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Beginners Corner > Do you think the average flyer would know much of a differnce between 435mm main and 500mm Mains????
 
 
Bobglennspy4u
Senior Heliman
Location: New Port Richey Fl usa

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		Reason I'm asing I am considering selling a KICK A2# Trex500 mainly on disk size.
10-25-2009 06:46 PM
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Gyronut
Elite Veteran
Location: Martinsville In.

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		Don't you think the longer main blades might just whack the tail blades..??

Rick
10-25-2009 07:47 PM
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Bobglennspy4u
Senior Heliman
Location: New Port Richey Fl usa

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		The question I asking

ids not about the fit, about the difference in flying a 435 set of a 500 set. is there that muc of a difference?
10-25-2009 08:43 PM
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Gyronut
Elite Veteran
Location: Martinsville In.

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		Well in that case, yes........

Rick
10-26-2009 12:59 AM
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the Wasp
rrProfessor
Location: Vt

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		"yes" here too, think about it, there are 2 blades, so your Disk will be 130cm larger with 500s

Jim
Buzz Buzz Buzz
10-26-2009 01:30 AM
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itsjojo
Veteran
Location: North East Pennnsylvania

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		That difference would be very noticeable. They would be more floaty for sure.

Trex 500esp 600N Pro & 700 Nitro Dx7
10-26-2009 08:32 AM
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VooDooX
Key Veteran
Location: San Francisco Bay Area CA, US (San Mateo)

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		you would need to extend the boom get a better motor and better battery's but yes there's a difference i notice it from my 560's vrs 600mm blades and that's only 80mm combined added disk size but the thing is the bigger the dis the more area the last part of the blades actually cover while flying

99.9999999999999% of an atom is empty space
10-26-2009 10:49 PM
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Aaron29
Key Veteran
Location: Bossier City, LA

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		Yup you will have more stability on the bigger blades. It will wander less in hover and follow your stick movements more truly.

The 435 by comparison will be dodgy.

The difference between my 600's and 680's on 2 different helis is ENORMOUS. And that's a 113% increase in blade length.

Your increase is 115%.

Weight has some to do with this, as well.

-Aaron
10-28-2009 02:02 PM
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T-Rex-Flyer
Key Veteran
Location: Panama City, Fl

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		I'm guessing you fly better then you do math.

If the wings are traveling faster than the fuselage, it's probably a helicopter.
10-28-2009 02:53 PM
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Aaron29
Key Veteran
Location: Bossier City, LA

My Posts This: Topic  Forum
Quote 
I'm guessing you fly better then you do math.

Since you had to do a snide remark, in usual RR fashion, instead of politely correcting my post, I'll let you know, in glorious detail, how I ignorantly buffooned the math and completely detracted from this thread...

680 divided by 600 is 1.1333 with the 3 repeating infinitely. Could also be expressed by someone as simple as me as "113 percent increase" when I meant "113% the size."

500 divided by 435 is 1.149425 and some more digits which are unimportant. I went ahead and rounded it, if it's ok with you, to 1.15. Could also be expressed by someone as simple as me as "115 percent increase" when I meant "115% the size."

For what it's worth, I did no math. The calculator application on windows did.

I bet you point out this kind of stuff people all the time and make lots of friends doing so.

My ultimate point is the same; the increase in size from 435 to 500 will be as dramatic or more as the increase from a 50 size model to a 90.

I thought being out of school meant the end of math critiques.



-Aaron
10-29-2009 04:04 PM
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Bundian
Senior Heliman
Location: Miami, FL USA

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		So after using super computers for precise calculations, bashing each others math capabilities, I think we can all agree that longer blades will be more floaty, smaller blades will be faster response and a bit jittery right?

Fly it like you stole it!!!
10-29-2009 04:39 PM
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Aaron29
Key Veteran
Location: Bossier City, LA

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		I'm not sure you can say either will be faster response. But yes on the rest.

-Aaron
10-29-2009 04:43 PM
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Bundian
Senior Heliman
Location: Miami, FL USA

My Posts This: Topic  Forum
Quote 
I'm not sure you can say either will be faster response. But yes on the rest.

-Aaron

I was thinking roll rates and stuff..like I'm using 690 blades on my 700 and I can roll it faster than my buddy who's using 710's

Fly it like you stole it!!!
10-29-2009 05:23 PM
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VooDooX
Key Veteran
Location: San Francisco Bay Area CA, US (San Mateo)

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		you can make longer blades roll just as fast its just a matter of setup infact i would think you could make it roll faster as you have more force applied further out correct me if im wrong tho

99.9999999999999% of an atom is empty space
10-29-2009 06:20 PM
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Zaaaguy72
Key Veteran
Location: Grand Rapids, MN

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		You are right, the longer blades can be made to roll just as fast, if not faster. depending on the setup.

Dude, look at your tail!!!!
10-29-2009 07:34 PM
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Aaron29
Key Veteran
Location: Bossier City, LA

My Posts This: Topic  Forum
Quote 
I was thinking roll rates and stuff..like I'm using 690 blades on my 700 and I can roll it faster than my buddy who's using 710's

There's more to this than blade length. What's his flybar ratio? His blade weight? Are they root weighted 3D blades or tip weighted FAI blades? Are they chord stable or unstable? Are you both running the same flybar and paddles and servo throws?

I can setup two helis with the same blades and one will be fast one not.

-Aaron
10-31-2009 06:23 AM
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Aaron29
Key Veteran
Location: Bossier City, LA

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		Another thing usually missed in discussions like this...

Stability and responsiveness are not opposite ends on the same scale. You can have a heli that has BOTH or NEITHER.

Stability can be thought of as how rock solid the heli is when the sticks are neutral. In aero the term dynamic stability can enter but I'll save that if people have questions. How well the heli responds to wind or how often it wanders off on it's own can be thought of as stability.

Responsiveness is simply how fast the heli moves when YOU command it.

You can have a very stable heli that is either touchy or slow to respond.

You can also have a very UNstable heli that is either touchy or slow to respond. Obviously an unstable heli that also happens to be slow to respond could end up as a crash.

Stability and responsiveness are somewhat tied together. You have a certain amount of both, and often sacrifice one to gain more of the other. But you CAN have a setup that lacks both stability and responsiveness. Or you CAN have a setup that has both.

FAI guys are the pros at this. They've tried multiple setups by the time they arrive at their contest setup. They look for good stability and good responsiveness. Both are needed.

3D guys SHOULD be looking for some stability but many end up looking for only flip rate. They start messing with delta and the flybar and paddles to find it...and they do...but at great cost to stability. Then you end up with a heli that flips fast but wanders around without you telling it to, and follows your commands poorly due to having motions that aren't commanded.

There is so much more to a good flying heli than fast roll rate.

-Aaron
10-31-2009 06:25 AM
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Aaron29
Key Veteran
Location: Bossier City, LA

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		But so I don't seem to be contradicting my earlier posts, larger blades are more stable than smaller blades, given the same setup.

I'd venture to say a 50 set up with lots of stability would be more stable than a 90 setup without.

But, they'd both have to be at the extremes. When setup similarly, the 90 will be more stable.

That's why you don't see a lot of 450's beating out 90's in FAI.

-Aaron
10-31-2009 06:42 AM
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Beginners Corner > Do you think the average flyer would know much of a differnce between 435mm main and 500mm Mains????
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