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Got Jet Fuel? Turbine Helicopters > Turbine bogging question
 
 
krashtagain
Key Veteran
Location: ohio

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		I've had the opportunity to get up close to a Vario turbine heli this weekend . I have alot of interest in turbines and after looking at the mechanics (belt drive off the turbine shaft to the clutch bell) I started to wonder will a turbine bog like a nitro motor ?

If you're not living on the edge you're just taking up space !
10-19-2009 04:45 AM
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Jack Martin
Senior Heliman
Location: AKA HeliJack, Washougal, WA

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		No

Well I suppose it would if you loaded it enough, but my Jaka in a 30+ pound heli will pull out of a settling with power situation, unlike any nitro heli I ever flew. Always had all the power I could use.

Remember our Veterans.
10-19-2009 12:26 PM
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Billj
Senior Heliman
Location: Max Meadows, Virginia

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		Won't bog... but that belt sure could slip or break on a 2 stage ...

Problem on a turbine is overheating... You'd have to wring one pretty hard to start that.. A Jakadofsky has systems in place to prevent damage to the engine under " extreme" Loads..

You should ask DR Tim how much weight he's carried with his odessey without issue..
10-19-2009 12:36 PM
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Peter Wales
Key Veteran
Location: Orlando Fl

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		What will happen if you keep increasing the load on a direct drive turbine, is that it will slow down, or bog. The ECU will detect that the turbine has slowed down and will increase the fuel flow. If this does not increase the speed of the turbine, it will keep increasing the fuel flow.

If the turbine speed still does not increase , there will not be enough air going through the turbine to burn all this extra fuel in the right place and this will cause it to overheat. The ECU, will then start cutting back on the fuel flow, gradually shutting down the turbine unless you get the load off and allow it to accelerate again.

If the load remains on and the temperature rises too high, the turbine ECU will stop the turbine to prevent damage to it.

Peter Wales
http://scalehelicopters.org
10-19-2009 02:42 PM
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krashtagain
Key Veteran
Location: ohio

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		So .... from what you guys have said you're relatively safe with a turbine in a heli without a bogging issue as long as no "foolishness" is involved .

How reliable are the belt drive systems on a tubine heli ? Seems to me like it wouldn't take much to chew a belt .

If you're not living on the edge you're just taking up space !
10-19-2009 03:13 PM
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Peter Wales
Key Veteran
Location: Orlando Fl

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		As long as there us no "foolishness" involved, they are fine. The 6mm belts on my very old PHT3 are great flying smooth scale on an 800mm 4 blade head at 1250 rpm.

The trend now is is to larger helis with bigger disks and reports of belts failing are becoming more frequent. Mind you, we dont get any reports of belts not failing so I dont know what the proportion of failures is.

I think the present 2.3m 2 blade disk is pretty much on the limit for belt driven turbines

Peter Wales
http://scalehelicopters.org
10-19-2009 03:28 PM
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krashtagain
Key Veteran
Location: ohio

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		What is the next step above belt drive , gear drive ?

If you're not living on the edge you're just taking up space !
10-19-2009 03:36 PM
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WIRLYBIRD
Senior Heliman
Location: CAPE TOWN / SOUTH AFRICA.

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		Yes.
Dave.

WHAT GOES UP MUST SURELY COME DOWN.
10-20-2009 07:08 AM
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Rappy 60
Veteran
Location: Houston, Tx

My Posts This: Topic  Forum
Quote 
What is the next step above belt drive , gear drive ?

2nd stage gear drive.

Dale

Load "*",8,1
10-20-2009 07:19 PM
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munkey nuts
Senior Heliman
Location: wales uk

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		krashtagain

i have a jetcat and the governor that is built into the ecu controls the headspeed well.

but i believe that a wren turbine and others maybe, i dont know. have no governor so you have to set the pitch curve to match the throttle curve. so i suppose you could cause a flame out if you have the throttle curve set wrong.
10-20-2009 08:33 PM
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krashtagain
Key Veteran
Location: ohio

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		It's to bad no one close to me has a turbine I could learn from . It appears the learning curve could be costly .

If you're not living on the edge you're just taking up space !
10-21-2009 01:12 AM
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Havoc
Key Veteran
Location: Ky.

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		Where in ohio are you? You get a temp reading so you can see how hard you are working it and just take it slow as you get a feel for it. You probably do not want to use it as a 3D trainer.
10-21-2009 01:51 AM
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Billj
Senior Heliman
Location: Max Meadows, Virginia

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		Not really a BIG learning curve in comparison to gas or glow...Except maybe the starting and getting used to the sound... The ECU handles all the chores... Set the pitch curve and fly it... You'll know if you works for you or not...in regards to "feel".
10-21-2009 01:54 AM
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krashtagain
Key Veteran
Location: ohio

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		Havoc im about 2 hrs away from Columbus . I don't have a turbine yet but i'm taking a long hard look at one .

If you're not living on the edge you're just taking up space !
10-21-2009 01:58 AM
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craigd
Heliman
Location: Sydney Australia

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		I run my pitch curve linear and set the throttle curve with an optical tach to get the target head speed, like you would any other heli, gas or glow.

BRG, Craig.
10-21-2009 04:55 AM
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seattle_helo
Key Veteran
Location: Seattle, WA USA

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		krashtagain. the curve is not bad at all, actually. In fact, when I see other guys at the field having all kinds of small issues with their nitro and gas engines I think the turbine is much easier to maintain. Only electric has a slight edge in terms of ease of use.

The engines do have quite a few sub-systems, with the pump, valves, ECU and such. But once you get familiar with it it's all so simple and logical. These things are a barrel of fun and I'm so thankful we have something so cool to play around with.
10-24-2009 08:07 PM
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WIRLYBIRD
Senior Heliman
Location: CAPE TOWN / SOUTH AFRICA.

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		Krashtagain , turbines like any other machine , needs to be flown within it's design limits , IE , you wouldn't take a standard car to a formular one race , so you wouldn't attempt to do 3D with a 30 pound turbine model. You should never be able to bog down a turbine , that's correctly set up , and flown the way it's designed to be flown , my NH90 is a scale model weighing 30 pounds , is three years old , and flown only in a very smooth scale way (I don't think quite as smooth as Peter Wales ,but close). The belts still appear brand new , as do the gears...........................
Best regards,
Dave.

WHAT GOES UP MUST SURELY COME DOWN.
10-26-2009 11:41 AM
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i-like-it
Senior Heliman
Location: pennsylvania

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		QUOTE: so you wouldn't attempt to do 3D with a 30 pound turbine model.
____________________________________________________


Ari
team HobbyHut.com
i got 99 problems but a B**** ain't one. lol
10-26-2009 12:10 PM
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mcfast
Key Veteran
Location: Canada

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		That is not a 30 pound turbine!

P.S. sorry for the spelling or the grammar I am dyslexic!
10-26-2009 12:54 PM
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WIRLYBIRD
Senior Heliman
Location: CAPE TOWN / SOUTH AFRICA.

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		I don't-like-it , thanks mcfast , a lot of people like to stir hot air on here.

i-like-it , you do know what I mean!!!???
Your answer doesn't help the young man asking the questions.
Dave.

WHAT GOES UP MUST SURELY COME DOWN.
10-26-2009 03:37 PM
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Got Jet Fuel? Turbine Helicopters > Turbine bogging question
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