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Revolution Models . CarbonXtreme . Midland Helicopters

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Miniature Aircraft Nitro/Gas Helicopters > Xcell 60 tail wag and various other questions
 
 
Nuke Power
New Heliman
Location: Groton, Ct

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		I recently traded one of my RTR submarines for a RTR xcel 60.
This is what i got with it
futaba 9cap
os 61 engine
gy 401
digital servos and the lot

It was built and "flight tested"

Now I have never played with a heli of this size. All my previous experience has been with an axe cp.

My problem as of right now is that the tail wags left to right in about a 1 foot box but still maintains the tail in this area. I have tried adjusting the gain from 40 to 85 % with no affect. I tried readjusting the linkage and servo to eliminate binding with no success. I replaced the tail servo with a better digital servo. No effect.
The blades are tracking and are fairly close in weight (at least a gram my scale isn't super accurate)

Where else can I poke my nose to figure this out. I have a spare gy 240 I thought about throwing on to see if its a bad gyro?
I did find the main gear was resting on the clutch assembly and fixed that. It didn't eliminate the wagging but did allow the head to spin more freely.

As is right now the heli will lift off and after about 15seconds of being air born it will start to gradually build into its full wag. The wag seems to go away in fwd flight though but I have not pushed it as I do not want to lose the tail in fwd flight and totally crash.

Also does anyone know where I can find the manual for this engine. I want to reset the needles and try to re-tune the engine for my different climate but have had no luck finding one.

Thanx

Kevin
10-11-2009 09:18 PM
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edward74
Heliman
Location: Titusville, Florida

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		60

check you head speed keep it around 1700 normal, make sure motor is not running to rich, or try different gyro
10-11-2009 09:37 PM
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Nuke Power
New Heliman
Location: Groton, Ct

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		OK found the engine manual and re tuned it and it works way better. Still have the tail wag though. Re weighed the blades and they are good. I am going to take the head apart next and see if the main shaft is bent.
10-11-2009 09:40 PM
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Thomas L Erb
Veteran
Location: Alliance ohio

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		Hi Kevin Is the gyro light solid? if so try to turn the gyro to normal mode and see what that does to the wag. by the way how did you adjust the gain % , via the dial on the top of the gyro or in the radio, If you get it into normal mode and it stops waging check to see if you have a torque tube drive or a wire drive. What servo do you have on the tail and what is the distance from the center of the servo arm to the pushrod ball.

sorry for all the ?,s but there are many things that can cause the wag.

Tom
10-11-2009 11:36 PM
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Nuke Power
New Heliman
Location: Groton, Ct

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		Not at Thomas
The light is solid when the plane boots up because it is booting in avcs like the manual told me to.
I have not gone to normal mode yet so I will have to get back to you on that one. I am almost afraid to see what it will do. The delay is set to zero as the manual recommends and the throw of the arm is correct. ( I was at heli phenomenon today in New England and we looked at some of the heli). The tail servo is a futaba s9254

The gain is being adjusted via the 9cap

I do have a torques tube

The ball on the servo arm is centered with the middle of the sevo.

Kevin

Atleast the engine now starts up on the first crank. The idle valve was open about 6 turns. Factory recommends 2 LOL
10-12-2009 12:13 AM
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Nuke Power
New Heliman
Location: Groton, Ct

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		Hazzaaa I just found a bent main shaft. Its not alot but I suppose at with this much weight and this size it makes a very big deal?

Does anyone know the part number for the main shaft? I have been looking at exploded drawings and on heliproz but cant seem to find it.
10-12-2009 12:31 AM
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xcell90
Heliman
Location: utica, mi., us

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		Which X-cell? The 1004 with a slipper clucth & the SE with the split gear Part #0614.
10-12-2009 02:22 AM
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Nuke Power
New Heliman
Location: Groton, Ct

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		mine is the 1001 x cell 60 st
10-12-2009 02:29 AM
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Nuke Power
New Heliman
Location: Groton, Ct

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		Thank you sir you were most correct!
For those of you who may be reading this later on and want to know

The original part number was 0203, however they have not been making this for a while. You may find some in some shops. If not, you can use main shaft number 0614 , with the following hardware 1 x 0619, 1 x 0019, 1 x 0067.

Kevin
10-12-2009 03:07 AM
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biglahou
Senior Heliman
Location: Idaho, the potato land, with better looking women.

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		Most important is that 401 likes the 105 tail blade size.
I only have 105 on all 5 heli's.

OK,,,SO WHAT, IM ADDICTED, WHATS YOUR POINT?
10-12-2009 03:29 AM
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Thomas L Erb
Veteran
Location: Alliance ohio

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		kevin here is another link to help you with part id for your machine.

http://www.rchelibase.com/xcell/


Tom
10-12-2009 03:30 AM
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xcell90
Heliman
Location: utica, mi., us

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		If you need an instruction set the part number is for the .60ST
is 0503-0. It listed for $24.95.
10-12-2009 04:29 AM
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Nuke Power
New Heliman
Location: Groton, Ct

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		Oh man you guys are great.

I am going to take the head apart and see if the feathering shaft is bent while I am at it. Gonna drop the motor and see if the rubber kidneys in the clutch are ok because I can see them sticking above the plate. Not sure if they are supposed to be flush or not.

I will measure the tail rotor size.
10-12-2009 02:04 PM
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Nuke Power
New Heliman
Location: Groton, Ct

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		When measuring the tail rotors do you measure from the bolt hole to trailing edge or from edge to edge? Mine measure 105mm from bolt hole to edge and 115mm from end to end.

Also of note for anyone who needs to replace the stock feathering shaft part number 0315

If you have the plastic head you can get a BMT108S instead. It has a Delrin ball (sleeve) in the center that works with the plastic head block just fine. This was originally an upgrade part back in the old days and it should still work fine.
10-12-2009 05:34 PM
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Nuke Power
New Heliman
Location: Groton, Ct

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		I replaced the main shaft and ballanced the head while it was off.

Spun her up and the tracking was off. got that dialed back in.

Tail still wags. Any more ideas?
10-16-2009 10:17 PM
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airdodger
Elite Veteran
Location: Johnston USA

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		How far out is the ball on the arm, it's correct is not a distance. Next what type of blades are you using carbon or plastic on the tail? Next would be to check that the tube is not butted in tight it needs a little play. After that I would check that the one way bearing in the main gear is not slipping and grabbing. I thought you stated it was test flown?

Chris
10-16-2009 11:59 PM
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Nuke Power
New Heliman
Location: Groton, Ct

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		The ball on the arm is in on a circular horn with only one distance for the ball.
The tail blades are the original plastic ones.
The one way bearing is holding
Not sure what you mean about the tube?

It was test flown then dissasembled and shipped. I could have re assembled the head wrong but I used the exploded diagram for it and I dont think so. Could have been damaged during shipping. Could have been ripped off.

It has a pretty good vibration to it that I cant seem to find. That is usually in the head isnt it? I think I will pull the head back off and try to re ballance it again to make sure.... what a pain in the ass though!
10-17-2009 01:09 PM
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airdodger
Elite Veteran
Location: Johnston USA

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		I would try carbon tail blades first, they may be flexing too much. The wheel can be drilled at any point, if it is too far out that can cause the problem, try around 15mm from center. The engine will cause this so be sure it's running smooth. The tail boom can be inserted so that there is no play at either end of the torque tube, push in until it feels solid then back the tail boom out a little maybe an eight of an inch.

Chris
10-17-2009 02:04 PM
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alanrw
Heliman
Location: Chatsworth, Calif.

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		What main blades are you running? If the tail is shaking up and down (low frequency) then the head could be out of balance. Do you have flybar weights on the head? Assuming the tracking is spot on, I would try the weights. If the tail is shaking fast (high frequency) then the tail blades could be out of balance.

As for the drift in the gyro, try turning up the gain a few more % and see what that does.

alan
10-24-2009 05:50 AM
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Thomas L Erb
Veteran
Location: Alliance ohio

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		one more thing to look for if the motor is tuned smooth and and all head and tail shafts have been checked is be sure the front tail transmission shaft bearings. Does it have the 0832 HD transmission block? If not i would look for one. Have you idenified the exact model you have? If the front tranny bearings are bad they will wear the shaft and cause strong vibs also.
Tom
10-24-2009 01:19 PM
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Miniature Aircraft Nitro/Gas Helicopters > Xcell 60 tail wag and various other questions
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