RunRyder RC Helicopter Topic - Heli flew away...

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Stolen? Missing Helis or Equip > Heli flew away...

Band1086
Senior Heliman
Location: Kennewick, Wa. USA

My Posts This: Topic Forum

Back when I was flying FM receiver's, I had a Raptor 30 with 401 gyro, airtronics servos, OS 32, Fut receiver. etc, ect... I was flying in my back yard (I live in a rural area). I had my raptor idleing and I ran in the house to grab something, when I heard the heli rev up. I ran back out in time to see it clear the house top.
It was full throttle, full collective, neutral cyclics, and the tail rotor yawed all the way over

. I don't to this day know what happened but it locked in that position climbing and drifting to the south-south west.
I ran after it as far as I could, until fences completely blocked me,
then I ran back and got my vehicle and went in that direction but to no avail. I never did find it....anybody ever have a similar thing happen

10-18-2009 10:31 AM

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i-like-it
Senior Heliman
Location: pennsylvania

My Posts This: Topic Forum

failsafe should have been set to idle and neg pitch. i make it a habit to check every bird by switching my radio off. and seeing for myself. sorry you lost your bird, i dont think your the only one.

Ari
team HobbyHut.com
Fly Scared, You Crash Scared

10-18-2009 10:35 AM

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Mutt
Key Veteran
Location: M ca usa

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Quote
Back when I was flying FM receiver's

running a fm rx has nothing to do with this.

Quote
anybody ever have a similar thing happen

NO First I wouldnt leave a running heli or plane and go inside a house. Sorry I do not feel a bit bad for you. You did a foolish thing and I hope it didnt come down and hurt anyone or damage someone's property. Pure iresponsible act on your end.

10-18-2009 10:59 AM

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Band1086
Senior Heliman
Location: Kennewick, Wa. USA

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Well, I was only a few feet away in the house and only for a few seconds. Standing outside would have made no difference. It simply
locked out (I don't know why) and took off. I had no control at all!
I never used an FM receiver on a heli again...went to PCM strictly
after that.

10-18-2009 11:09 AM

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krashtagain
Key Veteran
Location: ohio

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failsafe is our best friend

If you're not living on the edge you're just taking up space !

10-18-2009 12:37 PM

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jb_turner
Elite Veteran
Location: USA

My Posts This: Topic Forum

1. A running heli should never be left unattended.

2. I suggest failsafe at idle throttle (or off) and neutral pitch.

3. PCM is FM.

JB "Do a SEARCH" Turner

10-18-2009 12:49 PM

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Band1086
Senior Heliman
Location: Kennewick, Wa. USA

My Posts This: Topic Forum

[quote]
1. A running heli should never be left unattended.
2. I suggest failsafe at idle throttle (or off) and neutral pitch.
3. PCM is FM.

#1 is a given, I learned my lesson that day. However, I'm not sure
what I would have done had I been standing there looking at it when it locked out. Probably moved away quickly rather than being mowed down

!

#2 Failsafe is a definate PLUS.

#3 Pulse Code Modulation FM is supposed to be less subject to glitching and lockouts than straight FM...that's why I went to it.
It was the best we had at the time.

By the way, if the lockover was caused by an on board battery loosing power for some reason, would failsafe still have worked? I know if you loose signal it works, because you still have power to the receiver. But what if you have an instant power loss?

10-18-2009 04:15 PM

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GyroFreak
Elite Veteran
Location: Florida ... 28° 52' N 81° 16' W

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I had a friend who also lost his heli to a flyaway, I think he just had a bad crash and totaled it and didn't want to admit it.
None of my heli's can fly by themselves (except the helicommand one) so it's hard for me to believe that a heli is so well trimed it can fly by itself, especially the earlier ones (my friends was in the 80's).
Please correct me if I'm wrong here guys (not refering to the coaxial types).
EDIT: After thinking this over, perhaps if the heli goes into a pirouette so small cyclic errors are distributed around in a circle it could stay aloft ?

Bacteria They're the only culture some have
Growing old is required; growing up is opti

10-18-2009 04:27 PM

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Band1086
Senior Heliman
Location: Kennewick, Wa. USA

My Posts This: Topic Forum

If the tail wouldn't have been locked hard over it probably would have tipped over. But it was in a full pirouette which kept it from doing that. And the cyclics had to have been near neutral, otherwise it would have been oscillating , which it wasn't. But as it was pirouetting it was drifting that's why I lost it. If it would have gone straight up, more or less, I probably would have found it. By the way, there was an apple tree very close, some large roses over hanging, and an over hanging deck roof that it had to somehow clear. I honestly don't know how the whole thing happened, it was VERY STRANGE! But since I never recovered it I never found out why it locked out. The whole thing is a total mystery.

10-18-2009 04:45 PM

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ErichF
Elite Veteran
Location: Odessa, FL 33556 (Tampa Area)

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Guys, no one has caught this? PPM has NO FAILSAFE...so how in the heck do the controls go to a specific, steady-state position? Every PPM system I have seen that had partial or total loss of signal made the servos do all kinds of strange motions. Now, sometimes in cases of total signal loss, I have seen the servos move a bit one way, then stop completely. Interesting that this bird throttled up and pulled pitch just right and held the cyclic straight.

Very odd, indeed.

Erich

10-18-2009 04:52 PM

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greenboot
Veteran
Location: St Louis, Mo

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Quote
3. PCM is FM

I think that would make a good epitaph for somebodies tombstone.

The rest of us know the difference and have moved on with our lives.

Tom

10-18-2009 06:35 PM

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Band1086
Senior Heliman
Location: Kennewick, Wa. USA

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Nobody is willing to tell their story like this??

10-21-2009 07:46 AM

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pseudonym
Senior Heliman
Location: Edmonton, Alberta

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You know.. I was going to explain the difference between sets, how digital signals work and why something like this would happen due to interference (BTW, if it was interference, no failsafe would work), but I realized it would just take waaaay to long. But in short, PCM is actually NOT less prone to interference.. in fact, because of the short period of the wave, it is much much MORE prone. However, it has error correction and is digital. I still don't agree with radio operation on the 2.4GHz spectrum, I can't see how that is an improvement over the crowding conditions that was on the 75MHZ spectrum!

RC models and UAVs should honestly ask for one of the old TV spectrums that are opening up. There are enough of us that we shouldn't be on the "Public" frequencies.

Oh, and if you go to the FS menu on a FUTABA controller, there are the fail safe options.

unspelling the world one misprint at a time.

10-21-2009 08:18 AM

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Rafael23cc
Key Veteran
Location: Junction City, KS

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Here is my experience. I still have not found the helicopter, so I can't tell what was the cause. My guess would be unplugged batteries. No failsafe in the world can help you there.

http://runryder.com/helicopter/t142562p1/

For those of you suggesting to set-up failsafe, go read the OP again. He was using FM (NON PCM) receivers. And please, we all know that PCM is transmitted over the FM band. But there is a difference.

Quote
(BTW, if it was interference, no failsafe would work),

Please explain this. I was once at an uncontrolled field where thanks to PCM 2 helis were saved because the pilots inadvertently had their radios on the same frequency. Failsafe was set to hold and low throttle. One heli was not able to take off, and the other just floated to the ground from a hover. You can't get worse interference than this.

Rafael

Keep your feet on the ground, but your eyes on the sky.

10-21-2009 02:17 PM

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Band1086
Senior Heliman
Location: Kennewick, Wa. USA

My Posts This: Topic Forum

Wow, I'm learning. Thanks for the replies guys, Keep them comming

10-21-2009 04:44 PM

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GyroFreak
Elite Veteran
Location: Florida ... 28° 52' N 81° 16' W

My Posts This: Topic Forum

Quote
My guess would be unplugged batteries. No failsafe in the world can help you there.

Yes it can. light return spring on the throttle like I did on my gasser to prevent chicken dance.
Note tension is adjusted by the black tie wrap on the right (hard to see).

Bacteria They're the only culture some have
Growing old is required; growing up is opti

10-21-2009 05:19 PM

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pkfrizzlefry
Senior Heliman
Location: Newington, CT (Central Connecticut)

My Posts This: Topic Forum

Interesting use of a spring

Wow a great idea, a little $1 spring could end up saving you hundreds...

Ill add this, back in 98-99 i had one of the first rappys and was on PCM... I was just starting out in the hobby, checked my controls they all worked...then spent a good hour trying to start the engine (maybe half hour) well turns out the rx had a short and it quickly drained the cheap battery, so once i did get it started i had no control whatsoever...

I had the heli spinning almost at take off speed without the ability to do anything about it..I swear i thought it was just going to take right off! I don't think back then i really appreciated the danger that scenario posed...i used a 2x4 on the skids AND ACTUALLY CRAWLED UNDER IT TO DISCONNECT THE FUEL TUBE...

Only NOW do i FULLY understand on how many different things could have gone wrong....GLAD it didn't

it would have been a messy cleanup..

After that i replaced the RX and never had battery issues, till i used Digital servos with all kinds of cool electronics on NiCad's..but that's a different story...

Fly, Fly then Fly some more!!

10-21-2009 05:38 PM

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pseudonym
Senior Heliman
Location: Edmonton, Alberta

My Posts This: Topic Forum

I was talking about an analog spike in the frequency. Interfearance can look like signal and as the reciver would be reciving a signal, the failsafe would not kick in. With digital you are talking about noise and signal loss, with analog you look at interfearance.

unspelling the world one misprint at a time.

10-21-2009 06:57 PM

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helidevil
Key Veteran
Location: ME

My Posts This: Topic Forum

at the NEHC's heli phenomenon, Benny Chi's aleous 50 slammed into the ground full neg. colective! look at the divot in my gallery!

Its not a crash, its an upgrade opportunity! and RCHover team pilot

11-01-2009 04:01 AM

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Band1086
Senior Heliman
Location: Kennewick, Wa. USA

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What caused it? And was he running 2.4?

11-01-2009 09:46 AM

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Stolen? Missing Helis or Equip > Heli flew away...

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