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Fast Lad Performance . Ace Hobby . Esprit Model

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Off Topics > Just had an email asking for an apology from Imafanz
 
 
Andy from Sandy
Key Veteran
Location: UK

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Quote 
As to the gyro, might be an idea to check the direction of it before you motor up not after.

You will find quite alot of posts on here from people who thought they would just try out the model's engine...
10-28-2009 09:51 PM
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NZ_Nitro
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Location: New Zealand

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This guy has a account on RR

and I pointed out this thread to him, I am supprised he has not come in here and commented giving his side, since when is a heli designed to be tied down and run up to full throttle? will the skids stay on? what happens if one skid lets go first? you get a face full of heli? will the rest of the drive train handle being tied down? what about the tail and boom?
10-29-2009 06:49 AM
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Charlie
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Location: New Brunswick, Canada

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With out a doubt it's dangerous (IMO), but the thing that gets me is the price. What exactly is he selling for $232 bucks? Unless a heli comes with it, he's crazy asking that much money for it . If he can actually fines somebody that will pay that much money for one he should get into Real Estate.

A lazy Susan is only $5 bucks, a 2 X 10 is another $15 bucks and a hand full of screws and 10 minutes of work and you have the same thing.

10-29-2009 08:58 AM
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Seablade
Key Veteran
Location: floating around

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When you do blade tracking you have a model saved as "Tracking" on your radio to use where it is zero pitch at all throttle setting so there is no chance of lift off if you dumb thumb it. Why not have a model saved for checking gyros so you know there is no lift?
What else are you doing with all those extra models available on the radio? (don't answer that one if your a heli-addict!)
As for resonance, you see it start-stop! Whats the big deal? It's a problem yes, but you control it.

"Vini, Vidi, Velcro"
10-29-2009 10:34 AM
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alfred
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Location: Australia, New South Wales, Mid North Coast

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Quote 
since when is a heli designed to be tied down and run up to full throttle? will the skids stay on? what happens if one skid lets go first? you get a face full of heli? will the rest of the drive train handle being tied down? what about the tail and boom?

You might be surprised to find out that this has been a practice since the whole "Model helicopter" began in the 1970's.
Unless you are so silly to lean with your head over the heli, you are hardly getting a face full of heli.
Yes the drive trains handle it just fine.
No the skids don't let go.
10-29-2009 11:19 AM
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whirlyspud
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Location: USA

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This one ranks just slightly above the guys that used to hold the tail boom and lift up in to a hover. I know a guy that has a $75,000 dollar hand from doing that. And his name is not Steve Austin. If an old set of wooden tail blades can do that to your hand, just think of what a new set of carbon main blades could do to you.

Mike
10-29-2009 02:22 PM
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helidad2
Senior Heliman
Location: potosi mo. usa

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Quote 
This one ranks just slightly above the guys that used to hold the tail boom and lift up in to a hover.
The original Kavan jet ranger build manual had a picture of this very thing in it and telling you this is how to check the blade tracking . And being as the Kavan J.R. was the best flying heli of the day most of us did it by the book . Not saying it is right and I would never do it again or allow anyone around me to do it, I have done that many times probably 30 years ago , but helis were new and we were all learning. and I still got all my fingers.

even a blind hog finds an acorn now and then
10-29-2009 05:53 PM
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whirlyspud
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Location: USA

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They had the same picture in Schluter's book also.

I only knew one person that was hurt doing it, but the one was enough for me.

Mike
10-29-2009 06:41 PM
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A. Bundy
Elite Veteran
Location: Aurora,IL. 30W/SW of Chicago

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Mike,they will call you safety police now.
10-29-2009 07:04 PM
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NZ_Nitro
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Location: New Zealand

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think outside the box my friend

Quote 
Unless you are so silly to lean with your head over the heli, you are hardly getting a face full of heli.

consider if a skid does let go, (two small self tappers vs horsepower) what angle will the heli be on before the second may let go? or if it doesnt it will be one expensive rebuild....... you dont need to have your head above it to get hurt
10-29-2009 08:09 PM
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whirlyspud
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Location: USA

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Al, I'm called much worse on a daily basis.

Mike
10-29-2009 08:59 PM
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GimbalFan
rrProfessor
Location: Copter County, Nv

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EDIT -- Reposted here.

op-thwõp-thwõp-thwõp-thwõp-thwõp-thwõp-thwõp-thwõp-thwõp-thwõp-thwõp-thwõp-t
10-29-2009 09:00 PM
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whirlyspud
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Location: USA

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Foo was ahead of his time.

Mike
10-29-2009 09:10 PM
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NZ_Nitro
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Location: New Zealand

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Oh thats funny

I remember "the Foo" is he still around or disabled?
10-29-2009 09:43 PM
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alfred
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Location: Australia, New South Wales, Mid North Coast

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Quote 
consider if a skid does let go, (two small self tappers vs horsepower) what angle will the heli be on before the second may let go? or if it doesnt it will be one expensive rebuild.......

What self tappers? This might be his design.
I was talking about in principle.

Quote 
you dont need to have your head above it to get hurt

You mentioned the "head" part, not me

Look...I am not saying that "his" design is save.
I am saying that using this method is "as" safe (if not safer) then any other method.
Done properly, the heli can NOT get away, compared to other methods.

If you fly these completed mechanical devices then as an average, we can assume a few things:
1) You are not a complete idiot (there are always exceptions), as they are not cheap and usually require at least a reasonable income. That in general means that you have to have a certain level of intelligence to reach this kind of budged.
2) You have enough brain to assemble them and understand their complicated mechanical and electronic devices.
3) If you have the above, then you have a certain ability to think logically and have a fair understanding of: "what most likely will work and what most likely won't"


I use one of those metal foldaway work benches that has a top timber platform.
It weights about 20kg, then I add a couple of sand bags at 20kg each. This makes the whole thing now 60kg.
I then cable tie the heli to it.
I have been doing this from the day of using GMP Cricket to today's 90 size Stratus...no problem at all.

It's great to set up the lower end of a new engine (idle, midrange). To get your tracking right and check for leaks/loose items that might have come loose...etc.
You never run it at full power as it is a completely useless exercise.
The engine will see unrealistic loads under full power when tied down as it now is trying to lift more weight then just it's own.
So your top-end tuning will be out again in the moment you take it off the bench and try it for real.

10-30-2009 01:05 AM
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Blade_Master1
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Location: Canada

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As a newbie I never tried a heli stand as I to thought it was unsafe.
I decided to learn the safe way
Have an experienced modeler look it over first
you can't tune an engine on a stand because the load won't be the same
you can check gyro direction in a preflight
you can check for leaks by pressurizing the fuel system
My tracking has always been bang on during set-up

If you think you need a heli stand chances are you need to learn more

F-27
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10-30-2009 01:40 AM
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jjvwg
Senior Heliman
Location: Vail/Boulder, CO

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the thing that gets me is, you should never have to worry that your gyro is working right. If you know how to set up a tail, its not a problem, and if you do think that it could be wrong you should probably have an experienced pilot check it for you.

Jeff
10-30-2009 02:34 AM
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NZ_Nitro
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Location: New Zealand

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The maker of this fine product

Phill Souter is definitly watching this as he has just emailed me, he seems a bit shy but give him a big shout out from everyone here!! his words to me were he is very happy everyone likes his product and all the support he is getting on here
10-30-2009 05:34 AM
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xcellgasman101
Elite Veteran
Location: WOODWARD, OKLA....

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Quote 
If you think you need a heli stand chances are you need to learn more


That is the best statement in this thread!! XGM/VGM

John Crotts
www.soonerhelicamproductions.com
10-30-2009 05:37 AM
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alfred
Veteran
Location: Australia, New South Wales, Mid North Coast

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Quote 
As a newbie I never tried a heli stand as I to thought it was unsafe.
I decided to learn the safe way
Have an experienced modeler look it over first
you can't tune an engine on a stand because the load won't be the same
you can check gyro direction in a preflight
you can check for leaks by pressurizing the fuel system
My tracking has always been bang on during set-up

If you think you need a heli stand chances are you need to learn more

We seem to have lots of so called Experts here (arm chair pilots).

Quote 
I decided to learn the safe way
"Safe" in who's books? Yours? What is the "safe" way???? LOL

Quote 
you can't tune an engine on a stand because the load won't be the same
This tells me that you are just guessing and running with the "crowd".
You can run in an engine under better "controlled" conditions and you certainly can tune the engine from idle to midrange. But you might have to re-tune/fine-tune the midrange again , once you have tuned in the top end during flying.

Quote 
you can check gyro direction in a preflight
Yes, and you can also make double sure that your direction is correct by giving s small amount of left or right as the tail will move a little bit.
It's obvious that you are just "guessing".

Quote 
you can check for leaks by pressurizing the fuel system
And you can't do that as a double check on a tied down base???

Quote 
My tracking has always been bang on during set-up
The final proof that you talk out of your rear.
It shows that you have very limited experience. Spatially the bigger birds running 690 ~ 710mm blades are prone to require fine tuning the tracking, no matter how careful your bench adjustment was. Very few helies have absolutely "zero" play throughout the control system and even that varies from model to model of the same Manufacturer.
Although the flybarless onces comes closest to the perfect condition, due to their more direct linkage system. (I am just setting up my first one now).
Now add any differences between two blades and yes..you still get them despite CF technology and top level manufacturing, and your "perfect" tracking from first spool up is pure luck.

Quote 
If you think you need a heli stand chances are you need to learn more
Another one of those wildly thrown out statements.
Nobody "needs" anything.
You don't "need" a pitch gauge..but it does make life easier.
You don't "need" a governor, Tacho, Temperature Gun and/or sensor, 2.4G radio.........

Anyway..it was fun
Just too many "so called Experts" here with "zero" real life experience on the subject, to make this a worthwhile discussion.
10-30-2009 09:52 AM
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4 pages [ <<    <     1     ( 2 )     3      4     NEXT    >> ]1846 viewsTOPIC CLOSED
Thunder Power RC . Mikado Modellhubschrauber . Futaba-RC

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Off Topics > Just had an email asking for an apology from Imafanz
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