RunRyder RC Helicopter Topic - RAPTOR 50 Main Gear being eaten

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Thunder Tiger Raptors 30-90 - Imperio > RAPTOR 50 Main Gear being eaten

aaronredbaron
Senior Heliman
Location: West Linn, OR, USA

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I'm not a happy camper... three more flights to break the engine in, and the gear is now noticeably worn to where there is a taper. The top of the gear is worn much more than the bottom. My mesh is good, the pinion spins free, and there are no high spots, it seems to be wearing evenly. At this rate I don't feel the heli is even safe to fly without fear of stripping the gear if I really get on it.... this is all still just hovering and punch outs... What is going on??? I have another Raptor in a pile and although its gear is smashed, it doesn't have anywhere near the amount of wear this one does, and I had hundreds of flights on it

and yes, this is an 85 tooth main and 10 tooth pinion on a new Titan SE... all out of the box parts

wow, 2008 was a crappy year! Oh well, I'm goin flying :)

11-04-2009 08:11 PM

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Damper
Senior Heliman
Location: Point Blank TX USA

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Checked the belt tension?

Full Throttle Spooning Leads To Forking

11-04-2009 10:15 PM

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Airwolf2009
New Heliman
Location: Hampshire, UK

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aaronredbaron

whilst I have only had the time to put 2 tanks through my new set-up with the new frames the wear seems to have stopped - or at least vastly reduced. Can you tell me if your side frames have a serial number on the headtank side? My original ones did and they had the problem, the new ones from TT have no such marking and seem to be better.

I will try and get a few more tanks through the heli this week to see if changing the frames has fixed this problem.

Good luck with your investigation.

Scott

11-04-2009 11:24 PM

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debrooker
New Heliman
Location: Bramley UK

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FYI

my frames have a printed serial number.

Raptor 50 Titan SE - CSM720, DS610s and DS620
AlignSky 450 SE v2 - GY401B, MKS480, MG90s
HBFP

11-05-2009 06:58 AM

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GREYEAGLE
Key Veteran
Location: Sioux City IA

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What motor ?

Are you running any type of motor that has a different crank center line or shim.s under the mount or a warped mount that could shift the crank centerline ?

Problem is definitely a gear mesh or mechanical alignment issue ??

greyeagle

11-06-2009 03:52 AM

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Airwolf2009
New Heliman
Location: Hampshire, UK

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The set-up is a Red Line 53 - TT engine mount - and no washer between engine and fan (although in the instruction manual it clearly shows a washer in place).

11-06-2009 08:14 AM

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Airwolf2009
New Heliman
Location: Hampshire, UK

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Happening again

Over the past week I have cleaned off each tooth on the main gear and pinion, then checked over all the mechanics one last time.

This lunchtime I went over our flying field and put 2 tankfuls through the helicopter, all I was doing was hovering.

When I finished I checked the main gear and could clearly see that the wear is happening again in exactly the same way - see attached image.

I have been given new frames, new main gear, new tailrotor gear, new tailrotor belt so I can rule them out from this. The only thing Amerang didn't replace was the metal pinion but surely that can't be at fault here and I must assume that Amerang checked the pinion when they had my mechanics.

I am really now stuck what to do next, as many have said Raptors are pretty simple mehanically speaking and there's really not much one can do to influence the main gear / pinion mesh.

Really wish I'd gone for the TREX600 / OS combo now.

11-06-2009 02:35 PM

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Thumpernator
Senior Heliman
Location: Senoia, Georgia, USA

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What the hell,,,, go ahead and try a new pinion gear.

Dave
Crashing is not authorized.

11-06-2009 03:10 PM

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SC Raptorman
Veteran
Location: South Carolina

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I had one eating ring gears and put a new pinion on it and its still flying after 100`s flight later. I would put them on in a set .

Oh what a feeling flying 3D can be

11-06-2009 03:35 PM

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S Bell
Senior Heliman
Location: Nova Scotia Canada

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Quote
The only thing Amerang didn't replace was the metal pinion but surely that can't be at fault here

Quote
A poorly cut pinion can do this. Not saying that is the problem but I did have a similar occcurance with a V-II when they first came out many years ago.

Why not-since you've ruled out all else what remains is usually the cause. I've seen bad pinions wear the gear and make fluff.

Raptors are everywhere

11-06-2009 07:28 PM

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Raptor Pilot
Senior Heliman
Location: Northern Ireland

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Airwolf2009, looking at your last pic the pinion witness mark is not paralell with the main gear tooth which leads me again to suspect there is a bearing that has collapsed on the start shaft/clutch bell kind of aera. When the engine puts power on the pinion seems to be moveing sideways somehow and chewing up the main gear. If your sure that no bearings have collapsed then put in a new pinion like what has been suggested and give it a go. Also when your putting the engine back in it should slide straight up into the clutch bell without having to move the bell foward. I dont know if the TT 53 has a differnt measurement from the mounting flanges to the crank centerline compared to an O.S but since it is a TT engine you would think at least it will be a slide in fit in a TT raptor heli. Honestley, raptors are almost bomb proof but you seem to have got a bad one somehow. Its not easy to say whats wrong with it when i cant see it infront of me but i do try to help out fellow flyers.

If it doesnt move and its meant too... use WD 40. If it moves and its not meant too...use duct tape!

11-07-2009 12:22 AM

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GREYEAGLE
Key Veteran
Location: Sioux City IA

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Have an Idea

Aaron : Do you have access to a digital vernier caliper ?

If the bearings are good and the pinion is ok ::: then the only thing that can exhibit such a angular wear pattern " taper " as shown in your excellent Macro Photo, --- The motor mount has some how received a " taper " in the surface mounting plane. Machining error.

This is the flat beam flanges of the mount that the motor flanges tighten onto. With a caliper it is easy to check the thickness from top to bottom. From the wear pattern it will be thicker on top.

From the wear pattern it appears the lower portion of the mount is thinner and not holding the motor in a parallel plane. "Tilt's the top of pinion out"

Another solution is to shim out the bottom two holes of the flange to get it parallel. A sheet of paper equals around .oo3 - I'd try two thicknesses 1st, then paint it with type writer whiteout and spin it to read the wear pattern.

I bet when they placed the mount in the jig to surface machine it slipped and the mount has a machined taper.

greyeagle

11-07-2009 01:04 AM

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S Bell
Senior Heliman
Location: Nova Scotia Canada

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If the engine mount has a taper then the start shaft will rotate with notable roughness, something you can easily verify as it will put a bending moment on the stack-up.

Stephen

Raptors are everywhere

11-07-2009 01:27 AM

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debrooker
New Heliman
Location: Bramley UK

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Just a bit of an update, I took the clutch assembly out again as i developed a bit of tail wag. It appears that my bearing was loose on the pinion (a bit of play was present) and was running quite rough.

I bought replacement bearing, pinion block and pinion and noticed that the pinion and bearing are a very tight fit, which wasn't the case in the set that came with the kit.

I have installed the new clutch assembly and its running nice and smooth so hopefully will have some thing positive to report back at the weekend.

Raptor 50 Titan SE - CSM720, DS610s and DS620
AlignSky 450 SE v2 - GY401B, MKS480, MG90s
HBFP

11-11-2009 09:58 AM

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aaronredbaron
Senior Heliman
Location: West Linn, OR, USA

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I am going to try the pinion assembly off my old crashed raptor, at least i know it worked. If that solves it I will go ahead and buy new parts. I also had a nasty tail kick... I pulled the engine out and spun the rotor head backwards so it turned the main gear and pinion, and it seems like it makes a funny gear noise and doesn't run smooth. I am almost sure mine is a defective pinion... will report back what happens with the old pinion clutch stack installed

wow, 2008 was a crappy year! Oh well, I'm goin flying :)

11-11-2009 05:01 PM

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iflybell
Heliman
Location: Coon Rapids, MN 55433

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Main gear/Main Shaft trouble?

This is a little off of the subject but was wondering. Have any of you ever experienced main shaft wear at the bearings? Sadly I "planted" my Raptor last Monday and while I was going thru the good and bad parts, I noticed my main shaft had wear spots wear the bearings were. Not bad but the bluing has worn off the shaft. I tried the new bearings on the new shaft and noticed I can freely turn the shaft in side of the bearings. This was a common problem on my Concept 30's years ago and I remember reading a post about using locktite on the main shaft bearings to hold them in place. Have any of you heard of this? Airwolf2009 is this what you did with the green Locktite?

As fare as the Pinion and Main gear are concerned I have been lucky. A buddy of mine is experiencing the same thing. I will ask him how severe it has been and see if he has any ideas.

Thank you for the help.

11-22-2009 11:26 PM

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Raptor Pilot
Senior Heliman
Location: Northern Ireland

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only on my first raptor 30 V1 did i notice any wear on the main shaft where the bearings ran on it but it had done a massive amount of flying up to then. Never happened on any other raptor i have ever owned.
debrooker and Airwolf2009, Did you get them helis sorted out yet?

If it doesnt move and its meant too... use WD 40. If it moves and its not meant too...use duct tape!

11-22-2009 11:57 PM

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debrooker
New Heliman
Location: Bramley UK

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Unfortunately the weather in the UK has been terrible of late so I haven't been flying.

Airwolf certainly has and he may be able to report back - i know he has been focusing on another issue at the mo.

Raptor 50 Titan SE - CSM720, DS610s and DS620
AlignSky 450 SE v2 - GY401B, MKS480, MG90s
HBFP

11-23-2009 06:37 AM

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Airwolf2009
New Heliman
Location: Hampshire, UK

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Update & Green Loctite

Well I've put about 8 tanks of fuel through the new assembly, there is a little bit of wear but nothing like as bad as it was before. I phoned the technician at Amerang UK and he explained that a little wear at the start was normal. I am therefore assuming that replacing the frames has fixed the issue that I had - time will tell if this drivetrain is as robust as my Raptor 30's. I am now having problems tuning the TT Redline 53 engine - that's a whole new story...

iflybell - green loctite, also know as "bearing retainer" is used to make sure that the centre hub of a bearing does not rotate on the shaft it is supporting and thus prevents the wear I think you are describing. To answer your question specifically I haven't used it on the mast bearings, only the pinion bearing, however it sounds like it maybe useful on the mast too. Just bear in mind that the bearings are hard to remove afterwards once seated.

Thanks again to everyone for all your good advice.

11-23-2009 08:12 AM

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Thunder Tiger Raptors 30-90 - Imperio > RAPTOR 50 Main Gear being eaten

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