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e-Electric Batteries & Chargers > Lipo Charging Safety Questions.....
 
 
scott011422
New Heliman
Location: Sycamore, illinois

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		I know its a no-no, But I WILL be charging LiPos unattended. To be safe about it I am building a firebox to charge them in. One of the safety systems is to automaticly detach the charger from the batt if there is a fire. I can go into details if anyone is interested. The question is, Does my charger need to be in this box? If I burn up a pack, I should say when, but anyhoo, has anyone ever had the charger start fire? Thanks
10-30-2009 11:50 PM
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MrMel
rrProfessor
Location: Lidingo, Sweden (GMT+1)

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		No, chargers on the outside.
There is firesafe boxes for this purpose (expensive like...) but they exists..

Another solution would be a bag of sand (plastic bag) ontop of th lipo..

My site: http://heli.dacsa.net
10-31-2009 12:08 AM
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stanc
Key Veteran
Location: Conroe, TX

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		Another solution is to use a decent charger and don't worry about a fire.

Stan
Logo 500
Ion X2
eStratus
eAvro90
10-31-2009 01:57 PM
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Pellicle
New Heliman
Location: New York

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		Good charger is not enough

The charger is not the main issue with LiPos. It is not good advice to state "use a good charger and don't worry about fire". We don't want people losing their lives or homes due to a LiPo fire. While rare they happen. A short due to any reason can cause a fire, worn wires, bent connector, damage even invisible to the eye can cause a problem. Good practice is to use a good safe guard at a minimum a LiPo bag. Crashes are part of the RC hobby and put stress on the batteries that can lead to fires. There are even documented cases of factory defects resulting in some of the infamous cell and laptop LiPo fires. A good charger is not enough nor a safeguard. Let's not put people in dangers way.
10-31-2009 02:26 PM
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kcordell
Veteran
Location: O Fallon, MO

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		I know this answer will get bashed, and I don't care what the battery/charger supplies say, NEVER, NEVER charge over 1C.

Let the bashing begin.

Team Futaba, Miniature Aircraft Pilot, YS Engines, VelTye
10-31-2009 04:13 PM
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MrMel
rrProfessor
Location: Lidingo, Sweden (GMT+1)

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		Doesnt matter 0.5c or 2c if the wrong thing happens it happens anyway.

Been charging 2c last few years.

Regardless its not a complete solution either

never charge faster than 1c with 'not good' charger though

My site: http://heli.dacsa.net
10-31-2009 04:34 PM
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MrMel
rrProfessor
Location: Lidingo, Sweden (GMT+1)

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		The only true rule that actually works is:

Never charge unattended.

My site: http://heli.dacsa.net
10-31-2009 04:50 PM
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fenderstrat
rrProfessor
Location: Aston,Pa

My Posts This: Topic  Forum
Quote 
A short due to any reason can cause a fire, worn wires, bent connector, damage even invisible to the eye can cause a problem.

and these problems can cause an issue while charging ANY type of battery,not just lipos.why do people freak out about lipos??if you follow common sense and all of the rules,they are perfectly safe.

a lipo will swell long before it ignites,if you are keeping an eye on your batts while charging,you would see any problems LONG before it causes a fire.

new generation chargers and batteries have made lipo fires very very rare.its to the point now where you have to almost TRY to do something wrong or be totally negligent

Quote 
There are even documented cases of factory defects resulting in some of the infamous cell and laptop LiPo fires.

exactly,and is everyone out there charging their phones and laptops in a lipos sack,in a cement bunker,encased in steel, hidden in the remorte hills of south dakota

PerformancePlusRC field rep
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Mini Titan/SE
HBK2
Futaba FASST
10-31-2009 08:06 PM
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TJinGuy
Elite Veteran
Location: Socorro, NM - USA

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		Just a note but a lipo fire is no big deal unless it is near something that can ignite also. They don't blow up. They don't even move around when they ignite, they just spew smoke and sometimes fire but give them an 18in berth and they are harmless. Also charging them next to your 200 gallons of stored gasoline, 2 tons of bagged sawdust and truck load of fireworks is likely a bad idea.

- Chris

TJinTech
Team New Mexico
10-31-2009 09:23 PM
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bopshi
Heliman
Location: greenport ny

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		lipos can cause fires

I have 8 3cell lipos I am not about to sit and watch 8 batteries charge at an hour a piece. I set them on or in a cement block far away from anything flamable. If they ignite they will sit on top of cement block and burn out. A very cheap simple solution. put cement block with 3 holes on top of a flat cement block and set lipo in hole of cement block and charge away. Dave
11-01-2009 12:56 AM
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kcordell
Veteran
Location: O Fallon, MO

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		I agree. I will not sit in front of my charger and just watch until charge done. Even if you are just right in front and the 'magic smoke' starts coming out of the battery, you won't be able to save it. May save your house/car whatever, though, being very nearby is the way to go. I think they are saying by unattended, don't put them on charge and leave home for dinner. If you can smell the "magic smoke" and you are close, you can do something about it.

Team Futaba, Miniature Aircraft Pilot, YS Engines, VelTye
11-01-2009 01:02 PM
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Pellicle
New Heliman
Location: New York

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		I agree the don't charge unattended is not sufficient. Regarding cell phones etc. Cell phone LiPos are in a hard case ans even then protected in the phone. The capacity is dramatically lower thereby the danger level and the charge is at a very slow rate compared to RC LiPos. Even then there is a very rare problem. RC LiPo are put in a severe environment with bumps and vibration and no hard case as in cell phone LiPos. The capacity is much higher. For a charging induced fire due to overcharging swelling would happen most likely. But I think the note above regarding sitting for hours watching a lipo is on target. It is not gonna happen many times.

In my case I had a lipo go up. Post mortem on the remains showed balance wires under the packaging shorted. One cell just blew up. It was not visible. No warning, no puff just bang Luckily I was there and threw it out because the fumes are pretty toxic. I had on concrete so no house burning. But in the home it would have caused a raging fire pretty quick. Even without a fire the amount of fumes and smoke was tremendous - with flames shooting up about 4 feet. This was a 1800mah 3 cell battery. It had some hours on it but no apparent damage. Charger was a ThunderPower 1010 a "good" charger with the balancer in place. No beeps form one cell overcharging - nada - just boom. To compare LiPos to other batteries is absurd. Ask your battery manufacturer. Sure don't put a NiCad in the fire. But you don't get thermal runaway and the same type of chemical reaction in other batteries. NiCads, NiMh, A123, Lead acids do not have the runaway thermal reaction seen in LiPos. This is not to say some caution is required with all batteries due to the energy involved but, it is not the same. There is a reason for concern and more precautionary measures with LiPos.

There are kids and the inexperienced here on these forums - please don't lull people into very bad safety practices with misinformation.
LiPo are not the same as you normal NiCad rechargeable. RC LiPo due to the type of usage are especially problematic. It's sort of like not smoking at the gas station, Don't throw a bunch of gas on your yard pile an throw in a match. Things do go boom. But use safe practices and all will likely be OK in the rare occasion something goes wrong. Do inspect your batteries, Do use a lipo bag or some other means as mentioned above on other posts. We all use potentially dangerous materials. But don't tell people gas is the same as water. Gas burns so do LiPos . Use safe practices with both!!
11-01-2009 01:21 PM
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kcordell
Veteran
Location: O Fallon, MO

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		Right on! Point is follow recommendations, monitor (not 'watching the pot boil' and practice safe procedures, most of the time there will be no issues. I'm sure if you measured the amount of lipo accidents versus number of total charges, event the ones that charge at higher than 1C, the number is very, very small, BUT, when the accident does happen, it usually is a very damaging one.

Team Futaba, Miniature Aircraft Pilot, YS Engines, VelTye
11-01-2009 02:47 PM
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e-Electric Batteries & Chargers > Lipo Charging Safety Questions.....
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