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Aerobatic FAI F3C Contest > Needed: K&S Sprague Hub for Sylphide 90
 
 
joec
Senior Heliman
Location: VA

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		Well this was news to me, but K&S no longer makes the sprague hub for the Sylphide. Does anyone have and want to sell, or know where I can get a K&S Sprague hub, part number 1567?

I'm desperate to get one....

Joe
10-14-2009 03:12 PM
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ymuraki
Heliman
Location: Tampa, FL

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		Joe,
If you got C-version of Sylphide, auto hub is much better than original one. They supposed to beefed up hub.
I have not had issues with auto hub (yet) on my C-version.

If you still want K&S one, why don't you e-mail to K&S direct to see if they can locate one from their dealers.

Nob
10-14-2009 03:37 PM
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joec
Senior Heliman
Location: VA

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		My current model isnt a C version... but my new one is.... I didnt realize that they improved the hub with the C-version. So if I cant find a K&S hub, then I will go with stock. But glad to hear you havent had any problems with it.

I did email K&S to ask them if they had any or knew where I could find one... but I figured I would ask here in case someone had one lying around.

Thanks for your help, Nob.
10-14-2009 05:14 PM
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Chris.C
Senior Heliman
Location: Hong Kong

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		The auto hub had been a PITA parts caused a lot of trouble unless I learnt how to deal with it.

Basically, you don't need the K&S hub if you know how. Search the forum, I remember somebody posted great tip about it. The std one can last.
10-15-2009 02:48 AM
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joec
Senior Heliman
Location: VA

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		Chris... is this what you meant??

http://www.runryder.com/helicopter/t55473p1/

I wonder if you can use this K&S part: 1151 (which supposedly works with the Venture 90)
http://www.ks-j.net/xo/modules/prod.../make_new-E.cgi

Also...do you think I can just figure out what the sprague is and buy it separetly?

Or as I understand it the Xcell sprague from the Fury is the same one that K&S used... I wonder if that can be retrofitted...
10-15-2009 04:27 AM
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Chris.C
Senior Heliman
Location: Hong Kong

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		Nope. The thread explains the operation of one-way pretty well and it is a good reference. However, it is not SY specific. Since you are looking for an upgrade so I presume you have problem with the std. If yes, can you describe what is your problem.

The K&S part for Venture does not fit SY. The sprag made by K&S is special for SY. My friend did have one in his SY and experience shows that the mileage can be longer but it still fails.
10-15-2009 04:38 AM
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joec
Senior Heliman
Location: VA

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		I have not yet had a problem with the standard hub. However, I know that there was definitely a chronic problem with the stock one. And I really dont want to take a chance using the stock one if its going to fail.

As for the K&S one... I have no evidence that it fails... for example the Sylphide's that Scott Gray flies are 5 years old and no failure... so... I think the K&S part is far superior.
10-15-2009 04:44 AM
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Chris.C
Senior Heliman
Location: Hong Kong

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		Most of failures(mine and my friends)are the hub shaft locked against the bearing in contrast to failure like Hirobo's one way where most of the cases, the one way does not engage. I know there is a failure when I do autorotation. With close analysis on the bearing, it is the plastic cage holding the pin rollers broke and the pins misaligned.

As far as I remember, Mark Christy made some writeup here in RR to describe what should be done to this problem.
10-15-2009 05:10 AM
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synodontis
Key Veteran
Location: United Kingdom

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		I believe the thread you are referring to is Augusto's thread about how the one ways works and why they fail. You should be able to search for it here. The conclusion of it was to have the one way bearing fit slightly lose on the housing, this lets it have more "give" to move, basically the rollers have time to align first before hitting the locking.

Chris, exactly what have you done to yours to solve the problem?
10-15-2009 09:26 AM
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Chris.C
Senior Heliman
Location: Hong Kong

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		With a new set of hub bearing and shaft, trial fit the shaft into the bearing. the shaft should be able to go in and out with ease. Most of the case with a new set, it will not because of the coating on the shaft. I use sand paper of 1000 then 1200 to polish it. I don't have lathe so I bolted the shaft onto the main mast like it supposed to and then grap the mast with a drill. do not grap the shaft.

Just remove the coating should be sufficient. Mind you to wash the shaft thoroughly with WD40 before trial fit each time. After that, pack the bearing with differential grease, e.g. made by Kyosho or Tamiya.
10-15-2009 10:34 AM
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mdu6
Key Veteran
Location: Montreal

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		Is it just the one way bearing you are looking for ?

This should be easy to get.


81001 14 x 20 x 16 HF1416 (this is for the Comp model I believe).

http://www.bocabearings.com/main1.a...id=819&n=HF1416


----- Ah, I just reread the thread, the sprague+hub are already an
upgrade to the HF1416 ... wonder if the SG sprague+hub would help you ?
10-15-2009 10:39 AM
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synodontis
Key Veteran
Location: United Kingdom

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		so Chris the idea is to give it some room to move, this way the rollers have space to align when engaged to lock?

I still have my other locked hub, and strangely enough, if I put it back in the machine it will unlock itself and then lock itself over time etc. . . I'll try what you suggest and see if this fixes the problem. It's a whole lot cheaper than having to buy another hub.

I believe Mark Christy reccommended not to have ANY up and down play on the shaft, this probably lead to roller pin misalignment too.
10-15-2009 11:14 AM
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Chris.C
Senior Heliman
Location: Hong Kong

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		Even though we can buy exactly the same one-way bearing in local store, we did not. the material of the auto hub is pretty soft which can not take second time press fitting a bearing. Don't ask me how I know.

Synodontis,

Yes, I guess it is the tiny space that matters. So far it works fine.
Yes, Mark recommended. I remember he recommended to push the hub up when fixing the set screws. During hard landing, this setup may help to avoid another lock.
10-16-2009 02:38 AM
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joec
Senior Heliman
Location: VA

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		Does anyone know if it would be possible to get the sprague bearing and use that instead?
10-16-2009 04:13 AM
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synodontis
Key Veteran
Location: United Kingdom

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		I have not opened the unit, but I am almost certain that the sprag in question is the same as the one used by XCell, so the sprag in question is:

http://www.ronlund.com/Merchant2/me...t_Code=MA0866-8

and this bearing is, I am almost certain, being used by Hirobo and other manufacturer's too (including the TRex 700). The Synergy uses a different sprag, it has one or two more sprogs I believe.

But having this sprag is not enough, you can't just take the stock Sylphide hub and just put it in. For starters the material is not hard enough, if you play with then K&S unit you'll see how hard the material is, and if you look at the XCell unit you'll see it has a harden sleeve for the sprag to lock against:

http://www.ronlund.com/Merchant2/me...&Category_Code=

(Hirobo also uses a harden sleeve to hold the sprag) and secondly the Sylphide unit has depression grooves to hold the torrington oneway which is not good, so either you lathe this out and by then the hole might be too big. So the short answer is no, it can't be done, and there's not much material room anyway.

If I had a lathe and other machining parts I can probably make my own unit, but it's just not worth my while.
10-16-2009 11:47 AM
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cmir2425
Senior Heliman
Location: miami, fl usa

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		Have you tried Rcjapan.net? That is where I got mine last year. Maybe they have one.
10-29-2009 02:34 AM
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joec
Senior Heliman
Location: VA

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		Yep tried everywhere... actually I did find one.. got it from K&S they had 1 laying around.
10-29-2009 02:40 AM
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Aerobatic FAI F3C Contest > Needed: K&S Sprague Hub for Sylphide 90
 
 
cmir2425
Senior Heliman
Location: miami, fl usa

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		Great! Too bad K&S has discontinued a lot of the Sylphide upgrades they used to have.
10-29-2009 02:43 AM
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Midland Helicopters . HeliProz . Ron’s HeliProz South

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Aerobatic FAI F3C Contest > Needed: K&S Sprague Hub for Sylphide 90
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