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Power Helis . CANOMOD . Experience RC

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Off Topics > Just had an email asking for an apology from Imafanz
 
 
Charlie
Veteran
Location: New Brunswick, Canada

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Quote 
Just too many "so called Experts" here with "zero" real life experience on the subject, to make this a worthwhile discussion.
10-30-2009 10:24 AM
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555Ron
Heliman
Location: NSW, Australia

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I would just like to add that if it is a windy day and your club is located on the edge of a cliff, you don't need an engine. You can even throw away the tail belt, tail blades, horizontal stabilizer, the skids, and the canopy. In fact, if you had some really long strings and and a complex pulley system and pivots you could throw away all your radio gear (no batteries, servo's) and control it like a puppet on a string - and it would still be a remote control helicopter.

I will draw a prototype if someone wants to construct it and check the feasibility of my modifications??? It is as yet untested...
10-30-2009 10:59 AM
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GimbalFan
rrProfessor
Location: Copter County, Nv

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Quote 
I will draw a prototype if someone wants to construct it and check the feasibility of my modifications???
<raises hand>

Quote 
It is as yet untested...
So is this unopened bottle of Cuervo 1800 Tequila and this unsmoked Hav-A-Tampa Jewel Vanilla Cigar.

op-thwõp-thwõp-thwõp-thwõp-thwõp-thwõp-thwõp-thwõp-thwõp-thwõp-thwõp-thwõp-t
10-30-2009 11:02 AM
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Mutt
Key Veteran
Location: M ca usa

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Quote 
If you think you need a heli stand chances are you need to learn more
So your saying because I have one of these I need to learn more? hmm How does a stand which is used to setup and assemble clean etc mean a person needs to learn more? explain that one to me please. Now if your talking about this lazy susan thing this guy built that is a different discussion but a stand is a complete different thing from his item.
I love my stand for working on my helis.

http://www.centuryheli.com/products...=CN2227¤tid=246
10-30-2009 01:41 PM
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A. Bundy
Elite Veteran
Location: Aurora,IL. 30W/SW of Chicago

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Quote 
Just too many "so called Experts" here with "zero" real life experience on the subject, to make this a worthwhile discussion.
lol
10-30-2009 02:00 PM
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Blade_Master1
Elite Veteran
Location: Canada

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alfred
Don't be jealous
I do have the experience and most will agree with my statements

Mutt
are you using that to run your heli up to speed ?
check out the video posted earlier

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10-30-2009 02:14 PM
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Mutt
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Location: M ca usa

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nope blade master I dont but a stand is one thing and what he is making and selling I wouldnt consider a stand. not sure what I would call it but a over priced waste of time in my book. just wanted to make sure you were not lumping a real heli stand into the same catagory as this thing this guy is doing. as far as needing his lazy susan thing I myself cant see any use for it or that it is that safe to use. I know I would never use it but if someone else does hey more power to them it just isnt for me. I also have to agree with you on the setup I have had several setups with the tracking perfect off the bench. It is called taking time to make sure everything is perfect.
10-30-2009 03:42 PM
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Blade_Master1
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Location: Canada

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glad we cleared that misunderstanding

whatever he wants to call that box.
I believe it is just another way to get newbies into trouble

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10-30-2009 03:50 PM
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Imafanz
New Heliman
Location: New zealand

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Time for a comment from me.

Hi everyone, I'm Philip Souter of Imafanz.Ltd. There are many things that are being said here, and in other threads, that without a little thought can be considered true yet if approached with a little logic can be shown otherwise. I'm not writing this to knock anyone, just so those people may look at things from a different perspective.

First I'll cover the cost of the test stand in US dollars. The rotator is not made with a lazy suzan rotating bearing. It is a purpose built super heavy bearing made by an engineering company in Christchurch. Not cheap. The tread plate on top is a specialized tread plate and highly polished, not cheap. Take into account the time to make one which is a normal part of costing a product, the glue, screws, bolts, nuts, paint and everything else overall and you start to understand the cost involved. I then have to make a slight profit to make it viable to produce and to make a living. The biggest part of the price though with the price in USD INCLUDES freight from New Zealand to the USA - not cheap.
Can you make one for $20USD? probably. Could you make one the same as the one I'm selling for $20USD, no. Could you make a living from making one for $20USD, no.

Regarding safety, can it be dangerous? The stand itself, no. The way it is operated, yes. I can't control that. It's up to the common sense of the operator. Put a new driver into a vehicle, can it be dangerous, the vehicle itself no, the way it is operated, yes. It's up to the common sense and knowledge of the operator.

Regarding ground effect, resonance, flying apart, screws coming loose
etc etc. If everything is done properly and the testing is conducted with common sense there is very little risk. Is there some risk, yes but then just flying a RC helicopter involves some risk. Common sense must prevail. If there is none, anything right up to the worst possible scenario is possible.

Getting newbies into trouble? If they are that way inclined it will happen one way or another with or without my test stand. I'm sure there have been many newbies seriously hurt by simply trying to fly a RC heli for the first time, should RC helicopters be removed from the market because of this? Once again, common sense must prevail.

Regarding NZ_Nitro. I don't know the man but in research he seems to be quite good, and has a history of, causing some disturbance amongst the heli community in New Zealand and on all these forum sites. This all started when he placed some silly comments on an auction I ran in New Zealand. I approached the site management who run the site regarding this and deemed the comments inappropriate as I did. They dealt with this and on advice from that site I banned NZ_Nitro from my auctions. He then started this campaign of starting threads all over the place for what I can only assume is an attempt to get back at me for that action. He has started all these threads and then emailed me each time saying someone else has started them and to go and see how I'm getting trashed. He has never approached me directly and asked sensible questions or even asked questions on these threads, simply made statements which if researched properly can be proven to be false and without thought. What is disturbing is that so many others buy into, and can't see past his actions, to the point where such threads become hate threads instead of dealing with the topic with sensible discussion. I suppose that's just the way things are sometimes. It's very sad to see it happen and in my mind destroys the good things involved with this great hobby.

Regarding my business, yes, those that make comments it's 'A wet dream' 'It'll never work' 'I'm an idiot' 'waste of time' etc etc as far as those people are concerned it won't and is the very reason many things don't turn into reality. Is the concept really that bad and horrible that it deserves to be destroyed before it even gets started? If it was in place now and was being supported and encouraged what would your feelings be about it then?

Cheers
Phil, Imafanz
11-02-2009 12:30 AM
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alfred
Veteran
Location: Australia, New South Wales, Mid North Coast

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Quote 
alfred
Don't be jealous
I do have the experience and most will agree with my statements

Okay
I bite
Jealous of what?
Experience? I go back to GMP Cricket time and when the Falcon 888 was sort of number one.
Am I showing my age?
11-02-2009 12:43 AM
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Blade_Master1
Elite Veteran
Location: Canada

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Glad to finaly hear both sides

Good luck with your venture

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11-02-2009 12:43 AM
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NZ_Nitro
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Location: New Zealand

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Ok then

Time to respond to this person, nothing wrong with healthy debate, I will look at things as a whole
#1 this paticular person has contacted my ISP threatening them with legal action due to the threads I have started, perhaps a little uncalled for?

#2 THE HELICOPTER
Lets look at things clearly, a raptor 90 at full throttle (he states they can run at full throttle) produces the following reactions, say a head speed of 2000 rpm, that equates to a tip speed of around 600 kmh, the pull from the centre is about 120-130 kg depending on your blades. HP? around about 3-4 hp depending on the setup

#3 THE SKIDS
Usually made of plastic, some have CF skids but there is alot of helis out there with plastic skids, the design of a skid is to first of all support a heli during spool up, provide some shock absorbing qualities as it goes through several resonating stages (we have all seen this on spool up), is has some shock absorbing qualities on the vertical decent and will flex to provide this, the skids also help some with orientation in the air

they are NOT designed to have a VIBRATING vertical load pulling on them and in fact they are held on by 4 small self tapping screws
THIS IS A FACT YOU CANT IGNORE OR DISPUTE

THE STAND
I can only assume its well built however it could be the most expensive or even gold plated, you still cant get away from the above statement about the skids

Phil I do wish you well with your "airport venture" however I have no idea how you will get enough funding, what I dont like is the selling of a product like yours to perhaps a newbie who may end up hurting themselves or someone near to them

If your product was the best way to set up a heli someone else would have done it, if you are new to helis then please get some advice from an expert

Can you imagine the forces involved in a new heli someone has set up badly tracking? then you tie it down containing the forces into the frame? the energy will go somewhere perhaps in a thrown blade or frame?
11-02-2009 04:45 AM
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Blade_Master1
Elite Veteran
Location: Canada

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Quote 
they are NOT designed to have a VIBRATING vertical load pulling on them and in fact they are held on by 4 small self tapping screws
THIS IS A FACT YOU CANT IGNORE OR DISPUTE

Mine have 4mm bolts hold my LG on with big washers
I built a few others that have decent LG to frame bolts and hardware

although I'm sure you are reffering to plastic frame heli

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11-02-2009 05:04 AM
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Brokenlink
Key Veteran
Location: Oakdale,Ca.

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Sounds like NZ_Nitro doesn't have enough business of his own to mind,so he has got to mind someone elses.

"Experience is a hard teacher because she gives the test first, the lesson afterwards
11-02-2009 02:14 PM
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NZ_Nitro
Veteran
Location: New Zealand

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so

Quote 
Sounds like NZ_Nitro doesn't have enough business of his own to mind
you think this is safe and will cause no danger to anyone?

Quote 
See rule 5 for building from the RWMAA:
Rick



Top 10 Safety Rules for Building

1. Always isolate (e.g. with heatshrink or tape) each LiPo wire while soldering on the other one to avoid a short circuit.
2. Verify your transmitter is on, the right model is selected, and throttle-hold is on prior to powering up the aircraft. Make sure the throttle is a position that gives zero or slightly negative pitch to your blades.
3. Program your ESC to “Soft Start” to give yourself time to react should the throttle be accidentally turned on.
4. Leave your motor wires detached while setting up the cyclic servos, gyro and tail servo. Remove main blades when first powering up your motor.
* Verify correct movement of all controls.
* Get help from an experienced pilot if you are not sure how.
5. Avoid tying your aircraft down for powered testing.
6. Use braid, rubber, or something similar to protect wiring from shorting against the frame.
7. Never connect your LiPo to the frame without using a current limiting resistor or equivalent.
8. Use high quality parts and best practice component placement to assure interference free operation.
* Use transmitters/receivers designed to minimize interference.
* Isolate high current noisy components (Main Battery, ESC, and motor) from low current parts (Antenna, Battery, gyro, gyro controller, and receiver).
9. Always use threadlock on all metal to metal screws and CA on metal to plastic screws.
10. Never hold your aircraft with your hands while spun up (e.g. while tracking).


Top 10 Safety Rules for Flying

1. Verify your transmitter is on, the right model is selected, and throttle-hold is on prior to powering up the aircraft.
2. Always range check your transmitter and receiver after new builds and crashes.
3. Always perform a preflight inspection of the entire helicopter and perform regular maintenance.
4. Always keep at least 20 feet from any spun up aircraft (30 feet for a Turbine).
* This precludes flying indoors unless in a huge area.
* This precludes crawling under your aircraft to remove power.
* This precludes launching or touching a flying aircraft.
5. Always fly within your knowledge level by learning new moves on a simulator.
6. Never fly alone and always have a spotter.
7. Always know where all bystanders and animals are and never fly within 65 feet of anywhere you think they could end up (land if necessary).
8. Never fly over roads, near power lines, over your head, behind you or over water unless you have floats.
9. Know how to kill your engine (Throttle Hold on electric, choke on a Gasser, pulled fuel line on a Nitro).
10. Always have access to a first aid kit, a phone, and a CO2 fire extinguisher for Turbines.

11-02-2009 06:14 PM
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Brokenlink
Key Veteran
Location: Oakdale,Ca.

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Here ya go,go to the bottom of the page under other tips,send this guy some emails,tell him what you think.
http://www.cuttingedgecnc.com/rcstartingout.htm

"Experience is a hard teacher because she gives the test first, the lesson afterwards
11-02-2009 06:45 PM
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Stet
Elite Veteran
Location: Long Beach CA

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1) A helicopter will rip itself off the skids soon enough.

2) This is a pointless tool, do it in the air.

This topic has a long history with a common conclusion. Bad idea. Period.

Here we go again.......................

How do I know?

See, I am a mechanical engineer.

I made a similar setup, despite being warned explicitly not to do so by some old fart heli guys. See they don't have engineering degrees like I do.

You see, I am an engineer, and my helicopter is perfectly balanced.

And I am using common sense, and I am very careful.

And it worked just as I expected, for many iterations.

Then it freakin' exploded one time in about a millisecond.

When the helicopter is in a clamped or pinned condition, it is in an unnatural state of operation. The helicopter cannot shed the vibration in the same way, instead it is bounced back from the ground. Just like the Chinook video.

It is a big ball of kinetic energy balanced on a complex spring-mass-damper system. The slightest oscillation will amplify itself exponentially. That means from perfectly smooth to a flying chunk of crap headed who knows where. Minus the skids which stay nicely on the gyzmo.

No I have not written a letter to Ray. Yes his book is awesome, with this single exception.

And I am not the only one out there who was "smarter" than all those who warned me/us. This is a common stupid thing to do.

So go ahead and take your chances, or better yet market a product that will cause (eventually) a heli to explode with undefined liability.

If you do it in the middle of a field, with everyone 50 feet away, I suppose it is ok and the risk is mitigated by "common sense". But exactly what does this do that you can not do in a hover or climb out test?

Yeah yeah, say what you will, and F-me too (beat you to it). This warning is as old as the trees, go ahead and ignore it. After all, I ignored it until I finally accomplished what I thought for sure would not happen.

Why should I expect any different of you? Go to town.

keepin' it real
11-03-2009 05:25 AM
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NZ_Nitro
Veteran
Location: New Zealand

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guess that proves

what we all are saying, I would hate to see someone get hurt by this
11-03-2009 05:29 AM
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WillyS
Heliman
Location: HOBART, OK USA

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Quote 
I would hate to see someone get hurt by this

I would hate too see it rain to spoil another day flying but it will.Quit your boo-hooing and leave the lad make a buck.

And quit bucking the system for petes sake,blade_master and dood know way more than anyone on rr,just ask them .Most of the time you don't have to ask them anything they just butt their 2cents worth of stupidity in as you have already seen.
11-03-2009 05:43 AM
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NZ_Nitro
Veteran
Location: New Zealand

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having a bad day

willie
11-03-2009 07:02 AM
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4 pages [ <<    <     1      2     ( 3 )     4     NEXT    >> ]1847 viewsTOPIC CLOSED
Heli-Max . Hobby Hut . Heli Wholesaler

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Off Topics > Just had an email asking for an apology from Imafanz
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