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e-Align T-REX 250-450-500-600 > T-REX 250 Proper HeadSpeed for 3D???
 
 
axemanclint
Key Veteran
Location: Cypress, Tx. USA

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		Hey Everyone,
I am still new to the little 250 and learning about it still as well. I know very well what my headspeeds are on my 450 and T600E Heli's, but I am not sure what the little 250 needs to run at? I want to make sure that I run the headspeed properly for decent 3D flight, but i don't want to be running it too fast which will put unnecessary stress on the head components. I have a Headspeed calculator app on my iPhone which i use to measure the HS.

So the question is: What is the proper 3D headspeed to run on the 250, not the highest it should be, but what will allow me to 3D well enough without running a BLAZING speed and stressing the parts out prematurely?

Thanks,

-Clint

"what goes up must come down," hopefully in one piece!
10-28-2009 05:33 PM
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CompyMike
Senior Heliman
Location: sacramento, ca

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		With my 250 I just kept messing with my thottle curves till I got a nice headspeed where it wasn't too squirelly.
I would use idle1 as a safe throttle curve that I knew wasn't too high, and I would keep changing idle2 as an experimental
throttle curve that I would switch into, to try out while flying.
At first setup idle2 slightly higher than idle1 and then go up untill you like how the heli flys.

When I ran the stock motor with the 16T I would do a throttle curve like 95-80-80-80-95. Some guys do a flat curve.
It seemed with the stock motor I had to run a pretty high throttle curve to keep the motor from bogging,

Running the Scorpion now with the 15T and I'm actually running (what seems like) a lower headspeed and alot less bogging.

I also find getting the right cyclic pitch plays a big part in this too.
10-28-2009 06:22 PM
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axemanclint
Key Veteran
Location: Cypress, Tx. USA

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		Thanks Compy,
What you said makes total sense and thanks for the reply and the info. However, i am just a little afraid of the headspeed on this thing. I mean it seems like it is screaming and I only have IDL1 set at highest point around 85 or so. I am afraid I am running the HS too high and don't want to have anything come apart on me or put unneeded stress on the head assembly. I guess I am just looking for someone to give an actual NUMBER (HeadSpeed) on what this heli's head can handle before becoming dangerous to the parts and whatnot. I am thinking somewhere in the 3000 RPM range, but this is just a guess??? I really don't fly any kind of hardcore 3D, it's mostly flipping and rolling and stuff like that, which doesn't need to be super high. In fact when i am flying around the house just hovering around I have the HS REALLY! Low so it is much less sensitive and flies a little more sluggish to begin with.

Thanks,

-Clint

"what goes up must come down," hopefully in one piece!
10-28-2009 06:40 PM
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CompyMike
Senior Heliman
Location: sacramento, ca

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		I think some guys take it up to around 4500. The Trex 250 is heavy for it's size so you really need high headspeed to
get any sort of vertical performance. When I fly around in my backyard I have my normal mode setup really low and I have
dual rates setup on my ale and ele.

So as long as your tracking is good and you are not getting any weird vibrations then you should be good. I was never able
to tach my 250. Not sure if there is a tach that goes high enough to measure it.

Are you running the stock motor?
What pinion?
CF main blades?
10-28-2009 06:56 PM
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rocco.sj
Senior Heliman
Location: San Jose,CA

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		get the new align sp motor and use a 16 pinion and run it on idle 1 at 80% V curve and idle 2 at 90% V curve.it's pretty tameable and not too fast doing hurricanes and other manuvers.don't know the headspeed,never tacked it,but would assume it would be in a ranged at 3000 to 3500 headspeed.

Team RF Frequency.
10-28-2009 07:04 PM
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axemanclint
Key Veteran
Location: Cypress, Tx. USA

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		Thanks again guys, all gret info. I am not sure on the pinion or motor. I bought this thing used from a buddy of mine. I'll have to go back and check it when I get home. I am running the align carbon fiber blades though on it. They are awesome, but this little heli is hard to track right with such small linkages and since the blade grip linkages don't even adjust. Getting the tail setup is a whole other issue I am having and I am going to write another topic on that one.

"what goes up must come down," hopefully in one piece!
10-28-2009 08:46 PM
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CompyMike
Senior Heliman
Location: sacramento, ca

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		It can take some tweaking to get this 250 right, but it is well worth it. Don't forget helifreak.com for info too.
10-28-2009 09:03 PM
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Richardmid1
Key Veteran
Location: Leeds, England

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		If you have no head vibrations the 250 is fine upto 5500rpm, most people run 4500-5000. The 250 NEEDS high headspeed or it will just fall out of the sky like a brick. The lowest I would go is running the stock 15T pinion at 100% flat.

This is the least scary heli I have flown even at over 5000rpm.

Eden George born 10/03/08, future 3D Masters winner!
10-28-2009 10:44 PM
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axemanclint
Key Veteran
Location: Cypress, Tx. USA

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		Cool! Yeah, i am pretty excited about this thing, so far it is great even without being fully setup yet. I am working on the setup gradually, but it is getting there.

Thanks guys,

-Clint

"what goes up must come down," hopefully in one piece!
10-29-2009 05:08 AM
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hydev
Heliman
Location: Denby Dale, UK

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		Whats the name of the app for the iphone - would like to try it.

thanks

Mike
11-05-2009 10:27 AM
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Richardmid1
Key Veteran
Location: Leeds, England

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		You and your bloody iPhone!

Eden George born 10/03/08, future 3D Masters winner!
11-05-2009 10:46 AM
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hydev
Heliman
Location: Denby Dale, UK

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		And who uses it at the field? :-)
11-05-2009 10:56 AM
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Richardmid1
Key Veteran
Location: Leeds, England

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		Yeah you gotta love redtube!

Eden George born 10/03/08, future 3D Masters winner!
11-05-2009 02:17 PM
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axemanclint
Key Veteran
Location: Cypress, Tx. USA

My Posts This: Topic  Forum
Quote 
Whats the name of the app for the iphone - would like to try it.

thanks

Mike

The App is called "HeliTach"

It's great! seems to work really well. Check it out.

Cheers,

-Clint

"what goes up must come down," hopefully in one piece!
11-05-2009 03:55 PM
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coolice
Key Veteran
Location: Northamptonshire, England

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		Hi Clint,

Just to give another perspective buddy, from my own experiments I've actaully found the 15T pinion on the stock motor to be the best setup for me, the model is more than aggresive enough (although I am using very lite Torsion paddles and their flexy main blades) and I had to turn the CCPM mixing percentages down to feel comfortable with the model. I let Duncan Osbourne try my little 250 not long after I'd fitted the lite paddles and blades and even he commented that the cyclic was just too twitchy to be comfortable.

Out of curiosity I did try the 16T pinion with the stock motor and while the head speed went up I certainly didn't feel any real advantage to it, in fact for me I felt it was a negative as I lost 1 minutes worth of 3D flying.
Using 800mah packs, 15T pinion/stock motor I have my timer set to 4:10 minutes and it's spot on for aggresive 3D.

Also bear in mind that with a higher head speed your tail rotor setup/gyro gains will need altering again

From an ESC's perspective and to get maximum efficiency you need to be running at 100% power at all times, definetly no lower than 80% throttle. Reason being any less commanded power than 100% is wasted power from the battery, running at 80% throttle means the ESC is having to burn off 20% power through the FET's. This creates heat which, in extreme cases where people have run even lower throttle settings for extended periods can cause the ESC to fail.
Ideally run your ESC at 100% power and gear the model with the right pinion to attain the maximum head speed yo're looking to run.
.

Ian Contessa
Team Robbe SchluterUK
11-06-2009 09:51 AM
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DKTek
Veteran
Location: Melbourne, FL-USA

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		Interesting Coolice,

I finally ran mine at 100% and you're right. Less temps on the ESC and battery. Although I like the way it handles towards the end when it loses a few rpm. My poor attempt at 3D seems smoother and under better control. It's a lot less figity.

The beatings will continue until morale improves...
11-08-2009 03:13 PM
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axemanclint
Key Veteran
Location: Cypress, Tx. USA

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		Thanks coolice,
Wow what a write up. Thanks everyone. Yeah I am still messing with my settings, but this little thing is pretty locked in there now. I am having so much fun with this thing now. The headspeed is interesting to work with. I have noticed with my Align 3s 860 mah batteries that after only about 2 minutes the power decreases a lot. And the headspeed drops down quite a bit, is this pretty normal with all of you on this little guy?

Thanks to everyone again who helped me get this thing sorted out.

Cheers,

Clint

"what goes up must come down," hopefully in one piece!
11-08-2009 03:42 PM
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dieselracer
Senior Heliman
Location: vista CA

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		I got a chance to tach a Pro's 250, and it came in at 5000RPM.

Blade CPP from hell. powered by NEU, T600 12S
11-08-2009 03:54 PM
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coolice
Key Veteran
Location: Northamptonshire, England

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		Hey DKTek,

Cool, a field test.
This is good as you've seen the effect of running lower throttle settings on an ESC which is a good exercise.
Kontronik ESC's I have heard can run low throttle percentages to set the right govenor speed, without any adverse effects due to heat build up, like that which other makers ESC's would experience.

Another way to look at these effects is to take a look at how a water tap works, if said tap is only open 80% then there is 20% of back pressure building up going to waste.
As you've seen an ESC can only deal with the difference between 80% and 100% throttle by converting this unused 20% power into heat using the FET's.

Hi Clint,

LOL, I can chat for ever about helicopters
.

Ian Contessa
Team Robbe SchluterUK
11-08-2009 05:17 PM
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DKTek
Veteran
Location: Melbourne, FL-USA

My Posts This: Topic  Forum

Clint, I run the TP910 3S V2 Lites. At 6 minutes, I put back around 650 -700mah.

I also have another 250 with the scale H500E fuse, which takes two of these packs up front to balance. Running one at a time with the extra weight, I set my timer at 5 minutes and still put back the same amount. With the 100% ESC setting, maybe now I'll tie the two packs together with a Y connector and run for 10-12 minutes. Before, I didn't due to the heat and gave it a cool down between flights. I'll post the results when I can.



The beatings will continue until morale improves...
11-08-2009 06:19 PM
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e-Align T-REX 250-450-500-600 > T-REX 250 Proper HeadSpeed for 3D???
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