RunRyder RC Helicopter Topic - T-REX 250 Ready to give up on my T250

RR Rated M For Mature

HOME rrTV-PHOTO GALLERIES MY GALLERY HELP-FAQ

myHOME PM pmRR MEMBERS 811 ONLINE 18 EVENTS SEARCH REGISTER START HERE

2 pages [ << < ( 1 ) 2 NEXT >> ]

1118 views

POST REPLY

RCHover	.	HeliDirect	.	ReadyHeli
	.		.

e-Align T-REX 250-450-500-600 > T-REX 250 Ready to give up on my T250

ferincr
Senior Heliman
Location: San Jose, Costa Rica

My Posts This: Topic Forum

Hi guys,
This is my last attempt to get this little stubborn beast to fly. (only if you can help me).
I have a Spartan gyro with a JR 290 servo on the tail and I'll try to decribe the problem to see if anybody have any clues.

I'm running about 25% gain on it (the ball it's about 4.5mm from the servo center) and if I try to do tic tocs the tail blows.
Now if I bump up the gain to 30%, as soon as I apply rudder input when it comes to stop it wags so badly (kind of a increasing resonance) that ends up in a crash.
I rebuilt the whole tail (Microheli)to make sure the are no bindings.
I tried so many things that I can even remember them.

Today I played with the configuration parameters in the Spartan software but even lowering the stop gain (both clock wise and couter clock wise) down to 50% doesn't seem to be any different than bumping it to 200%. I know the way I did it is probably the worst way (holding the heli in my hand) since it can trigger the resonance problem but I really don't want to risk another silly crash or I'll end up stomping it.
I thought it might be the gyro so I pulled on of the Spartans from my bigger helis and copied the setting to it but same thing happened.

Does anybody have any clues??? I know I should give you a lot more info but I don't even know where to start from so if you feel like helping please ask away.

I'm so mind numbed by now that I hope it is some really stupid mistake I'm making.
Thanks in advance,
Fernando

Intelligence chases me, but I'm a lot faster! Fernando

10-28-2009 11:13 PM

PROFILE PM EMAIL POSTS BUDDY IGNORE GALLERY

integy2
Heliman
Location: Walnut, California USA

My Posts This: Topic Forum

tail servo need to be 3500G,DS520,HS-5084MG.
mini size servo is too small for 3D.

integy2

10-28-2009 11:21 PM

PROFILE PM EMAIL POSTS BUDDY IGNORE HOMEPAGE GALLERY

rocco.sj
Senior Heliman
Location: San Jose,CA

My Posts This: Topic Forum

check out this web site at www.bertrc.com there is a info and videos on how to run the spartan gyro gain on the T250.i would strongly follow his setup to road to happiness!!lol.

Team RF Frequency.

10-28-2009 11:45 PM

PROFILE PM EMAIL POSTS BUDDY IGNORE

ferincr
Senior Heliman
Location: San Jose, Costa Rica

My Posts This: Topic Forum

Thanks for the link, I'll try those settings.

To Integy2,
I understand that may be for real 3D you want a better servo but this servo should be ok for mild flying.
I can't even do that, if I do a pirouete while hovering the whole hell breaks loose.

Intelligence chases me, but I'm a lot faster! Fernando

10-29-2009 12:34 AM

PROFILE PM EMAIL POSTS BUDDY IGNORE GALLERY

Spitfire1
Key Veteran
Location: Perth Australia

My Posts This: Topic Forum

Quote
as soon as I apply rudder input when it comes to stop it wags so badly (kind of a increasing resonance)

I dont know much about these things, but I was always under the impression thats what you use the delay for when that happens, allthough its not something Ive ever needed to mess with so far.

10-29-2009 07:07 AM

PROFILE PM EMAIL POSTS BUDDY IGNORE GALLERY

JamesV
Senior Heliman
Location: Savannah

My Posts This: Topic Forum

you do not need a 3500G or larger servo for the 250. people put these big servos on it and its just not a must. a properly set up tail will work just fine on a 290. You could have binding issues, the tail rod could be flexing, ect. Also are you setting up the tail mechanically in rate mode? ( I know let the fighting begin about "how this isnt a must with a spartan"

This is a crucial step when running a 290. Here is a video I made today with my 250 running the stock align gyro and JR 290 servo. As you can see I have no problems with the tail.

http://vimeo.com/7319110

James VanHook
Performance Plus RC Rep
Phantomhobby.com

10-29-2009 07:32 AM

PROFILE PM EMAIL POSTS BUDDY IGNORE HOMEPAGE GALLERY

ferincr
Senior Heliman
Location: San Jose, Costa Rica

My Posts This: Topic Forum

Quote
you do not need a 3500G or larger servo for the 250

I was 99% sure of that, but since I'm seeking for help here it didn't feel right or polite to dosmiss the first person chipping in with that statement (especially when I'm having problems to which I have no clue how to solve

).

So a bit more info,
The tail rod is inside a CF tube, and the gyro has been setted as per (even though not my favorite person)Finless video.
I'm using a Futaba 12FG tx with it.
Oh! and the 37mm batman tail blades...

Great flying on the video!!! If I could make mine fly like that I would consider keeping it...

Intelligence chases me, but I'm a lot faster! Fernando

10-29-2009 03:16 PM

PROFILE PM EMAIL POSTS BUDDY IGNORE GALLERY

USNAviationjay
Elite Veteran
Location: Sugar Land Tx USA

My Posts This: Topic Forum

Bert K flat told me to dump my 290 and run a 9257 on my tail.
he said the 290 is a pretty crappy servo that does some strange things.

He helped me replace mine with a 9257 and all my tail issues disappeared.
he also did not recommend using the stock gyro either.

with the 9257 on there and a good gyro the T250 begins to handle more like a 450.

I'm sorry but Bert helped design the thing. he knows what to do. I'll listen to him.

NextD Rave, T700N x2, Velocity 50, Trex 250

10-29-2009 03:22 PM

PROFILE PM EMAIL POSTS BUDDY IGNORE GALLERY

JamesV
Senior Heliman
Location: Savannah

My Posts This: Topic Forum

Not trying to start a pissing match here, and everyone is different with different likes and result. I just wanted to post that it is possible to use the 290 and post a little proof that a 290 will work.

James VanHook
Performance Plus RC Rep
Phantomhobby.com

10-29-2009 03:29 PM

PROFILE PM EMAIL POSTS BUDDY IGNORE HOMEPAGE GALLERY

ferincr
Senior Heliman
Location: San Jose, Costa Rica

My Posts This: Topic Forum

Well, I surely hope I'm not the cause of any pissing match

I can see both sides.
I normally try to get as much (quality) gear as I can on my helis (even though I know it doesn't make you any better pilot).
I also know that if you are good enough you can pretty much fly any gear.
I think with this heli I'm kind of in the middle, I'm not as good as a pilot as I can see in James video, but in the other hand I'm not talking about doing any of those manouvers.
USNAviationjay, is interesting what you say about the 290 ("is a pretty crappy servo that does some strange things" ) if it tend to do crappy things randomly, may be I got a lemon and that's the root of the problem.
Funny thing is that BertK has a setup for it on his WWW (linked above).
I'm wondering now if I should try a different servo, but I'm kind of reluctanct to put any more money on this heli.
I have a few hitec HS 81MG laying around, should I try one of those??? or they are too slow?

Operating Voltage: 4.8-6.0 Volts
Operating Speed (4.8V): 0.11sec/60° at no load
Operating Speed (6.0V): 0.09sec/60° at no load
Stall Torque (4.8V): 36.10 oz/in. (2.6kg.cm)
Stall Torque (6.0V): 41.66 oz/in. (3kg.cm)

Intelligence chases me, but I'm a lot faster! Fernando

10-29-2009 03:52 PM

PROFILE PM EMAIL POSTS BUDDY IGNORE GALLERY

deafheliflyer
Key Veteran
Location: Arizona

My Posts This: Topic Forum

FWIW,

Ive had THREE T250's since they came out.. Sold each one because I never could get the tail to work correctly...I was using 420, 290G, HS81, among others..... Pissed the heck out of me.. UNTIL...

my current setup is really awesome.

45C packs
Scorpion 3900
16t
mini jazz 85% governed
Spartan
3500G..

I agree, a mini-servo (3500G or 9257) is the way to go, I could never figure out why.. I always got some wag with the stock servo and the JR290G...

I have absobutely NO tail issues whatsoever and it will take whatever I throw at it.. It is soo good that I can fly it in 15 mph winds with ease..

Just my opinion.

Crash-Prone and overcoming it!!!

10-29-2009 04:03 PM

PROFILE PM EMAIL POSTS BUDDY IGNORE GALLERY

himaxkeith
Senior Heliman
Location: Atlantic City NJ. USA

My Posts This: Topic Forum

Dont know to much about the 250 size ESC. But if it has a governer mode setup in it. Try to reprogram the ESC and turn the gov. mode off and see if that helps with your tail issues. On my 500 ESP it caused alot of trouble shooting and tinkering trying to get the tail to work. Turned off the governer and poof problem gone.

10-29-2009 04:12 PM

PROFILE PM EMAIL POSTS BUDDY IGNORE

ferincr
Senior Heliman
Location: San Jose, Costa Rica

My Posts This: Topic Forum

Hi himaxkeith,
I'm using a CC Phoenix 25 ESC, do you think I should give it a try too????
Somebody else here sugested the famous chinese weights, any thoughts on those ones

Intelligence chases me, but I'm a lot faster! Fernando

10-29-2009 06:49 PM

PROFILE PM EMAIL POSTS BUDDY IGNORE GALLERY

JamesV
Senior Heliman
Location: Savannah

My Posts This: Topic Forum

I run the tail blade grips from align that have the weights built in. If you are running the castle speed control disable the gov. It will make the motor pulse and will cause the same non holding tail you are talking about.

James VanHook
Performance Plus RC Rep
Phantomhobby.com

10-29-2009 06:55 PM

PROFILE PM EMAIL POSTS BUDDY IGNORE HOMEPAGE GALLERY

integy2
Heliman
Location: Walnut, California USA

My Posts This: Topic Forum

stock gyro + 3500G will works.
so many people at the field got the same good result.

integy2

10-29-2009 06:59 PM

PROFILE PM EMAIL POSTS BUDDY IGNORE HOMEPAGE GALLERY

ferincr
Senior Heliman
Location: San Jose, Costa Rica

My Posts This: Topic Forum

Updates

Ok, I got to try the 250 today again, after the total rebuild and downloading the gyro settings from B. Kammerer's page and adjusted the gyro gain on the TX.
I couldn'y fly it much because it started to rain a bit it was a bit windy too and I didn't want to crash it again so soon.
Anyway, it flies, not 100% happy with it yet but didn't do that crazy bouncing tail it used to (unless I bump up the gain another 2%, it's at 28% now).
As I said I could not push it too much but before I didn't even need to just a pirouette and that was it.
What I noticed now is that one way it pirouette ok but the other way (I wish now I would have paid more attention to which side) the pirouette is not smooth, it goes in bumps

.
Also I need to bump up the piro rate which it's still confusing to me with the Fut.12 FG (I'm pretty sure I need to increase the travel option on the end point menu). Unfortunatelly I'm not going to be able to do any more tweaking for a couple of weeks due to work so I better make a little post it note so I remember where do I stand.

Intelligence chases me, but I'm a lot faster! Fernando

11-02-2009 02:11 AM

PROFILE PM EMAIL POSTS BUDDY IGNORE GALLERY

knightofcarnage
Senior Heliman
Location: chicago

My Posts This: Topic Forum

ferincr did you strip the tail to be silver or did it come silver?

11-02-2009 03:30 AM

PROFILE PM EMAIL POSTS BUDDY IGNORE

himaxkeith
Senior Heliman
Location: Atlantic City NJ. USA

My Posts This: Topic Forum

Looking at your photos. Did you take both photos at the same time without moving the servo or tail? Because the tail linkage looks correct at 90*. But the servo horn is off from center. Might be causing some problems too.

11-02-2009 04:07 AM

PROFILE PM EMAIL POSTS BUDDY IGNORE

ferincr
Senior Heliman
Location: San Jose, Costa Rica

My Posts This: Topic Forum

knightofcarnage, the tail came silver. It's a Microheli tail.

himaxkeith, good catch on the pics!!! I'll check it now, but I'm pretty sure I squared the tail with the servo at center. I'll double check just in case, there so many thing I did to it that I might have missed that one

Intelligence chases me, but I'm a lot faster! Fernando

11-02-2009 01:13 PM

PROFILE PM EMAIL POSTS BUDDY IGNORE GALLERY

Richardmid1
Key Veteran
Location: Leeds, England

My Posts This: Topic Forum

Stock 250SE, 16T pinion, Align gyro, Align DS420 tail servo:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=04cesRP26xU

My old 250 flew like this also although I had a Robbe FS 61 BB tail servo on it but still a micro servo.

Eden George born 10/03/08, future 3D Masters winner!

11-03-2009 11:27 AM

PROFILE PM EMAIL POSTS BUDDY IGNORE

2 pages [ << < ( 1 ) 2 NEXT >> ]

1118 views

POST REPLY

Power Helis	.	CANOMOD	.	Experience RC
	.		.

e-Align T-REX 250-450-500-600 > T-REX 250 Ready to give up on my T250

Print TOPIC

Advertisers

Subscribe to This Topic