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Advantage Hobby . Revolution Models . CarbonXtreme

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Computer Flight Simulators > Phoenix v2.5.s update
 
 
robgt
Heliman
Location: Shrewsbury, Shropshire, UK

My Posts This: Topic  Forum

Moot points?
I disagree - all the "physics issues" you have mentioned are actually model tuning issues - nothing more.

As a learning tool, Phoenix works very well, IMO.

Cheers,
Rob

Avant Aurora
10-17-2009 01:33 AM
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floop
Veteran
Location: Southern, NJ

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		please post your model tuning variants for us to try. The settings you changed in a model should be enough.

I have tried and it is impossible to get it to fly right. I hope Phoenix picks up on this post and fixes the issue.

IT's what I do.
10-17-2009 01:52 AM
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dogg5306
Veteran
Location: Brussels, Belgium

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		That's the reason why I'm missing most of my inverted autos


MA Stratus
2*Hirobo Turbulence D3 EX
Henseleit TDR (not delivered yet)
10-17-2009 02:06 AM
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robgt
Heliman
Location: Shrewsbury, Shropshire, UK

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		I mainly use the default Aurora model on the Active variant.
No modifications.

Cheers,
Rob

Avant Aurora
10-17-2009 12:02 PM
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helical
Senior Heliman
Location: Bowling Green, KY

My Posts This: Topic  Forum
Quote 
Most important:
2. Phoenix is a learning tool. Most of the people using it are learning to fly. How are they supposed to tune out the physics problems?

Phoenix has improved my real life flying tremendously.

I agree with Rob that the models can be tuned to better match your real-world heli. This is not a physics problem (for the most part...no sim is perfect).
10-17-2009 04:24 PM
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floop
Veteran
Location: Southern, NJ

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		Great. Helical can you post your variant that made your model fly like real life in 2.5s or better than 2.0n.

IT's what I do.
10-17-2009 06:42 PM
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MartyH
Elite Veteran
Location: Cincinnati

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		I just completed the upgrading all the way from 1.04e to 2.5s. I can't bog the heli without ruining other aspects. I really like the sim but the physics definately need work.

Marty,
Raptor 90 3D, Freya and more
10-19-2009 01:21 PM
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puma1824
Senior Heliman
Location: Maryland, USA

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		One thing that I have observed with Phoenix as well as other sims is how different hardware can make a sim "feel" different. I have both Phoenix and Realflight G4 / G4.5 and noticed I have to tune each model depending on the hardware I'm using. I currently use/used both sims on 7 different systems with different HW specs (3 desktops, 4 laptops...one being a mac) I like to use my own remote as much as possible, so I do so in RF as well and obviously with Phoenix.

With Phoenix, I've done a few tweaks from system to system, for example:

- slowing down the physics down to 85-90%
- changing TX pitch or throttle curves (disabled governor)
- changing TX end-points to ether increase or decrease flip or roll rates to better match my real heli(s)
- change weight and/or rotor disk size to deal with "floatiness"
- change hover stability
- change disk loading (forgot the name of it)

By changing these things I can hop from G4 to Phoenix and not "feel" a difference.
10-19-2009 03:04 PM
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Stolla
Senior Heliman
Location: Port elizabeth South Africa

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		All simulators are as different as real time heli's, not one will fly the same. I have set up and flew many, many machines and unless they are the same brand with the same hardware and or software they will fly different.
At the same time 2 people flying the same heli will have different perceptions on the sim as to what feels realistic.
So my advice is to go fly the different sims before you buy and then get what feels "right"
What i can attest to is that i've seen more beginners progress faster on phoenix than any other sim for whatever reason, I've had and flown every decent sim out there and settled on phoenix for ease of operation and adjustments. Currently all my heli's which includes 6 vbars as well as a couple of f/bars from 250's to 90's electric and nitro have all been setup to "feel" like the real thing.
And this is where i feel phoenix has the advantage as its easier to tune and adjust than anything else.
If you can't get it right recalibrate your tx, do this after every upgrade to be sure you start with a clean slate.
I have to disagree that there is a problem with the physics in phoenix, when working on new manouvres i'm constantly amazed as to how similar my heli reacts to the sim.

Common sense may not be common after all
10-19-2009 03:57 PM
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MrMel
rrProfessor
Location: Lidingo, Sweden (GMT+1)

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		There is no sim in the world that can fit all users, period!

I have two identical machines except mainblades, and they fly WAY different, I mean its totally different experience to fly.

How could one model in the sim fit that?

My site: http://heli.dacsa.net
10-19-2009 09:03 PM
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T-Rex-Flyer
Key Veteran
Location: Panama City, Fl

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		MrMel +1, the voice of reason.

If the wings are traveling faster than the fuselage, it's probably a helicopter.
10-19-2009 11:15 PM
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dragonflya
Heliman
Location: Heli Heaven Sherwood, OR

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		Ya Floop, I feel your pain....but i disagree

Stolla +1
Robgt +1
Mrmel +1
2.0n was a great version, that one helped me "get" the auto, and inverted autos came right after. Then in real life I did my first aileron roll to inverted and roll out 25' off the deck, it was easier than the sim (once I musted up the courage). In the newer releases, there were updates that felt funky, and they would change them. My 700N and 600N feel real close to the same as Pheonix, but I constantly tweak the settings here and there. Just as in real life, one heli to the next always feels different. Factor in the setup, electronics, tuning, weather, flight to flight mechanical wear and my real heli's only stay "right" for a few flights before something needs tweaking. The current version may not be perfect, but I have been able to finally also "get" the funnels in all 4 directions (after a solid month of sim time), inverted flipping and rolling autos and now blade stop autos. I can say that the sim is more difficult than real life (excluding the pucker factor), and I am very happy with that. Now if I could just tame those dumb thumbs and piro flips into something controllable...

Team Westside Heli
FlexPro
"The" Heli Hellion
10-22-2009 06:54 PM
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floop
Veteran
Location: Southern, NJ

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		drogonflya, same question then. Post your variant that flies like real life. This isn't a computer difference problem. I have tested Phoenix 2.5s on a range of machines with the same result.

For the record, I am saying that the game engine does not simulate real life as well as 2.0n did regardless of how you tweak your model or your hardware. I am NOT saying that sims or Phoenix are not good for beginners to learn.

IT's what I do.
10-22-2009 07:52 PM
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dragonflya
Heliman
Location: Heli Heaven Sherwood, OR

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		Floop,
Roger that, will do this evening when I get home to the sim

Team Westside Heli
FlexPro
"The" Heli Hellion
10-22-2009 09:40 PM
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AcidKindred
Senior Heliman
Location: Mobile, AL - USA

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		If there are differences even with identical machines, then how is the setup parameters going to help if it will not match everyone's particular heli and setup? I guess it may show that it is indeeed possible to make the changes needed to make things more realistic.

Align T-Rex 700N
Rave 450
Compass Knight 3D
10-23-2009 06:38 PM
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robgt
Heliman
Location: Shrewsbury, Shropshire, UK

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		There are so many parameters you can change on a model in Phoenix that you should be able to get a model flying much like your own model.

Create more variants and make tweaks to allow for any variances that you want or need.

Personally, I'm not that bothered about a heli flying like my own model, I just use the sim to help me learn moves - I find it translates very well to the real model once the thumbs have learned roughly what to do.

Cheers,
Rob

Avant Aurora
10-23-2009 07:16 PM
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Computer Flight Simulators > Phoenix v2.5.s update
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