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e-Electric Conversions > Need advice with converting 2- X-Cell 60's at different weights
 
 
89X-CELL60
Heliman
Location: Denver, Colorado

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		Hello,

I have an '89 X-cell 60 in an "Airwolf" Blackshark fuse and a '94 X-cell 60 that is in an EMS Bell 230 fuse. The Bell 230 has 680 blades with an all up glow weight of 14 lbs. The Blackshark has 660s and is maybe 11 lbs at the most.

I was going to do the conversion without the clutch like the 212/412 conversion done recently. But then I thought, maybe I should keep the clutch and make the 9 to 1 gear ratio work. I wanted a target head speed of 1600 to 1700.

I was going to get the Century 565 Kv motor, and use 2- 20c Zippy Lipo 5s 5000 to make a 10S battery, and GRotor just sold me a Jazz 55 10 42 ESC.

By my calculations 565Kv x 33.65Volts / 9 * 90% gives a headspeed of 1901.

Then I used the HS calculator on ReadyHeli, but at 85% the head speed seemed high at over 2000 RPMs. But are these numbers at an unloaded state? Will it come down to my target headspeed with pitch? What will the weight of the 230 do to my calculations? Need different Kv Motor? 500Kv maybe?

Because of my Logo 10 I have killed 3 good OS61 SX engines in these helis, and it was not abuse, was because of a lack of use.

Any help would be greatly appreciated, I just don't want to waste money on getting the wrong stuff.

Thanks,
David
10-02-2009 10:50 PM
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Dr.Ben
rrProfessor
Location: Richmond, VA, USA

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		David,

Think more along the lines of 400 to 450/480kv kV. Both Neu and X-era cam supply motors in this kV range. Use a 95t maingear to yield 9.5:1.

Your target headspeed at 85% esc will be just a hair over 1600 rpm with a 450 kV motor on 10S.

Your runtimes and current demands will likely be better if you run 12S. A 400 kV motor on 9.5:1 will yield rpms in the mid 1600's at 75%esc, still OK.

The thing you have to understand about electrics is that they don't load down in the same sense as a glow engine. As you add more pitch to lift the heavier model, the motor will just draw more current to crank out the power. Since you'll have virtually twice the hp that you've had before, you should be fine. As always, watch the temps of the motor, esc, and battery the first few flights and DATALOG the flights to make sure you're comfortably within the specs of the power system.

Ben Minor

Representing
MRC Hirobo Helicopters and Team Futaba for Radios
Morgan Fuels
OS Engines
10-02-2009 11:43 PM
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89X-CELL60
Heliman
Location: Denver, Colorado

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		Hello Dr Ben,

I just got the Jazz ESC that will only go to 10S. I can get a 94 tooth main gear, I will have to see if MA has a 95 tooth. Will going to a 9T pinion for a 10 to 1 ratio a bad idea?

Thanks,
David
10-03-2009 12:55 AM
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Dr.Ben
rrProfessor
Location: Richmond, VA, USA

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		MA definitely makes a 95 t main. You may have to upgrade to the newer auto hub to fit it. They also made a black 95 t like your 94 t, but they are as scarce as hen's teeth. A post might find you one.

A 9 t pinion would be nice for 10:1. The challenge for you as it was for me is finding a QUALITY 9 t pinion. Century's iteration typically finds its hole NOT in the center of the gear, so check carefully before you buy are get disappointed. Your choices for such pinions are better for 5mm motor shafts than for 6mm shafts.

Ben

Representing
MRC Hirobo Helicopters and Team Futaba for Radios
Morgan Fuels
OS Engines
10-03-2009 01:13 AM
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89X-CELL60
Heliman
Location: Denver, Colorado

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		Still working on this

I'm looking at the Rimfire 450kv motor. I was going to use my X-Cell 46 9 tooth pinion for a 10 to 1 gear ratio. But a PM with Pat L whom did the Bell 412 conversion stated that his main gear is doing fine after 15 flights without the clutch setup. I would like to keep things simple/light without going to the clutch setup.

Now as Dr. Ben stated I need to find a motor that has a 5mm shaft to find a 9 tooth pinion that is better quality then Century's 6mm 9t pinion.

Anyone know what motor options I have with a 5mm shaft and in the 450Kv range.

One more question. What numbers are closer to actual headspeed, Mr Mel's headspeed calcutator or the Volts times Kv divided by gear ratio times .9 (or .85)????

Thanks for stickin with me on this,
David
10-29-2009 07:09 PM
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Dr.Ben
rrProfessor
Location: Richmond, VA, USA

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		David,

Neu 1915H 1.5Y 450 kV 5mm shaft in stock at Esprit models.

"heliheadcase" has some firsthand experience with the Rimfire.

BTW, I re-searched RCMarket. They do have a 9t 6mm ID pinion. Be careful with any 9 t pinion with this much power, thought, because you're effectively transferring 5+hp to the rotorhead across 2 or 3 teeth at a time at the interface of the pinion and maingear. You'll probably be OK with a scale application.

Ben

Representing
MRC Hirobo Helicopters and Team Futaba for Radios
Morgan Fuels
OS Engines
10-30-2009 03:45 AM
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89X-CELL60
Heliman
Location: Denver, Colorado

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		Thanks Dr Ben,

I will look into the Neu 1915H. I was going to get a Scorpion 8mm shaft with the 5mm end to fit into the RimFire, but I don't want a Frankinstien's monster on my hands either.

This will be a slow process, but I will keep everyone up to date as I go along.

Thanks again,
David
10-30-2009 04:18 PM
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89X-CELL60
Heliman
Location: Denver, Colorado

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		Update,

Got the RimFire 1.20 50-65-450, Scorpion 8mm shaft with the 6mm end. Scorpion also had a 10T pinion that I bought along with their 6mm prop adapter.

Wondering if anyone has tried to use a prop adapter to work with a fan hub and clutch?

BTW, the prop adapter is the compression type, do not know if it will take the torque of the motor or not.

David
11-05-2009 09:53 PM
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89X-CELL60
Heliman
Location: Denver, Colorado

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		Happy Friday the 13th

Well I swapped the original 8mm shaft for the Scorpion 8mm shaft with the 6mm end.

My biggest problem now is weather to go with the clutch setup, which may not work with the prop adapter I got. Or go with the simple 10t to main gear setup. I think for the first one I will go without the clutch, and then for the Bell 230 I will go with the clutch.

To be continued

David
11-13-2009 04:31 PM
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e-Electric Conversions > Need advice with converting 2- X-Cell 60's at different weights
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