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Flybarless Rotor Head Systems > How many of you guys are using a flybarless head without stabilizer system?
 
 
STUPINEER
Senior Heliman
Location: allen tx

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I found this post. I did not think this was possible. Did he just luck out or are we spending way too much money?

http://runryder.com/helicopter/t524...?top=1254614835

gravity is king
10-04-2009 01:10 AM
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SpeedVision
Senior Heliman
Location: Grand Rapids, MI USA

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Quote 
I found this post. I did not think this was possible. Did he just luck out or are we spending way too much money?

Do you use a rate mode or heading hold gyro on your tail? Likely you'll answer HH. Think of elevator and axis gyro's as heading hold for your cyclic. This is the best analogy I can think of, at the moment.

If it wasn't worth the $$$, we wouldn't spend the $$$. Flybarless is definitely not anything new.

Flybarless - The future is now!!!
10-04-2009 02:11 AM
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STUPINEER
Senior Heliman
Location: allen tx

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yea, this guy did not use anything just a flybarless head and a tail gyro. that is it.

gravity is king
10-04-2009 02:43 AM
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v22chap
Veteran
Location: Howe, Indiana

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Not only am I NOT using an expensive gyro system ... I am using an almost 30 yr old flybarless head off of the old GMP legend system !!!! and it flys the way I want to fly just great (I don't do hard core 3- D ,, few flips and funnels and it handles them fine ) .

I think the secret is the head speed ...back then we could only spin the wood blades up to maybe 1250 RPM ,,but now that we have carbon ones that can do 2500 or more these heads work great .
I think that if you are not a hard core 3-D flyer .... you don't need any gyros ... with that said ,,it does make you pay more attention to flying as it will do exactly what you tell it to do once into FF ... none of this well should I or shouldn't I go this way .... and I think that is what the gyro units give you is a little more time to think inbetween moves just like a flybar does .
just my 2 cents




Larry C ----------Bergen R/C helicopters
10-04-2009 03:08 AM
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SpeedVision
Senior Heliman
Location: Grand Rapids, MI USA

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Quote 
Not only am I NOT using an expensive gyro system ... I am using an almost 30 yr old flybarless head off of the old GMP legend system !!!!

Haha. So let me ask you a logical question - How much would it cost me to buy a GMP head? I would dare to say more than a flybarless gyro...assuming I could get one.

Soooo, why are companies not duplicating the GMP concept today? I know, bit of a setup since Bergen is touting some barless, no electronic systems... Do tell.

Flybarless - The future is now!!!
10-04-2009 03:20 AM
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STUPINEER
Senior Heliman
Location: allen tx

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v22chap that is the bravest thing I have seen anyone do. I dont think I would of got it off the ground. Do you think that would work on my old raptor 90se? Probably not I am stil having trouble with my trex 500 with the sk360.
A+

gravity is king
10-04-2009 03:24 AM
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ErichF
Elite Veteran
Location: Odessa, FL 33556 (Tampa Area)

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I flew my Caliber 6 (50 size) a few times with just the Outrage head and no stab system. Tomorrow, I'm testing a GyroBot 700 system on the Caliber. I am doing a comparison of fly the two setups.

Here's a video of Chris Bergen flying an Intrepid Gasser FBL, also without an eStab system...

10-04-2009 04:04 AM
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steve9534
Key Veteran
Location: yakima, wa.

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GMP FBL head

The blade grips you're using are not the originals, but some cast aluminum bits from Hirobo I'd have to say that one would need to be brave to run them up to 2500 RPMs. Other than that, the FBL Legends flew OK. I made a FBL Xcell head around 1988 and flew a few flights with it. Generally the FBL helis of the day were a handful and the flybar equipped versions were a lot better. The better blades available today would help, but I don't know that it would be enough to make it worthwhile. steve.
10-04-2009 05:21 AM
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MrMel
rrProfessor
Location: Lidingo, Sweden (GMT+1)

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For 3D its not really good option to run without gyro, you get inhertied issues.

Sure, it will fly, but you can never overcome the issues.

http://www.rchelisite.com/flybarless_rc_helicopters.php

For scale flying where you got a very heavy bird, its a different story, that has been done a long time.

My site: http://heli.dacsa.net
10-04-2009 11:05 AM
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skint eastwood
Heliman
Location: uk

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I sometimes forget to turn my skookum unit on and effectively fly with no electronic help on a trex 450 500 and 600. It feels fine just like theres a strong wind around, but it certainly flys. personally i will stuck to some electronic help!
10-04-2009 11:29 AM
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Ben-T-Spindle
rrProfessor
Location: Central Illinois

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Has anyone tried using mixers to reduce the interaction problems during 3D?

... BTS
10-04-2009 01:11 PM
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jetblue2135
Veteran
Location: Atlanta, GA

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just flew my FBL trex 500 without a stab system and it is awesome! much quicker on the cyclic and the roll rate is incredible. It was a little touchy at first so I dialed in 25% expo and now am loving every bit of this...going to do the same to my T700 now. Ive flown with a stab unit before but after putting this setup through a few hard 3D flights I wont be buying a stab system any time soon.

Trex 700N, Trex 600NSP, Tres 500ESP
10-04-2009 01:12 PM
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MrMel
rrProfessor
Location: Lidingo, Sweden (GMT+1)

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Quote 
Has anyone tried using mixers to reduce the interaction problems during 3D?

Not possible since its the airspeed that affects.
Or rather, if you add some mixing for + pitch, it might fly better in FFF but not good in FF and absolutly not good in a punchout.
And if you fly backwards, your totally out of luck

My site: http://heli.dacsa.net
10-04-2009 01:19 PM
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v22chap
Veteran
Location: Howe, Indiana

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speedvision
I picked my GMP up on ebay for 100.00
But you don't have to get a GMP ,,as it is the same geometry as any of the modern day FB's - about 31 mm off center of the hub for the blade grips and centered on the main shaft .
And century ,vario and heliartist have been making flybarless no gyro heads for many yrs now .... just no one with a big name was paid to take up the ball and run with it until a few companies brought out FB gyro units.

Steve
These are the early original blade grips (attested to by Michael Gorham at IRCHA this yr ) ... later they did use thier own design of blade grip ...but it was still cast alum a bit longer and heavier by a little .

I also didn't say I was running my GMP head at 2500 ,, I said that blade technology now allows us to run FB heads around that rpm .

My FB GMP is run at 1650 and ya ,,one day it may disintegrate but it has served well for the last 1.5 yrs


And MrMel
I didn't any where in my post allude to the fact that it would replace gyro's for hard core 3-D guys and I did say it was a bit harder type head to fly in FF than the flybar or gyro assisted one .... but for us sport type flying guys ,,,, why spend the extra big bunch of money for something you don't really use ?????
And as far as the article on FB .. Like my Dad always said .."that paper lies still and ANYONE can print ANYTHING on it that they want ,,, don't believe it is gospel until you have tried it yourself ."

You will never know how well it works ,,, just reading articles about how it won't work and debating the facts ... you will need to not spend 500.00 and go out and try it .

This type of discussion and dare in the vintage section here on RR was what got me to try it as I was arguing that it could NOT fly worth a darn with another old timer there,,, as I do own a couple SK's for my rex 600 and 450 scale heads .
So I bought the GMP FB and tried it out to prove him wrong .... guess what I was the one proved wrong

Stupineer ... I believe that it would work for sport type flying on your 90 ,,but I have not flown anything that big on gyro less FB ...
put a sort of training stick on across the back skids ,.be carful and go for it .You will probably find it great as long as you are not wanting to do hard 3-D .

Larry C ----------Bergen R/C helicopters
10-04-2009 02:25 PM
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MrMel
rrProfessor
Location: Lidingo, Sweden (GMT+1)

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Quote 
And MrMel
I didn't any where in my post allude to the fact that it would replace gyro's for hard core 3-D guys and I did say it was a bit harder type head to fly in FF than the flybar or gyro assisted one .... but for us sport type flying guys ,,,, why spend the extra big bunch of money for something you don't really use ?????
And as far as the article on FB .. Like my Dad always said .."that paper lies still and ANYONE can print ANYTHING on it that they want ,,, don't believe it is gospel until you have tried it yourself ."

You will never know how well it works ,,, just reading articles about how it won't work and debating the facts ... you will need to not spend 500.00 and go out and try it .

This type of discussion and dare in the vintage section here on RR was what got me to try it as I was arguing that it could NOT fly worth a darn with another old timer there,,, as I do own a couple SK's for my rex 600 and 450 scale heads .
So I bought the GMP FB and tried it out to prove him wrong .... guess what I was the one proved wrong


My answer was to the Topic starter.
I have tried it, first thing I did before first VBar was released, when FBL was totally "new" for non-scale flyers.

My site: http://heli.dacsa.net
10-04-2009 02:36 PM
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heli-cuzz
Key Veteran
Location: Pittston, Pa. USA

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Quote 
I found this post. I did not think this was possible. Did he just luck out or are we spending way too much money?

http://runryder.com/helicopter/t524...?top=1254614835



10-05-2009 12:52 AM
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ErichF
Elite Veteran
Location: Odessa, FL 33556 (Tampa Area)

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It's all good
10-05-2009 01:23 AM
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RotorTech321
Heliman
Location: Scranton, PA. USA

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I have been watching Heli-Cuzz fly his caliber with a flybarless head with no electronics except for his gyro for a long time.
Does he do light 3D work with it, no, he does heavy 3D with it and makes it look easy.
Like said above, GMP legends were equiped with flybarless heads and a lot of guys did fine with them with just a gyro and remember, the gyros used were the 153 BB, nothing like todays.
I have not seen ANYONE try it without electronics until Cuzz, not at any field or any web sites.
Gratz Cuzz on a job well done!!
10-05-2009 01:34 AM
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OICU812
rrProfessor
Location: Grande Prairie, Alberta, Canada

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LOL u guys rock on with a non stabalized system, I don't feel you "truly" know the pleasures you are missing. All imho, be well!

...Once upon a time there were Nitros, flybars and frequency pins...
10-05-2009 07:27 AM
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jetblue2135
Veteran
Location: Atlanta, GA

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Heli-cuzz-
put 10 flights on the T500 this morning without the stab and LOVE it, its flying great! Putting the FBL head on my T700 and am looking forward to flying that thing! Ill post a video when I can...Wont be buying any more stabilization units

Trex 700N, Trex 600NSP, Tres 500ESP
10-05-2009 06:53 PM
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Flybarless Rotor Head Systems > How many of you guys are using a flybarless head without stabilizer system?
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