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e-Align T-REX 250-450-500-600 > T-REX 600 Scorpion 4025-1100 getting hot
 
 
ikotikot
Heliman
Location: United Arab Emirates

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		I recently replaced the align stock motor with the Scorpion 4025-1100 and the stock align 100a esc with hobbywing 100a pentium due to overheating of both the motor and esc.

with the current setup, the 5ah 25c lipo and hobbywing gets barely warm after a 5min mild 3D flight while the scorpion gets hot but i wasn't able to measure the temp exactly but i can still touch the motor for about 5sec only right after the flight.

is this normal to the scorpion? i'm using 15t pinion and 90% flat tc.

fly it like a sim, order like it's free
10-18-2009 03:58 AM
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Blade_Master1
Elite Veteran
Location: Canada

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		your KV is wrong for that heli it should have been 1700kv
the 15T you're running is putting a strain on the motor


try a 1700kv motor and a 12T pinion assuming you are running a 6S system

F-27
MSR
Terminator Raven
NX Pro
Raven50
K50
HawkPro(~rip)
Swift 550
10-18-2009 04:17 AM
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Spitfire1
Key Veteran
Location: Perth Australia

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		If he`s talking about 600, the 4025 1100 is good.

I have the 4025 1100 kv and its amazing how cool it stays, I think somethings wrong, belt too tight? or something dragging maybe?

The Scorpion motors are well known for running extremely cool so somethings wrong, I can fly my one back to back hard flights and it dont even get luke warm.

Personally I havent felt any performance increase with my Scorpion, but it stays very cool.
10-18-2009 04:45 AM
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ikotikot
Heliman
Location: United Arab Emirates

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		setup

well here's the setup:

T600 ESP (torque tube)
6S1P 5000mah 25C lipo
scorpion 4025-1100kv
hobbywing pentium 100a ESC super soft startup
15T pinion (also tried 14 and 16-motor also gets hot)
throttle curve 90% in stunt mode

the pinion to main gear has no slop but not tight.

fly it like a sim, order like it's free
10-18-2009 05:05 AM
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Spitfire1
Key Veteran
Location: Perth Australia

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		I use pretty much the same setup with 15t pinion just ALign 100 amp esc. I use medium timeing on my esc not high.

Im just wondering how hot it gets over there where you are in the Emirates, here where I am in Perth we get 35 - 40 in the summer, common sense tells me flying electrics in anything over 35 degrees has to be asking for trouble.
That being said its amazing how cool these Scorpions stay, something must be wrong, the scorpion motor should never get anywhere near as warm as the stock Align motors do.

Maybe try 100% instead of 90%, but I would not of thought 90% would have caused any probs other than possibly makeing the esc run hotter, at 100% with the 15t the headspead is not that high.
10-18-2009 05:16 AM
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Spitfire1
Key Veteran
Location: Perth Australia

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		I take it you are oiling the bearings ever 5 or so flights.
If its not a new motor I would check the bearings for signs of wear.
10-18-2009 05:24 AM
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Heli 770
rrProfessor
Location: Lemon Grove, Ca. USA.

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		You should check your solder connections on the ESC to motor.
10-18-2009 06:12 AM
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ikotikot
Heliman
Location: United Arab Emirates

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		temperature

ambient temperature is +/- 35deg.

motor is about 2month old and bearings are oiled every 4-5 flights.

i will try 100% flat on the TC. will check out all solders and everything again including the TIMING on the ESC.

thanks guys.

fly it like a sim, order like it's free
10-18-2009 06:19 AM
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outhouse
Veteran
Location: auburn ca

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		it has to be a esc setting issue.

generaly speaking the bearings will make some noise before they will start cooking the motor. [outright bearing exploding doesnt count ]
10-18-2009 06:47 AM
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mckrackin
Key Veteran
Location: lucasville,ohio USA

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		My set up was about the same as yours and my 4025 1100kv ran a little hot for the first few batteries.
It seemed to get cooler and cooler with every flight though.

Break in period maybe?

I started oiling the bearings after about 8 or 10 batteries and it really showed improvement then.

I starting oiling every 10 batteries or so after.
10-18-2009 06:54 AM
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Ben-T-Spindle
rrProfessor
Location: Central Illinois

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		I have not run a Scorpion motor with an Align but I would suspect that the timing is not optimal causing the motor to loose efficiency. With my CC ESC’s I run low timing (2 or 3 with the latest software) and everything runs cool. Scorpion motors are good to over 200F so hot is a relative term.




... BTS
10-18-2009 11:12 AM
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ikotikot
Heliman
Location: United Arab Emirates

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		TIMING

yup, i suspect the timing was set to high, so that's the first thing i will check when i get back from work in november (i'm working offshore).

thanks for all the input guys, you are all great.

fly it like a sim, order like it's free
10-18-2009 11:34 AM
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erichevy
Veteran
Location: Zevenhoven The Netherlands

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		I use the same Scorpion 4025-1100 motor and 15t pinion and I use the Align 75amp esc with the mid-timing !
I use the Turnugy 5000mah 6S lipo bat and the motor never gets hot.
It gets barely warm.
Btw, I got my Trex second hand and it had the pinion to maingear fitted such a way it had no endplay.
I changed this to just a "tad" endplay. You can use a piece of paper for this to fit between these two gears, it should fold at the teeth but not tear open.
Maybe your gears are a little bit too tight.
It won't hurt to try and run them with a bit more clearance and see what it does with the engine temp.

Eric.
10-19-2009 08:30 PM
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ikotikot
Heliman
Location: United Arab Emirates

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		i would try checking that as well again. thanks buddy.

i agree, there shouldn't be any slop between the pinion and main gear otherwise you would be stripping the main gears.

another constraint is the super soft start of the 100a hobbywing pentium esc - it really is not super soft, i need to tweak on the throttle curve so it will be gentle on the main gear on spool up.

BTW, i also noticed that it's not easy to rotate the blades with the scorpion, the shaft is a lot stiffer to rotate compared to other motors, is that the same on your scorpions?

fly it like a sim, order like it's free
10-20-2009 12:40 AM
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Spitfire1
Key Veteran
Location: Perth Australia

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		Ive been running my gear mesh always tending towards the "too lose" side for a long time now, and never had a stripped gear, so you can jiggle the maingear inside the pinion and see an obvious gap, the only time I have stripped a gear was when I accidentily squirted oil on my pinion while oiling my bearings.
10-20-2009 01:57 AM
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patterkid
Heliman
Location: Traverse city, MI

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		Ive always ran my Scorpion 4025-1100 on "outrunner" mode on my Castle Creations ESC's..

SUPER cool after flight
10-20-2009 03:14 PM
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erichevy
Veteran
Location: Zevenhoven The Netherlands

My Posts This: Topic  Forum
Quote 
BTW, i also noticed that it's not easy to rotate the blades with the scorpion

That's normal with these motors, they have strong neodymium magnets inside, and this prevents to turn the motor easy as you might be used to.
..
My gears where tight (no lash)also, when I first started up my trex and after losening the pinion I gained quite some rpm's on the main blades.
So , obvious it takes some more power to turn everything


Eric.
10-20-2009 03:50 PM
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ikotikot
Heliman
Location: United Arab Emirates

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		still getting HOT!

i have now tweaked again with the scorpion motor.
-loosen up the pinion a bit by a normal bond paper
-changed the timing from high to low
-had the throttle curve straight 100%
-oiled the bearing

still the scorpion gets hot. not much difference with the temperature i was getting with the stock align 650L. i'm afraid to do back to back flight on it.

the hobbywing 100a pentium esc is barely warm though.

guess i got the lemon scorpion, what do you guys think? thanks.

fly it like a sim, order like it's free
11-03-2009 01:55 AM
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Spitfire1
Key Veteran
Location: Perth Australia

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		My suggestion is just fly it and not worry, if you have tried everything else theres not much you can do, I would change you timing atleast back to medium and fly it until it starts to lose power, it will probly be fine, the Align motors seem to last anywhere from 6 months - 2 years and they run very hot as you know.

I did notice last time I flew my 600e the scorpion was alot hotter than I remember it to be, Maybe Im used to my 500e temps now.

I think once the weather gets past 30 degrees theres not much you can do, electrics just get hot.

P.s I asked a fellow flyer if his motor gets hot also and he said he doesent know as hes never felt it, may sound odd but if you think about it theres not much you can do anyway other than not fly your heli, if your going to fly anyway it doesent really matter how hot the motor is, if it stops working it stops working.
11-03-2009 04:51 AM
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honeybeeman
Senior Heliman
Location: kenner, LA

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		just a question on oiling the berings on the motor, do u do both bearings top and bottom? and how do u oil the bottom bering, i dont c a place to oil it? thanks
11-03-2009 03:38 PM
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e-Align T-REX 250-450-500-600 > T-REX 600 Scorpion 4025-1100 getting hot
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