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Thunder Tiger Raptors 30-90 - Imperio > RAPTOR 50 Titan 50/ Titan 50 SE difference ?
 
 
Jenny Tool
Heliman
Location: United Kingdom

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Can anyone tell me what difference there is between the Raptor 50 Titan and the latest Titan SE version, im refering to the parts, i did read it somewhere but lost the info, also has anyone used these parts on there old Raptors and what was the benefit in flight performance.

Thanks for your time
10-11-2009 09:55 AM
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Ben-T-Spindle
rrProfessor
Location: Central Illinois

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Is this what you are looking for?
http://runryder.com/helicopter/gall..._comparison.pdf

... BTS
10-11-2009 11:36 AM
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Jenny Tool
Heliman
Location: United Kingdom

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Thank you very much Ben T Spindle that is a massive help all the info i need. Just need someone with experience on fitting SE parts to the Titan and how it flies.
10-11-2009 12:28 PM
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T-Rex-Flyer
Key Veteran
Location: Panama City, Fl

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Quote 
Is this what you are looking for?
http://runryder.com/helicopter/gall..._comparison.pdf

+1 Very helpful Pdf file.

If the wings are traveling faster than the fuselage, it's probably a helicopter.
10-11-2009 02:26 PM
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Texmech
Senior Heliman
Location: Houston,TX

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How about the links?

I plan on resetting all my links to the right length during my v2 to SE head upgrade and I'm wondering which chart to follow for linkage lengths, the V2 chart or the SE chart. I have both charts in front of me and I noticed about a 3mm difference on one, a couple others are only 1 or 2 mm difference. It's not a big deal, just wondering if anyone else did this yet. I also read somewhere the new aileron control lever had some effect on the whole flight characteristics. Should I have bought that lever too? I'm not set up for push/pull, as a note.
I took this advice and bought the following parts:

Quote 
Thanks for contacting us. The following parts are needed to upgrade the head on the R50 V2 to a Titan SE completely. Please note that the main rotor grips have to be installed reversely.

PV0651 Harden Main Shaft
PV0652 Mixing Lever
PV0656 Metal Main Rotor Hub
PV0657 3D Damper
PV0660 Flybar Seesaw
PV0663 Main Rotor Grip
PV0672 Autorotation Tail Pulley
PV0673 One Way Clutch Shaft

Please feel free to contact our distributor, Ace Hobby, in the US for the nearest dealer to you.

Best regards,
Customer Service
Thunder Tiger Corp.

Good judgment comes from experience. Unfortunately, experience usually comes from bad judgment.
10-14-2009 05:12 PM
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S Bell
Senior Heliman
Location: Nova Scotia Canada

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Quote 
Should I have bought that lever too?

Yup that's part of the package. The belcrank output rod ends are rotated 90 degrees to remove binding at extreme throw. The ball and (rod-end)socket mechanism on the belcrank output now rotates instead of simply canting.

Raptors are everywhere
10-15-2009 03:01 PM
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Jenny Tool
Heliman
Location: United Kingdom

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Hello Texmex,

If you dont mind me asking how much did you pay in total for all these parts? The reason for asking is by the time you buy all the SE Titan upgrades how much difference would that be compared to a Titan SE kit? Im in the same boat with an original Titan.
10-15-2009 07:53 PM
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FlyingHigh450
Elite Veteran
Location: Macomb,Mi

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My buddy paid $110.00 and thats for every part you need for the new Titan SE head..

Trex 600N/hyper 50/MP5, Revmax,Spartan DS760/JR DS8900G,3 Align DS610's.
10-15-2009 11:21 PM
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Texmech
Senior Heliman
Location: Houston,TX

My Posts This: Topic  Forum
I paid $110 too, I forgot to order the Aileron levers. grr.. Billibob mentioned them in his post, but I went off a list from Dino in another thread. So.. Helipros! It's me again.
I'm just lucky it's payday.

Good judgment comes from experience. Unfortunately, experience usually comes from bad judgment.
10-16-2009 12:29 AM
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Texmech
Senior Heliman
Location: Houston,TX

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Looks like another $20
http://www.heliproz.com/prodinfo.asp?number=134667

Good judgment comes from experience. Unfortunately, experience usually comes from bad judgment.
10-16-2009 12:36 AM
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Jenny Tool
Heliman
Location: United Kingdom

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So how much would you guys in the U.S pay for a Kasama head for your Raptor and what would be the better head Kasama or Titan SE?
10-16-2009 06:34 PM
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S Bell
Senior Heliman
Location: Nova Scotia Canada

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Actually the SE head is lighter and has more bind free throw, especially so if you decide to elongate the oval slots and run 15/15 using the outer mixer holes. You also have two 3mm bolts holding the head to the mast which is nice. As it needs no clamp up this means less bulk.

The type of head could be a deciding factor too as a configuration with the mixers located on the grips does not lend itself ideally or as well to high throws like the SE head does with its flybar mounted mixers. The SE mixer balls do not cant but rotate instead thus adding to security.



The SE mixing ratio greatly improved tracking over the old TT design which many companies have copied with slight modification.

On the other hand maybe you like bling and don't need the extra SE performance.

Raptors are everywhere
10-16-2009 07:54 PM
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Jenny Tool
Heliman
Location: United Kingdom

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S.BELL

I was wondering what had the best flight performance re Kasama/Titan SE headon a Raptor 50 Titan? I think its fair to say Kasama is not "bling" and put on to a Titan 50 massively improves flight performance over the stock item. As i own a Titan 50 i wasnt to sure to either,

1 buy a titan se kit

2 buy a titan se head, fit on stock Titan

3 buy a kasama head, fit on stock Titan

to then gain more flight ability over money spent.
If im correct in assuming then i beleive that your the gentlemen that writes articles mainly on Raptors/technical issues for MHW (the only decent articles imo), so your feedback will be very much appreciated.

Regards

Chris
10-18-2009 09:00 AM
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S Bell
Senior Heliman
Location: Nova Scotia Canada

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Hi Chris,

Buy a Titan SE head and fit on stock Titan or buy the kit is what I'd look at personally. Depends on parts availability, how much you are comfortable spending and if you want the extra kit stuff for spares.

The SE roll belcranks and freewheel inner race are best to have and in line to the head block, dampers, mixers, flybar carrier, rear boom support mount,and mast. You can drill out the old white TR drive pulley bolt hole to 3.5mm. This is the initial package for upgrading parts I'd look at.

Hopefully you have the new angular TR feathering bearings and SS TR hub, or add them to the list of parts.

The rest of the SE stuff is certainly nice, more durable and blingful but not so important to flight quality.

$250 for a non TT aftermarket head is pretty steep. Fitting an aftermarket head misses the mark on other important structural stuff and at best won't fly any better than the SE head, plus it likely weighs more. If you add flight performance with an aggressive head the rest of helicopter is naturally under more stress.

I've taken the liberty to briefly list some key points and why.

Basic model modifications over the original Titan, to the best of my knowledge.

New mast
New head block
New mixers
New dampers
New blade grips
New red paddles
New rear boom support bracket
Carbon fin
New flybar carrier
Metal washout hub
New roll belcranks
New pinion
New clutch bell
New start shaft bearing with block
New metal idler pulleys on tail drive (Qt 3)
New rear metal driven pulley
New freewheel inner race with bigger bolt
New white belt drive gear
SS tail hub with new style angular contact bearings
New canopy and mounting system.
Selective use of button head screws
Metal tail rotor pitch plate.

Note-the new clutch bell will not fit the old pinion as it has a dowel feature at the end of the threads.


Past airframe bitches by modelers:

Not enough pop= 30 degrees travel and with a control speed up design
Slow cyclic=new mixers and paddles
Pitching in ff= mixers/delta and flybar carrier
Pinion bearing eating pinion= pinion retention nut with extra bearing
Drive bolts shearing=upgraded freewheel and mast
Tail boom wearing at boom support fitting= new fitting
Tail hub failures= SS hub with angular contact bearings
Failed idler pulleys=metal units
Rear pulley wear=new metal pulley
Head too soft and weak attachment=new head block and damping system
Woof=delta reversal
Canopy clip not secure enough=new canopy and mounting system




Past likes by modelers:
Mechanical interaction free system-no economy electronic ccpm layout
Simple reliable drive train, which has been copied exactly by what some like to call newer technology
Wide parts support and parts compatibility with older versions
Ease of setup

Raptors are everywhere
10-18-2009 12:53 PM
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Jenny Tool
Heliman
Location: United Kingdom

My Posts This: Topic  Forum
Dear S Bell,

Thank you for a detailed response on your last post. At the beginning of this thread there is a link and a parts list refering to this thread. I started to write down every new part number on the new Titan SE and was going to find out prices. "24 new part numbers came up(not including canopy) so before i calculated these parts into a final figure i already had my answer.

1 by the time i had bought all these or most of these SE parts i might as well sold my Titan airframe,second hand value aprox £100 on ebay and offset that against a new Titan SE kit. Bonus is i have also a completely new airframe.

2 go and by a Kasama head but at £185 a piece that to me is just a little too expensive. I have a Kasama head on another Titan and she flies fantastic but that was purchased at £135 a couple of years ago(exceptable back then).

3 As i realistically could never outfly my Titan ive decided on maybe run some 600"s with 20g paddles with a decent bench setup and dialled in electronically to liven things up and keep my beloved Titan for one more year before switching to a new airframe and OS55.

My Titan has taught me alot and still does, i have no complaints and look forward to maybe a Titan SE in a years time.

Thanks to everyones response and again to S Bell.
10-20-2009 08:22 PM
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Thunder Tiger Raptors 30-90 - Imperio > RAPTOR 50 Titan 50/ Titan 50 SE difference ?
 
 
Texmech
Senior Heliman
Location: Houston,TX

My Posts This: Topic  Forum
Call me pessimistic!

But, I new there was going to be a friggin 2 Cent part that was going to hold me up on the R50 - Titan SE upgrade.
Page 7 of the Titan SE manual shows the Washout assembly, item 2 Button head socket screw Now I know why this is a Button head instead of a cap head. The clearance here with the long Flight control rod from the swash to the mixing lever is very close with a button head and not at all clearing with a cap head!
SOOO all you R50 -SE upgraders out there search your parts bins for a M3X10 Button head screw before you make that order! I didn't have one, unfortunatly.

Good judgment comes from experience. Unfortunately, experience usually comes from bad judgment.
11-09-2009 10:19 PM
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Thunder Tiger Raptors 30-90 - Imperio > RAPTOR 50 Titan 50/ Titan 50 SE difference ?
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