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E-flite . Fast Lad Performance . Ace Hobby

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Main Discussion > nitro in the next 5-7 years??
 
 
turboomni
Elite Veteran
Location: 63 Rambler Down By The Dumpster

My Posts This: Topic  Forum
gassers

Quote 
10 flights on a 50 is a gallon, that's 8 lbs...

This will cost you between 20 and 30+ bucks for 10,, 6 to 10 minute flights. My gasser will fly up to 20 minutes on 16 oz of gas at 2.50 a gallon.
I know guys with bigger tanks that can go 40 minutes.

[/quote]..lipo can be delivered to your door by airmail from China.[quote]

My gas station is around the corner. I can get carb parts at my lawn mower store. I have an onboard generator and never have to charge anything except my TX which goes for 7 to 8 hours on a charge. I fill up and fly as many times as I want all day long.
I bring no charger, car battery,glow driver or starter or paper towels or sprayon goop to clean it. Gas motors dont wear out like the nitro motors do. You can fly them for years without worry of bearings rust and such. I believe the money saved on nitro more than offsets the slightly higher intitial price of a gasser vs a 90 nitro. If you dont crash often the savings are huge.

Setup is everything, All my heli's can fly better than I can pilot them
11-06-2009 05:15 PM
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flyboy907
Veteran
Location: woodstock, ga

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Quote 
..200 flights on a battery is 2 lbs...
your dreaming if you think you can beat on a lipo hard 3d and get 200 cycles!
I am researching to do a 700e project in the future and have yet to see anyone getting that.

Team Magnum Fuels
11-06-2009 05:21 PM
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freakyreef
Veteran
Location: Kansas\Colorado border

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However, look at the price vs performance. Nitro is higher than gas obviously, but at this time, a gasser doesn't compare with a nitro performance wise. Hopefully gassers performance will advance in the next 5-7 years.

Walk on water long enough, eventually you will get your feet wet.
11-06-2009 05:21 PM
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4 stroke flyer
Senior Heliman
Location: Dowagiac,MI

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[quote]
Hopefully gassers performance will advance in the next 5-7 years.

Until someone comes up with a dedicated gasser motor that gets rid of alot of vibration, i don't see them being very popular. I have spent the better part of this year fighting a gasser with vibration. I finally put a Os91 in it and all my problems went away. Now I am flying and enjoying it, the way I wanted to do in the first place.
11-06-2009 07:34 PM
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sonnyhad
Key Veteran
Location: Holland,Mi

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I don't use oil in my nitro! I use synthetic oil, home grown! Corn for the methane and who knows where the nitro is made or from what. I don't. I have a 600 electric and have lost two batteries this year! Ouch!! thats a whole lot of Nitro, plus it would buy another kit!

I hate gravity!!
Make it a great day!
11-06-2009 10:11 PM
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turboomni
Elite Veteran
Location: 63 Rambler Down By The Dumpster

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Quote 
Until someone comes up with a dedicated gasser motor that gets rid of alot of vibration, i don't see them being very popular. I have spent the better part of this year fighting a gasser with vibration.

You really should send a gasser motor to an oufit that balances and trues the crank plus port work especially if it is a 26cc. Its smoother and has a good deal more power.
A gas motor does not vibrate when setup correctly and can shear bolts and shake the heli apart when not setup correctly. Gassers are becoming popular.
Tuning is different than a nitro thats for sure.

Of course the power of a gasser cant compete to a 90 nitro. I would say its like a 90 sized ship with a 70 nitro in it. It is not for everyone,,BUT I dont know how many times I've seen guys with the latest greatest 90 nitro with the best motor and servos + 30% nitro running great head speeds only to do stuff a Raptor 30 could do with some collective management. They are doing things that do Not require 5000 HP and hovering around at high headspeed or just getting a kick out of working the collective stick up and down to scare themselves with their super duper servos. You know who you are!!!!What a waste of fuel and money. Of course in capable hands all that power can be put to good use but for many nowhere close.
With lipos getting better and better guys seem to get a more and more powerful motors for their new Lipo's and although you get more power obviously your run times will never get longer maybe shorter.
I guess its the craving for as much power as possible that is driving the heli market.

What ever happened to the term Collective Management anyways???
You dont see it mentioned much anymore.
Just some random thoughts

Setup is everything, All my heli's can fly better than I can pilot them
11-06-2009 10:15 PM
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sonnyhad
Key Veteran
Location: Holland,Mi

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They are making kits for 90 sized electrics. What do you think the electronics for that bad boy would cost! It hurts just to think about it!
I do agree with others here that Gassers will improve in the near future and if someone got the kinks out of a gas motor, they would really have a wide open market. Everyone likes the idea of a cheaper to run engine but don't wanna give up on the performance. I see quite a few guys around here with Bergen's and they seem to be able to fly alright, its just a matter of time before they get the performance out of them. Align is working on one, Century has the new one, who's next?
Now if they can just make them smell like Nitro!!!!

I hate gravity!!
Make it a great day!
11-06-2009 10:19 PM
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sonnyhad
Key Veteran
Location: Holland,Mi

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nitro in the next 5-7 years.

Dammit Turboomni! you were spying on me again!!
I was flying like that only because I didn't know any better. Still a new guy! LOL!!!

I hate gravity!!
Make it a great day!
11-06-2009 10:23 PM
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turboomni
Elite Veteran
Location: 63 Rambler Down By The Dumpster

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Quote 
Dammit Turboomni! you were spying on me again!!
I was flying like that only because I didn't know any better. Still a new guy! LOL!!!


Was that YOU?? Lol

Setup is everything, All my heli's can fly better than I can pilot them
11-06-2009 10:26 PM
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bkervaski
Elite Veteran
Location: Birmingham, AL, USA

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Quote 
if someone got the kinks out of a gas motor

Gasoline is the problem with gas engines and unfortunately can never hope to produce the power that nitromethane does.

The gasoline would have to be some special blend with some kind of high power additive and right back to square one, $20-$30 per gallon.
11-06-2009 11:24 PM
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twguns
Veteran
Location: Indianapolis, IN

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Quote 
My 2 cents, Corn is getting cheaper! Cheap corn = cheaper Nitro! Look at what it was in 2008 vs 2009! Its in the corn man!!!


Don't know where you get your info Sonnyhad, but Nitromethane nor methanol commanly used in our model fuels are derived from corn.

Ethanol, derived from corn (or sugar and some other "plants" does not generate as much power as methanol and burns "dirtier" than methanol.


Tim
11-06-2009 11:31 PM
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KC
Elite Veteran
Location: WA

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something was lost in translation about oil

...put it this way, unless everything you buy is moved by electric trains or sailboats, then everything you buy has oil 'in' it....oil is either factored into the cost of producing what you want or shipping what you want.

"oil is oil", who doesnt get that means "gas" "diesel" "natural gas"....etc etc.

Unless you're a total idiot, you might see that whoever has the control over energy, pretty much gets to do whatever they feel like.....which includes squashing unprofitable energy rivals like renewable and independent energy through buying a few votes.

And when the alternatives become popular, these same players just slide over to the new thing....thats how things work.

Anyways 200 flights is a realistic number for a well maintained lipo...besides not everyone does 3d!

And if you go and beat the **** out of your nitro, it not only consumes a lot of fuel but will also need parts about that often....been there done that.

Lets look at this the way a 'business man' would....say a guy who makes a living from rc helicopters, we'll call him 'Bubba' because everyone thinks he's a fool....

"Cletus we want 200 flights out of this bastard...what's it gonna cost?"

"Hmmm Bubba, the way I figure is we can call ---- and get one of them 35C batteries for 200.00, pay the 25.00 shipping......or we could spend 250.00 for 10 gallons if its only 25.00 today and they deliver it without all the ORMD 'yous a terrorist' bull**** they gave us the last time."

Lets inject some more reality into a future that is so easy to predict you do not need any crystal ball to predict with about 80% accuracy....

so you pay 20-30 dollars today for nitro...yay! what about tomorrow?

in 5-7 years it is about as certain as the sun rising in the west and setting in the east that the Federal Reserve aka 'govt' will inject more fake money into the money supply and not one in a million people will care or understand what that does, but they will laugh at the people who do and protect the ****s who rob them blind through making your money worth less.

This money doesnt fall over the country from helicopters evenly...it goes to the first at the trough, then they spend it in fashionable investments with the expectation of high return.

in 2000 it was technology, in 2005 it was housing, in 2010 it will be energy

How the **** do I know that?....just listen to whatever is coming out of the collective's mouths.

Each time this 'injection' of new money occurs, more money is now chasing the same amount of goods and services until production catches up and everyone thinks they're 'rich'.....sure more stuff is made, more jobs are created, but then reality comes along and corrects for the boom after the new money reaches the last in line....you and me.

So what does the government do instead of stepping aside and allowing risk takers to fail like men in a free society?....every time this happens they give the junkies more heroine....bailouts.

When you are paying 50 dollars per gallon for nitro and 6 dollars a gallon for pump gas and MORE FOR EVERYTHING you want, need, or gotta have....remember this nonsense some guy in a helicopter forum told you.

It will prevent you from eating cat food in your retirement atleast.

And if you still think this is bull****, then lets do some simpler math....what's the difference between shipping a 2 lb item and an 80 lb item?

duh.....lipos will be cheaper and better in the future, thats where the money will flow....this isnt hope, this is the future unless an asteroid hits the planet or we get invaded by space monsters!
11-07-2009 01:01 AM
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flyboy907
Veteran
Location: woodstock, ga

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I think someone must have a love affair with their lipo's

You sure go thru alot of trouble to get your fuel lol. while I am still paying 1.25 over cost for my wildcat I will continue to beat my 700 up, nothing has broke yet 6+cases and going
Don't get me wrong I think big electric is really cool, and hoping that will be my winter project!

Team Magnum Fuels
11-07-2009 01:06 AM
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Blade_Master1
Elite Veteran
Location: Canada

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The more people that fly electric the more fuel I will have it's a win win for me

demand and price go hand in hand

please buy electric
11-07-2009 01:28 AM
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Aaron29
Elite Veteran
Location: Bossier City, LA

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http://www.newscientist.com/article...the-future.html

There are many articles like the one above about the future of biodiesels and methanol production.

I don't think GLOW engines are going anywhere. We may see lower contents of Nitro in the mixture, like below 10%, if nitro prices get too high.

But the little glow engine will survive. You can run Webra's and other glow engines that are designed for low nitro on FAI Fuel, or ZERO percent nitro.

And at like 3 bucks a gallon for pure methanol, plus a little castor oil, glow engines can be operated well below electric prices. It's just that most of us are convinced we need the nitro.

In reality, we can probably be getting by with LARGER engines that run on LOWER nitro.

That's probably the future, IMO. Larger glow engines designed to run on pure methanol/oil mixtures, or at least LOW nitro content mixtures.

-Aaron
11-07-2009 02:26 AM
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rcjon
Senior Heliman
Location: Macon, GA

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More lipos for you = more nitro for me.

It's like a metaphor.
11-07-2009 02:52 AM
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30636086
Key Veteran
Location: Tacoma, WA

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I dont suffer from mental iIlness, I actually enjoy mine!
11-07-2009 03:14 AM
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turboomni
Elite Veteran
Location: 63 Rambler Down By The Dumpster

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Will all you guys drive less so gas prices go down for my heli??

Setup is everything, All my heli's can fly better than I can pilot them
11-07-2009 03:17 AM
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freakyreef
Veteran
Location: Kansas\Colorado border

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LOL.
For me, I won't switch to electric till lipo prices come down.
For a small heli, it's fine, but a large heli...Ouch
Yes, we could go into the cost per flight of electric vs nitro, but thats been done before.
I like to be able to fly land fuel, fly land fuel.... etc without having to outlay $400-$600 in lipos to keep me in the air. Yes, I admit chargers and lipos are getting better with regards to higher charge rates and will only continue to get better and cheaper. BUT, until that time comes, I'll stick with nitro for now and perhaps add electrics down the road. I don't see me giving nitro up until it's outlawed.( We would need to move to the politics area of the forum to discuss that)

Walk on water long enough, eventually you will get your feet wet.
11-07-2009 03:56 AM
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Big Fil
Veteran
Location: Santa Rosa

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I hear the comment "when lipo prices come down" fairly regularly on the boards and at the field. It often makes me wonder how low they will need to go down. Let's use 6S 5000, since that's the first size that'll realistically, although not optimally, get you into a 50 size bird. Let's admit it that's the size most of us want to be flying anyway, or larger right? When I got my first large electric 2.5 yrs ago any pack in that size was going to set you back $300. Shoot you were thrilled if you found one on sale for $279. Fast forward to today and you can now get that size pack for as low as $60-80. That's less than a set of blades.

Anyway it just makes me wonder if people are just saying that as "yeah when pigs fly" type statement.

Mikado
Edge Blades
11-07-2009 04:30 AM
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