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Power Helis . CANOMOD . Experience RC

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e-Electric Conversions > 700E Flight Times???
 
 
Dr.Ben
rrProfessor
Location: Richmond, VA, USA

My Posts This: Topic  Forum

I'd be interested to know how many mA's you put back in the packs after the described 7 min flight.

Ben Minor

Representing
MRC Hirobo Helicopters and Team Futaba for Radios
Morgan Fuels
OS Engines
10-27-2009 04:45 AM
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Larry
Senior Heliman
Location: SE Florida

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		whats everyones thought of using the hyperion vx 5500 packs?? they are 35C but will provide another 10% capacity over the 5000 packs....
10-27-2009 10:29 AM
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Taipan
Elite Veteran
Location: Sydney, Australia

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		5500mAh would be rather heavy but ok for sport flying not hard 3D.

My two 700E's get 4min with 4035-560 14T, 110HV 2000rpm gov mode, Radix 690's +-13 degs, Super Stubz 6.5 deg cyclic and usually put back around 2800mAh into Outrage XP25 12S 4200mAh lipos. Sometimes put back up to 3300mAh after doing big air 3D.

Speedie usually 35C, motor 55C and lipos 52C after flying at 25C ambient.

AUW is 5.05kg yet feels like it weighs nothing in the air . Too much power in fact. I'm waiting for Outrage NRG 30C 5000mAh packs for extra flight time, hopefully 5min.

Just hope the extra weight doesn't strip the main gear (never done so in over 300 flights with 4200's.)

Converting one of them to Vbar for even more flight time, 6min or so. If it feels too powerful still, will try 500kV motor for lower HS around 1900rpm. Maybe 7min this way.
10-27-2009 01:21 PM
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Taipan
Elite Veteran
Location: Sydney, Australia

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		Btw I met a guy who has the same set-up as mine except 500Kv motor on 17T and running fixed endpoints 100,90,100 curve. 1900rpm. 10 degs pitch I think and Zippy 12S 5000mAh. He gets 7min & yes it's flybarred. Dunno how that is possible as his heli seems to go just as hard as mine plus the numbers don't add up to his HS??
10-27-2009 01:25 PM
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MrMel
rrProfessor
Location: Lidingo, Sweden (GMT+1)

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		There is alot of difference between the -560 and -500 in terms of powerdraw.

That's why I like the -500 on the .90 sized.

1% extra efficency could be as much as 20% HIGHER powerdraw.
One big misconception is that efficency is something that makes your heli fly longer, its not, its about how much power can be pushed through the motor.

The motor with higher effiency will therefor actually draw more, IF your heli wants/needs it.


Watts out on the head, costs watts in, period, always.

Key is to find the motor that fits YOUR needs, if a less powerful motor does it for you, you can use it to gain flighttime.
That's why I use the Xera on my L700, simply dont need more power.

My site: http://heli.dacsa.net
10-27-2009 01:31 PM
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Band1086
Senior Heliman
Location: Kennewick, Wa. USA

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		So, do you think the Kon Pyro being 89% effi. would be more powerful than the 560 @ 85%. I started out running Actro 32-3's and I could never get more than about 4.5 mins out of 5000's a @ 2100 HS, and the motor had very good power, but not quite what I'm getting out of the 560's...but I've been wanting to try a Pyro 30-12. I like the big power, it's addicting, but I also like 6 min flights!
10-27-2009 03:17 PM
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MrMel
rrProfessor
Location: Lidingo, Sweden (GMT+1)

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		Nope, Ive tested the pyro too (and sold it).
There is differnt type of power, if you are going to categorize them, there is those that has good top end power(and run hot) like Neu & Scorpion.
Then there is motors that run colder, dont have the top end power like Kontronik (not only Pyro, but Tango was the same), Xera.

You can overgear to get performace out of the Xera and Pyro too, but then they dont run that cold anymore.

There is no free lunch.

Btw, a -560 has a peak effiency of 92.something%, so depending if your are in the correct powerband, things change.

My site: http://heli.dacsa.net
10-27-2009 03:20 PM
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Band1086
Senior Heliman
Location: Kennewick, Wa. USA

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		HS makes a difference too in consumption, 200 rpm on my 710's means about 1.25 mins less flight time even when the gearing is relative.
So your saying the Pyro has less power, gets less flight time, but runs cooler when geared properly?
10-27-2009 03:42 PM
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MrMel
rrProfessor
Location: Lidingo, Sweden (GMT+1)

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		No, Pyro: more flighttime, less top power, runs cooler.

You can actually calculate the difference in powerdraw between RPM, dont remember the exact math, but there is a formula.
(of course variations depending on voltage/amp, pitch used etc), but its fairly exact.

same for all blade sizes, XXXRPM more costs xx%.

My site: http://heli.dacsa.net
10-27-2009 03:46 PM
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Band1086
Senior Heliman
Location: Kennewick, Wa. USA

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		So you sold your Pyro because it wasn't powerful enough on the top?
I have had a Neu 1915 1.5Y 6mm on order for almost a month, but they claim 85% effi and only 1800W cont, 3600 surge, and 77V max 450KV.
Scorpion claims 4200W cont with the 560. Do you think I'll get more
time if I switch motors but less top end (according to manuf's numbers)?
10-27-2009 03:58 PM
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MrMel
rrProfessor
Location: Lidingo, Sweden (GMT+1)

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		Manufacturers tests are defined by the manufacturer themself, you cannot use them as comparsion except motors from same manufacturer.
There is no standard for testing...

My site: http://heli.dacsa.net
10-27-2009 03:59 PM
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Band1086
Senior Heliman
Location: Kennewick, Wa. USA

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		So do you think I'll get more time and less power from the Neu?
Also, everyone I've known that has a Neu of varying sizes say they always run cooler. than most others. It seems to me that the cooler the motor runs, the better for it and longer lasting.
10-27-2009 04:07 PM
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MrMel
rrProfessor
Location: Lidingo, Sweden (GMT+1)

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		None of the neu I had run cool, on the contrary, rather hot.

My site: http://heli.dacsa.net
10-27-2009 04:13 PM
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Band1086
Senior Heliman
Location: Kennewick, Wa. USA

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		How do they compare power wise and run time wise?
10-27-2009 04:19 PM
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MrMel
rrProfessor
Location: Lidingo, Sweden (GMT+1)

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		Havent tested them in the same heli, so I cant really say which one, but both are powerful with top power and shorter flighttimes if I put it like that.

It really takes back to back testing, in the same heli with EXACT same setup to test motors, human mind is VERY fast to adapting, I know I could have sworn one motor is more powerful then another, until I switched back then I realized how wrong I was.

That's why I only rely on logs and hard data now-a-days, as well as back to back testing, with switching back a few times (I actually have changed motor in the field when testing...)

My site: http://heli.dacsa.net
10-27-2009 04:23 PM
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Band1086
Senior Heliman
Location: Kennewick, Wa. USA

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		Why did you sell your Pyro... power?
10-27-2009 04:26 PM
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MrMel
rrProfessor
Location: Lidingo, Sweden (GMT+1)

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		Yup, plus the KV was too much off for using it in a .90 sized.

The kv issue should be corrected now.


There is two ways to measure kv, thats why some might be "off".
http://heli.dacsa.net/calculatorv2/MotorKV.aspx

My site: http://heli.dacsa.net
10-27-2009 04:30 PM
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Band1086
Senior Heliman
Location: Kennewick, Wa. USA

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		I noticed Kon claims about a ounce lighter than the Neu and 2 oz's lighter than the 560. Is this because of less copper fill? In pics
of it apart, the windings look like alot larger wire, but alot less of it...Also, would you post a link to your HS cal here? Thanks
10-27-2009 04:41 PM
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duke666
Veteran
Location: Hampshire, UK

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		http://heli.dacsa.net/calculatorv2/Default.aspx

OOOPPS............
10-27-2009 05:01 PM
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MrMel
rrProfessor
Location: Lidingo, Sweden (GMT+1)

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		Yep that's the link.

Motor size; yep, the kontronik is light, very different design, you dont want to change bearings in it , or rather, you wont find it off the shelf. (it has a huge bearing, size of the can, supporting the whole can)

I've done some testing to see if motor size affects bogging on our helis (theory of spinning mass), but in the end I think its more important to get a motor for the correct powerband and correct cell count then size of motor.

(I tested a coke-sized motor in my T700E)

My site: http://heli.dacsa.net
10-27-2009 05:07 PM
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e-Electric Conversions > 700E Flight Times???
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