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Gasser Model RC Helicopters > Finally maidened my gasser
 
 
pcinc
Senior Heliman
Location: Westfield, MA

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		I finally got to maiden one of my gassers last night. It's a MA 1005 with futaba servos and a 401 with a 9254. I using a 9303 and an AR7000 rx. I started off using Raja's suggested throttle curves. I went over the whole bird (picked this up used this past spring) and double checked the pitch with a gauge. I ended up with -5, 0, +9. It started right up and was vibrating pretty good on spool up. A quick look and I see the blades were out of track. A couple of up and downs adjusting the links a it and they were spot on in no time. I still had a pretty good vibration to it and remember reading about a motor running pretty rich will cause this. I started leaning out the high needle just a smidge at a time and this thing came alive. I got it running super smooth with tons of power on a climb out.The idle was a bit high and I couldn't get it to come all the way down to where it should be to shut off with the trim all the way down so I richened up the low needle a little bit. This brought the idle down nice and I was able to shut it down with the throttle trim all the way down. The bad thing is it developed a tail kick because it was running so rich. I leaned it out a bit again and it starts easy, runs like a top, has lots of power while running super smooth but I can't shut it down except by pinching the line off. All I can say is this bird rocks!!!! It's rock solid flying, smooth and a tank lasts for 20 minuets! Awesome bird! I have three 20 minuet flights on it between yesterday's maiden and today and it feels so comfortable it's like I've been flying it for a year. I haven't had a chance to tach the head yet to see what I have for a head speed but the motor sounds like it's in it's sweet spot.
Anybody have any ideas or suggestions on the low end not being able to shut it down? Even when I pinch the line off to shut it down, it runs for a bit before shutting down. To me, it seems like it's still rich on the low end but if I lean it more, I can't get the idle to come down right.I backed the idle stop screw way out to be sur eit's not interfering with the adjustments.
I think I'm going to have a lot of fun with this Heli.
Sorry to be so winded, just excited to get it in the air and can't get over how smooth it flys

Peter
10-07-2009 02:11 AM
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xcellgasman101
Elite Veteran
Location: WOODWARD, OKLA....

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		Congrats and Welcome to the wonderfull world of gassers....You might lengthen your throttle linkage, You will need to adjust your curves a little, but you will be able to kill your engine with the trim,, Hope this helps... XGM/VGM

John Crotts
www.soonerhelicamproductions.com
10-07-2009 02:26 AM
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broggyr
Key Veteran
Location: Naugy, CT

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		I just got a 1005 also - been working on it for a little while, and have had it hovering. So far, I love it "xcellgasnman101" has been invaluable with suggestions and tips.

- Brian
irony [ay-ruh-nee', ay-er-nee'] adj.: Like goldy or bronzy, except made of iron
10-07-2009 02:32 AM
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xcellgasman101
Elite Veteran
Location: WOODWARD, OKLA....

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		Thanks Brian,, Just tryin to help so others will enjoy flying gasser just as much as I do!!! XGM/VGM

John Crotts
www.soonerhelicamproductions.com
10-07-2009 02:35 AM
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broggyr
Key Veteran
Location: Naugy, CT

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		I have no doubt that we will be able to follow in your footsteps

- Brian
irony [ay-ruh-nee', ay-er-nee'] adj.: Like goldy or bronzy, except made of iron
10-07-2009 02:36 AM
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smallplanes
Key Veteran
Location: Timmonsville,S.C. ,USA

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		I wish my heli was that smooth and i had not trouble with mine i been tyring for near about a year an i'm still having trouble with mine but i will get it i know i will i will . I'm going to pull the motor and snd it to hanson. I 'm going to get hanson to balence it for me and soon as i get the money i'm going to get the best motor hanson has to offer. I will get mine flying good if i have to send it to Raja and let him tune it in for me. He flys JR so i will have to send him my radio and get it right. I want to do it myself so i know how to do it. Good luck on you heli.

Thanks
Ivan

Spectra G 26cc
Jewel
2 Evo 50's
3 Trex 450's
Trex 700
Raptor50
12Z
10-07-2009 03:18 AM
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pcinc
Senior Heliman
Location: Westfield, MA

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		xcell
I had to cut the travel back on the throttle linkage because it was binding on the low end at 100/100.Wouldn't lengthening the linkage make me have to cut the travel back even more?

Peter
10-07-2009 03:21 AM
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pcinc
Senior Heliman
Location: Westfield, MA

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		Oops! What I meant was I cut the travel back on the throttle servo, not the linkage.

Peter
10-07-2009 03:31 AM
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xcellgasman101
Elite Veteran
Location: WOODWARD, OKLA....

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		I always try to set the throttle ATV at 100 at each end, you will need to move the ball on the sevo arm closer to the center, keep moving it in till you can get 100 at both ends with out any binding, this is with the throttle trim set all the way down, this way you should be able to kill the engine with the throttle trim, and still get full throttle, Hope this helps,,

if you cant get the engine to die with the throttle trim all the way down, and the carb is closed, then you have a leak,, You will need to find it and fix it before you ruin the engine,, XGM/VGM

John Crotts
www.soonerhelicamproductions.com
10-07-2009 03:48 AM
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C.A.P.
Senior Heliman
Location: custer park IL.

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		check your gaskets on the carb & insulator, see if they are wet, if you are leaking air there the engine will run with the throttle closed, because it's getting air, and if you have to run richer to idle, that means you are getting air from some where, Wally
10-07-2009 05:44 AM
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pcinc
Senior Heliman
Location: Westfield, MA

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		Thanks for the insight on the leaking air. I'll have to remove the carb and check out the gaskets when I get home tonight. I'll also redo the linkage on the arm to get 100/100 on the travel.

Peter
10-07-2009 10:46 AM
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shawmcky
Key Veteran
Location: Isle of Wight,United Kingdom

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		One thing you could also check

When you have the carb off,that the big chrome idle speed screw has been removed to the parts bin and the throttle plate does not have a small half moon shape cut in the edge anywhere,the plate centre screw is fully tight and the plate closes properly in the bore.Some Zenoah carbs had a small cut out to promote idle and you do not need this type if indeed it is there.Worth a check as you got the heli secondhand.

Team- unbiased opinion,no experts here just trying to help thats all.K.I.S.S principle upheld here
10-07-2009 11:26 AM
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rbort
Elite Veteran
Location: Franklin, MA - U.S.A.

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		Kill

Your engine should quit BEFORE the carb is fully closed. If its fully closed and it still runs then the low end is too lean. Open up the low end some as it should die.

If in doubt just close the low end all the way from where it is now and tell us how many turns open it currently is.

Air leaks are not that common in general and only happen if you crack the stock insulator by gorilla tightening the mounting screws of it and/or the carb. Air leaks from the engine bearings/gaskets are even more rare.

-=>Raja.

1005 Gasser, G26 3DMax++, 2205+ flights
Spectra-g, G26 3DMax, 870+ flights
10-07-2009 05:08 PM
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C.A.P.
Senior Heliman
Location: custer park IL.

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		I disagree, air leaks are very common, and cause a motor to run hot (lean) on higher rpms,and more so on stock insulators, crack?, they are made of a heat resistant rubber compound, they warp,when you tighten the screws that tighten the carb to the insulator, the stock screws and washer are to small,(that tighten the insulator to the cylinder) and only cover the metal inserts in the insulator, so when you tighten the insulator down you push the inserts down to the cylinder gasket,not the insulator. Causing the insulator to move up causing an air leak, SO cracking is very unlikely, (not to say it cannot happen but never saw or heard of it) which can cause your motor not to stop, Z-RC gaskets also leak, not as bad as the stock gaskets, but do, and also should be checked to see if they are wet, this may not be the trouble here, but it is a something worth look at, As far as the engine running with the throttle closed because the engine is running to lean , should not happen!! And can not happen unless there is and air leak somewhere, If you take your carb off and suck on the throttle side of the carb with the throttle closed, you should not get air or almost no air, that could let the the engine run, call walbro, they will tell you the same. And air leak for head gaskets have been around since Zenoah, bearing leaks happens on every Zenoah engine new or old on the market except one and that is a plain fact, Wally
10-07-2009 08:49 PM
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Papa Sal
Senior Heliman
Location: Reno, Nevada- USA

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		I was reading a post by Chris Bergen a few weeks back. Does your throttle have a spring on it? If it does remove it,it might be keeping your servo from closing the throt. all the way. Hope this helps.

"AAAHHHOOOOHHH"!!!
10-07-2009 11:42 PM
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pcinc
Senior Heliman
Location: Westfield, MA

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		I got a chance to look at a few things tonight after work. First thing is it has an aluminum isolator block under the carb. The carb is a WA167A with a primer bulb on it. I checked the screws on the isolator block for being tight and all were good.I double checked the mounting screws to the carb and they were just snug not real tight. The screws had over sized washers under them preventing the choke plate from completely covering the carb opening.I Removed the larger washers and tightened up the screws. This allowed the choke to close completely now.I removed the idle stop screw completely and checked to make sure the butterfly closes completely.
I checked where the needle are and the low is at 1 1/8, with the high at 1 1/2. I reset them to low at 1 1/4 and the high at 1 1/4.
I started off the other day with the following throttle curves;
N
0-INH-20-22.5-25-INH-100
Id 1
100-INH-27.5-25-27.5-100
Id 2
100-INH-30-27.5-30-INH-100

After running it a bit and tweaking them just by the sound of the motor, I ended up with the following;
N
0-19-21-23.5-26-27.5-100
Id 1
100-INH-26.5-24-26.5-INH-100
Id 2
100-INH-30-27.5-30-INH-100

Idle 1 sounded like the motor was screaming so I didn't leave it there too long. Again, I didn't have anyone there that could tack the head for me so I have no idea of the head speed with these curves.

I got everything back together and fueled it up to test it out in the back yard before it got too dark. I gave the primer bulb 8 to 10 pumps and flipped the chock lever over then gave it a couple of quick pulls. Shut the chock off and with another pull it started right up.I had the throttle trim on the radio just below 1/2 and this was enough for a good idle without engaging the clutch. I spooled it up into a hover and the motor RPM sounded good. After landing, it came down to a nice smooth idle. Bringing the trim lever down to the bottom shut her down perfectly!!!!!. I started it back up and double checked it a couple more times and it shut down perfect every time! It looks like this part of the set up is corrected and now I just need to redo the distance of the ball on the servo arm to get back to 100/100 on the end points. With the high winds were experiencing and the tight area of the back yard, I wasn't able to try full climb outs to see/hear how the motor will react under power. Hopefully I'll be able to stop by the field on the way home tomorrow to check this out.
Thanks to all for all the tips and suggestions! I'm sure I'll have more as I continue with my new gasser venture.

Peter
10-08-2009 01:36 AM
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rbort
Elite Veteran
Location: Franklin, MA - U.S.A.

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		Man you're in MA!

I could write a book here but easier answer is bring it to the Heli Phenomenon this weekend and I'll take a look at it for you and set you straight.

-=>Raja.

1005 Gasser, G26 3DMax++, 2205+ flights
Spectra-g, G26 3DMax, 870+ flights
10-08-2009 01:56 AM
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xcellgasman101
Elite Veteran
Location: WOODWARD, OKLA....

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		Congrats... If it was me,,, I would put the H needle back to 1 1/2 to start,, you can always take it in if need'ed,, A good rule of thumb is,, Always start out rich, then change the needles, If your lean, and you fly, you might hurt the engine,, Just a thought,,

Yep you need a tach, to get the HS set,, Sounds like your well on your way to enjoying your heli... and have a pretty good head for setting the needles,,

Did you check to see if the washers were there to take up space, as to not bottom out the screws? Make sure there not bottoming out on the head, and not letting the carb get tight, but from the sound of your post, everything is rosie!!!! Again,, Congrats,, Job well done,,, XGM/VGM

John Crotts
www.soonerhelicamproductions.com
10-08-2009 02:03 AM
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pcinc
Senior Heliman
Location: Westfield, MA

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		Raja,
I was planning on heading out to the Phenominon this weekend but work changed that for me. I have a rebuild project going on and working all weekend.I went out last year and you and Mike looked at my first gasser for me. I never got it going. I ran into one thing after another with it and just put it off to the side. Since then I've picked up a Spektra G and 2 other 1005's besides this one. After watching you fly yours and the rising price of Nitro, I figure it's the way to go!

Peter
10-08-2009 03:06 AM
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pcinc
Senior Heliman
Location: Westfield, MA

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		xcell,
point taken. I moved it back out to 1 1/2. It was running well there. After sleeping on it and thinking about it, I'm not sure what I was thinking of turning the high in 1/4 turn when it was running well at 1 1/4 turns. The whole problem was the low needle and could not get it to shut off. I won't be able to check it for real util tomorrow and the weather isn't looking too good.

Thanks again for all the help everyone,
Peter
10-08-2009 12:09 PM
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Gasser Model RC Helicopters > Finally maidened my gasser
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