteran
Location: Lebanon, NH - USA

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I hit a chain-link fence once @ full speed during figure 8

ಠ_ಠ HBK2 built with inexpensive parts! ٩๏̯͡๏)۶ Gaui425
11-01-2009 07:56 PM
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CarbonXtreme . Midland Helicopters . HeliProz

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Main Discussion > hit a brick wall
 
 
chopper_crazy
Elite Veteran
Location: Delphos, Ohio

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Take your time. There is no rush in this hobby. You need to learn to walk before you run. Try things at least 2 mistakes high. Learn all orientations upright and then inverted. From there, 3D will become much easier.

It's a complex, costly, glow powered anti-gravity machine!
11-01-2009 10:28 PM
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