RunRyder RC Helicopter Topic - 231PUH RPM ?

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Gasser Model RC Helicopters > 231PUH RPM ?

Fixit
Elite Veteran
Location: UK

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I’ve been building a 700 gasser for sometime now and after a lot of problems and changes it’s broken in and flying pretty well now, I’m at the point now where I need to set the governor and I would like some advice on what engine RPM would be best suited for the present setup, I ended up with a ratio of 5.75:1 because of availability of parts and frame design and don’t really want to make anymore changes now

I’m running
231PUH stock
5.75:1 Ratio
700 blades
+10 -6 pitch

These are a few options open to me and I would like your opinion on what RMP and Head speed would be best suited for this setup

10,000 = 1,739
10,500 = 1,826
11,000 = 1,913
11,500 = 2,000

Cheers

I only like to fly gassed up

10-11-2009 09:40 PM

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smallplanes
Key Veteran
Location: Timmonsville,S.C. ,USA

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I don't know but i think peak rpms for the 26cc is around 12500 that would give you a rpm of 2173 but i don't know the rpms of that motor. You need someone to chime in an tell you the max rpms.

Thanks and i hop you get it right

Spectra G 26cc
Jewel
2 Evo 50's
3 Trex 450's
Trex 700
Raptor50
12Z

10-11-2009 10:11 PM

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Fixit
Elite Veteran
Location: UK

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smallplanes
I know the Max RPM for the 231 is 13000 but with the ratio I'm running the head speed would be ballistic at that RPM, the engine is running at 10,000 at the moment and sounds happy but I'm just looking for advice on what speed would give the best performance without labouring the motor or the other extreme and blowing it

I only like to fly gassed up

10-11-2009 11:19 PM

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pgkevet
Key Veteran
Location: surrey UK

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...look like 4 good settings to me..idle down, idle 1,2&3

pgk

10-11-2009 11:40 PM

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rbort
Elite Veteran
Location: Franklin, MA - U.S.A.

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Well

With your gear ratio the faster you run it the more power you'll get.

What you need to do is put more pitch in it and see what rpm handles the pitch the best and you'll sort of know where you stand. With those engines max power is close to 13k, max torque is on the order of 10k.

If I was you I'd probably run it at 1900 rpms as that is where the nitro boys run theirs and just go with whatever power you get.

-=>Raja.

1005 Gasser, G26 3DMax++, 2205+ flights
Spectra-g, G26 3DMax, 865+ flights

10-12-2009 04:57 AM

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kogibankole
Veteran
Location: albuquerque

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i think your gearing is very good.
The trex is the lightest gasser so I would gear for headspeed, then manage the collective to sustain it. Or try some 690 main blades. Are you into 3D flying? Has the motor been modified? Infact I just went up from a 13T pinion to a 14 in my predator. Bringing me to a 6.4 GR. When you spin the head up to 2000 at 75% power then you know you have a powerful heli. The gas engines are torquey, so lets use it to our advantage

.

if im not blade bogging youll find me pack puffing

10-12-2009 02:16 PM

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Fixit
Elite Veteran
Location: UK

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Quote
Has the motor been modified?

No stock motor 23PUH

Thanks guys, I thought with the gearing it would be better to have the motor running near max rpm at the desired head speed and that made me think the ratio was a bit low and probably better suited to a 26 but I have two new 231s so I had to use one

I tried the head speed at 1900 but it sounded a bit scary for a gasser

the mechanics should withstand the head speed as Raja pointed out so I will try a few different settings this coming weekend.

I only like to fly gassed up

10-12-2009 05:20 PM

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unochen
Senior Heliman
Location: Taipei,Taiwan

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Hi
I recommend you to use Futaba GV-1 to measured and recorded head speed.
Futaba GV-1 maximum speed when the throttle stick is 95% or more from the high side is memorized.
It can be used to check the engine power.

10-12-2009 11:49 PM

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Fixit
Elite Veteran
Location: UK

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I’m not in the elite GV1 Group and make do with a Revlock and a Tacho although I do keep watching out for one

I only like to fly gassed up

10-13-2009 01:52 AM

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kogibankole
Veteran
Location: albuquerque

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ive noticed that running the motor up to max rpm without adequate load creates huge vibrations in the airframe regardless of balanced motor etc etc...I TRY keep mine below 11500, putting a big pinion on the motor too helps, as any excess over revs will go to the blades. The predator is a very strong heli, just make sure everything is tight and true. I have used the stator gator and the gv1, but curves work best for me.

if im not blade bogging youll find me pack puffing

10-15-2009 03:47 PM

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Dr. Fibinotchi
Key Veteran
Location: Sioux Falls SD

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well...

There is a school of thought that load on an engine is good. Running max rpm in not all instances produces vibration though. There is a lot of reasons for vibration. bearings in the motor do wear out and we can't just run 100 gallons of fuel through it and expect new performance. My motor doesnt exibit an increase in vibs past what its ported at.

You can run up the rpm's to whatever rpm you want, but it will NOT produce more 'power' all of the time. As I found the porting on an engine matters. If you port something at 12.2k and run it at 13.2k like I did on my 27 I can see a visible diminish in climbout speed regardless of needle settings and heat on a motor. you will see the same. A lot of smoke, but not any substance.

Gears I agree is not the best choice, but it works. With that gearing you will need to put more head room in your collective in FFF. Fast turns with low gearing like that will load your head more that the 6.9 guys.

-C

10-15-2009 05:55 PM

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xcellgasman101
Elite Veteran
Location: WOODWARD, OKLA....

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Quote
10,000 = 1,739 10,500 = 1,826 11,000 = 1,913 11,500 = 2,000

Heck,, Try them all and see which ones give you the best bang at each differant HS,, I'll bet the upper ones, 2000, to 2100 is going to be singing,,

But I'll bet you will find one that works the best.. XGM/VGM

John Crotts
www.soonerhelicamproductions.com

10-21-2009 04:39 AM

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Fixit
Elite Veteran
Location: UK

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Quote
If I was you I'd probably run it at 1900 rpms as that is where the nitro boys run theirs and just go with whatever power you get.

1900 sounded about right but 2000 and above sounded a bit scary for a gasser and I'm not sure if it could handel those speeds for any lenght of time but I will take all the advice given and try them all.

I tried the Heli at the weekend but after the first flight (1900) the motor started pulsing so I had to abandon trying different head speeds, when I got it home the muffler is still tight with no sign of leaking and the carb gaskets were dry and the bulb was ¾ full of fuel, I’m using a felt clunk and the filter looks spotless so I’m lost as to why this happened, I did find condensation inside when I pull the cover off the carb to check the filter and I’m wondering if that would cause the pulsing, anyway I’ve blown the carb out with compressed air and will give it another try tonight if the weather holds out.

I only like to fly gassed up

10-21-2009 12:06 PM

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Fixit
Elite Veteran
Location: UK

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I’ve had the carb off that many times trying to sort this problem I ended stripping the threads on the used Z-RC block and when I removed the block too repair it the Teflon gasket next too the engine was deformed and that was probably caused by me nipping the bolts up tighter than I should have

the Z-RC block now has coils in the stripped threads and with a new gasket its preformed brilliant today for half a dozen flights.
Working up the head speeds today the heli seems to like 1900 but I’m going to try 2000 next week and then let one of the 3D guys put it through its paces while I hold a Video recorder if I can borrow one.
Plug Question
When I pull the plug I’m seeing a slightly rich setting on the carb side of the plug but on the exhaust side it still looks like new, is this normal?

I only like to fly gassed up

10-25-2009 07:52 PM

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j.8
Veteran
Location: Denmark

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Hi

Looks like it`s rich on oil, and a bit lean on the jetting

Regards Bo

10-25-2009 08:27 PM

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Fixit
Elite Veteran
Location: UK

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Quote
Looks like it`s rich on oil, and a bit lean on the jetting

j.8
I’m using 40:1 synthetic,
Lean? What side of the plug are you reading? I thought the carb side looked slightly rich.
The piston is in preesteen condition on booth sides with no sings of burning.

I only like to fly gassed up

10-25-2009 08:38 PM

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j.8
Veteran
Location: Denmark

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Hi Fixit

It might be the picture, but the carb side looks blackish,
witch could have been a bit rich on oil, indication.

The reason I said a bit lean on the needles, is that
the plug is burned totally clean on the exhaust side.
When I used pumped gas, I had the same brown colour
all around the spark plug.

But if your piston is without any burnmarks, and
no carbon betweene piston and piston ring. Then
evrything sounds ok.

BTW the blackish look could have come from an
"idle cooling down periode" as well
Regards Bo

10-25-2009 10:00 PM

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Richardmid1
Key Veteran
Location: Leeds, England

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Hi Fixit, I remember from my trials bike days that you had to totally cut the engine at full throttle and then check the plug.

Eden George born 10/03/08, future 3D Masters winner!

10-25-2009 10:50 PM

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Fixit
Elite Veteran
Location: UK

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j.8

Thanks j.8 , I might just back out the low needle a blade width for now and watch the muffler side of the plug and see if it colours up any, I've had a few gassers but I've never noticed the plug colour up differently at both sides.

I only like to fly gassed up

10-25-2009 11:29 PM

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Fixit
Elite Veteran
Location: UK

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Hi Richard

your right and ideally it would be better if I cut the engine in flight and then auto down before reading the plug but I need to practice a few low autos with it first to see what it autos like with the 3D blades on, maybe you could auto it next week and I'll read the plug

I only like to fly gassed up

10-25-2009 11:37 PM

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