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e-Mikado Logo 400 500 600 > Another set bites the dust
 
 
eggmcmuffinplz
Elite Veteran
Location: Los Angeles, CA

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Alright, whats up with me and thrust bearings?

25 flights ago a new set was installed-Correctly-with grease. The grips are assembled correctly, and im not sure if there are any tolerances within my machine thats making it eat 'em. There are holes in the washers where the ball bearings inside are supposed to rotate. Somethings telling me that: A. maybe the metal is soft B. maybe the grips are overtightened(highly doubt that), and they arent allowed to rotate during flight properly or C. Im just the only one with these problems



Scott D
Logo 500 3D V-bar
10-29-2009 04:36 AM
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cdrking
Elite Veteran
Location: Seattle

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That's fast to eat up thrust bearings. After you install the whole grip do they rotate completely free? Wondering if there is any notchiness to them.

Jeff

To hover is divine, the alternative is rather PLANE.
10-29-2009 04:39 AM
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eggmcmuffinplz
Elite Veteran
Location: Los Angeles, CA

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They feel very smooth, and the radial bearings are fine.

Scott D
Logo 500 3D V-bar
10-29-2009 04:40 AM
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eggmcmuffinplz
Elite Veteran
Location: Los Angeles, CA

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Pictures added.

Scott D
Logo 500 3D V-bar
10-29-2009 04:52 AM
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T-rexn8
Senior Heliman
Location: COLORADO

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Oh man. I usually see at least 100 flights and generally twice that on the thrust bearings.

Maybe the grease you are using? dampeners?

Esprit Model Flight Team- NathaN
10-29-2009 05:08 AM
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eggmcmuffinplz
Elite Veteran
Location: Los Angeles, CA

My Posts This: Topic  Forum
Im using the hard dampers, which are actually getting a little soft. And Im using boca bearing grease, plenty of it too.

Scott D
Logo 500 3D V-bar
10-29-2009 05:10 AM
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NTM
Senior Heliman
Location: Lloydminster, Alberta, Canada

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What blades, and what kind of rpm ?
10-29-2009 05:39 AM
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eggmcmuffinplz
Elite Veteran
Location: Los Angeles, CA

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Rotor tech 560s at 2300.

Scott D
Logo 500 3D V-bar
10-29-2009 06:16 AM
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T-rexn8
Senior Heliman
Location: COLORADO

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Maybe try a differnt grease and are you putting the cupped side inwards?

Esprit Model Flight Team- NathaN
10-29-2009 07:05 AM
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Terrabit
Key Veteran
Location: Seattle, WA - USA

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Eggy,

Hard dampeners can be rough on thrust bearings. Are the races pitted or are they smoothe? Can't see through the grease. If the bearing surfaces are not degraded then they are useable. Just place them back in the retainer ring, pack them in fresh grease, and reinstall them.

Or if you really want to get tricky free pack them. The retainer ring is just there as a convenience. Remove the bearings from the ring and pack an extra ball in there. You should be able to get at least one more ball in without the ring, maybe two. This will effectively distribute the load to a larger surface area which should improve funtionality.

Esprit Model Flight Team
10-29-2009 07:54 AM
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NTM
Senior Heliman
Location: Lloydminster, Alberta, Canada

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The only thing I can see doing that would be having the races out of square with the feathering spindle.
Pull the radial bearings out of the grips and insure you've got everything in order and seated properly.
Maybe try a different feathering spindle too, in case that one is a bit to short at the ends and putting too much preload on the thrusts.

Regards,
Nathan
10-29-2009 04:57 PM
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VooDooX
Key Veteran
Location: San Francisco Bay Area CA, US (San Mateo)

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free pack bearings? wow i didn't know you could do that makes sense tho does it increase performance any? or is it just a fix for his problem?

99.9999999999999% of an atom is empty space
10-29-2009 06:25 PM
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Terrabit
Key Veteran
Location: Seattle, WA - USA

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Relatively speaking, ball bearing retainer rings are new. I think it was 30 years ago or so that they appeared in automobiles. Before that, all bearings were packed free. I was a bicycle mechanic for a Seattle messenger service in another life. In my relentless persuit of perfection (cough cough, uh OCD) I removed the rings and added bearings. It does make a difference - especially in the old-school bottom brackets, headsets, and hubs of messenger bikes who see an average of 30 to 50 miles and more each day in every kind of weather (mostly rain).

I routinely performed minor miracles on a fleet of over thirty bikes in some unconventional ways. Even so, my little shop still moved more parts annually than any other bicycle shop in the city.

Good times!

To answer your question, yes. It does increase performance - provided you do it correctly. Conversely, it increases the margin for error. The retainer ring is idiot proof. If you free pack you bearings you just have to make sure they're properly seated. Once they are in there they can't come out on their own.

Esprit Model Flight Team
10-29-2009 07:28 PM
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Terrabit
Key Veteran
Location: Seattle, WA - USA

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Scott, I think what you're running into is an overly tight bearing. You wouldn't necessarily feel that in a new, freshly greased installation. I'd guess that something is creating a preload. Some part in the headblock, grips, shaft or bearings might be machined slightly off spec or the dampeners could be at fault.

The head and tail bearings are different from others in your heli in the sense that they rotate to whatever pitch you input from your radio and then return to the exact same location every time. That's why you'll tend to see the uniform pitting in the race.

Esprit Model Flight Team
10-29-2009 07:47 PM
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eggmcmuffinplz
Elite Veteran
Location: Los Angeles, CA

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Ive tried both soft and hard dampers. I have an extra set of thrust bearings, and a spare head hand, Ill try the second head, and Ill try to eliminate parts that might cause it.

Hmm, the radial bearings are installed and seated correctly.

Scott D
Logo 500 3D V-bar
10-29-2009 11:42 PM
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T-rexn8
Senior Heliman
Location: COLORADO

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What about the washer in between the radial and thrust?

Esprit Model Flight Team- NathaN
10-30-2009 12:02 AM
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Terrabit
Key Veteran
Location: Seattle, WA - USA

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Is the pitting on the inside or outside race, both, or all four? Is the pitting even around the race(s)?

Esprit Model Flight Team
10-30-2009 12:23 AM
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eggmcmuffinplz
Elite Veteran
Location: Los Angeles, CA

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Like I said, the grips were installed correctly(maybe I should add: By the manual's instructions).

Pitting is on the inside race and is not all even.

Scott D
Logo 500 3D V-bar
10-30-2009 12:27 AM
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Terrabit
Key Veteran
Location: Seattle, WA - USA

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Okay, so that points me in a different direction. With that bit of information I suspect the races are not seating correctly - not perpendicular to the feathering shaft, or the end of the feathering shaft is not true. If it were simply a matter of being tight and the races were parallel you should see uniform wear around the race. Try replacing the affected grip and innards with one of your spares and be certain that the end of the feathering shaft is not out of square.

Like Nathan suggested, pull the bearing assebly into the affected gip with the bolt already tightened and thread locked to the shaft. And mark the all parts with a black sharpie so that you know which set is which the next time you disassemble it.

Peace!

Esprit Model Flight Team
10-30-2009 03:02 AM
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eggmcmuffinplz
Elite Veteran
Location: Los Angeles, CA

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Alright, thanks for the tip!

The set of grips I have have a 3mm bolt hole. Think that would be ok to use? And the spare spindle I have is aluminum, is that also ok to use?

Scott D
Logo 500 3D V-bar
10-30-2009 04:21 AM
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e-Mikado Logo 400 500 600 > Another set bites the dust
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