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Autography FlightPower . Advantage Hobby . Revolution Models

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Aerial Photography and Video > Pano Controller -- Shooting panorama? Tired of the tangled wires? See this.
 
 
daytonabeach
Elite Veteran
Location: Oslo, Norway

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Another good thing is that since it only spins 2 rounds you (at least us with the vr360) can simply put the wires you need inside the hollow shaft without making any special independent spinning device for connection between the mount and the heli, cause most wires will easily allow 2 turns without any damage as long it is the same way back and forth, you can also compensate for one turn by twisting it in advance when installing your equipm

Never argue with an idiot, he'll drag you down to his level and beat you with experience...
10-16-2009 03:39 PM
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wjw
Veteran
Location: Cape Coral, Florida usa

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My 2 cents
If this switch was available when I first purchased my VR360, I would have considered it a valued asset to the mount. I did infact run my servo extensions through the main shaft and had a tangled mess the first time I used it.
I since reconfigured the mount with a second Rx and battery pack which is working fantastic. If I was using this with a electric ship I would go for the switch to save weight. With my gasser lifting the VR360 the extra weight is not a issue.
As for DJ and Photoshipone, DJ has one of the most inovative minds in our field. His products are solid and not overstated. Over the years I have purchased helicopters, cameras and mounts from him with complete satisfaction.
10-16-2009 03:45 PM
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PhotoShip One
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Location: Arizona & Taiwan

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I received the CAD drawing from PistaJ for the switch ramp and plan to cut one from Delrin this weekend and begin to devise a method of mounting the unit and switches to a VR360.

Also, just for the heck of it I've ordered up some magnetic switches and will experiment with that method as well. The VR360 is carbon and aluminum thus not magnetic with the exception of some small hardware parts and the pan shaft. The magnetic switches I sourced have a .200" working distance so I should be able to come up with something that works.

Design Team - PhotoShipOne
10-21-2009 06:51 PM
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daytonabeach
Elite Veteran
Location: Oslo, Norway

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Cool!

Never argue with an idiot, he'll drag you down to his level and beat you with experience...
10-21-2009 08:45 PM
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snurre
Heliman
Location: Sweden, Stockholm

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added functionality

Hi fellows,

Before this thread was started I was thinking of designing a simple pano controller, but for other reasons than the wire tangle issue.
Now since I see you are already on to something similar, I will present my idea to see what you guys think, and if PistaJ think it could be included in his project.

Background
I have done some limited attempts with pano production, however, not the fisheye spherical, but rather using 12 - 35 mm focal length.
Shooting this in portrait orientation and stitching provides a hight definition pano that can be used for various purposes, like poster size panorama print or zoomable high definition area photos. To do a 360 I used like 14 overlapping (portrait) images. From the stitched image one can extract selected parts and use just like a oblique shot.
I am using a Nikon D300 with zoom lens 16-85 or 12-24mm.

Experience/problem
Motion blur became an issue when shooting during camera pano rotation movement. The photos was still usable, but not perfect due to the blur. During really good light conditions shutter time may be short enough to reduce the problem, but I would like to be able to do these shootings also in same not-so-bright light conditions that works fine for normal oblique stills (I live in Scandinavia, and autumn / winter comes with many scenes with less light)
Yes, tweak the ISO, aperture, rotational speed... - I know, but it´s not enough, the equation does not compute!
Example: ISO 320, f3,8, 22mm, 1 photo per second during 15 seconds of pano rotation provides one serie covering (slightly more than) 360 degrees. This gave me photos with sharp horizontal details, but blurred verticals.
15 seconds is already quite a long time for keeping the helicopter in a stable lateral and vertical position (at least during some conditions), so the first and last photo in the serie will fit together. (Yes I know, GPS and altitude lock will make position lock better but still...). Point being that slowing down speed of continous movement is not an option.

Solution / idea
Syncronize pano sector movement with the camera shutter. So, when the camera shoots the pano movement is off. Then pano movement starts and run for a selected (adjustable) time, stops, and next shot is triggered. And so on until desired sweep is completed. Since the camera does not move during each shot, images get sharp. Between the shots, maximum usable speed pano movement could be used to minimize total shooting time for one pano serie.

Syncro tech solution
Use cameras flash syncronization (X-sync?) port (present at most DSLR cameras) as a guid signal for pano servo control. Measure time between first two shots in pano sequence and then use for servo syncro control.
The servo control would benefit from soft starts and stops, meaning that the servo controller uses short ramp up and ramp down of servo speed.

So, I hope this posting was not too confusing.

It might not be a must-have thing, but I would certainly find it very useful. And with the project you already begun, this functionality might not be too difficult to achieve. (?)

So, whattaya think of this idea?
10-22-2009 11:20 PM
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phil007
Senior Heliman
Location: Austin, Texas

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PistaJ - Great work on your Pano Controller. I made one for myself and know the work you did to get the product consumer friendly. Anyone uses it to shoot aerial panos will love it.


snurre - Get the 10.5mm fisheye, increase the ISO to get a 1/2000 shutter speed and the images should be sharp using a 2-4 second rotation. You'll never get a multi row aerial pano to stitch without gps hold and even then it will be every difficult. Prints at a size of 12"x24" (30cm x 60cm) look great. I haven't tried printing them any larger but your D300 should do 2x that size depending on your Photoshop skills.

Phil
10-23-2009 03:44 AM
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daytonabeach
Elite Veteran
Location: Oslo, Norway

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Great idea snurre, but i agree with phil to a certain point, raising the iso will require a good camera, and as you may know im now using my old 5d always at 800 iso to get proper DOP and sharper images, BUT, if you get the new 5d, you can crank up the iso to new heights, maybe as far as 3200 without destroying the pic quality and still be able to shoot with 1/1250 shutter speeds, also with the new 5d i think yo u can go even higher on the iso without problems...

Do a ground test in the afternoon and see how fast you can get the shutter at highest available iso, but a device like you describe will help improving the quality even more...

Perhaps a software that allows you to program each "stop" points, like a "rotation wheel" you can spin to set the start-end points of each sequence, it will only take a good software developer to do it

Btw Snurre, the gps is in the customs now

Never argue with an idiot, he'll drag you down to his level and beat you with experience...
10-23-2009 08:19 AM
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PistaJ
Heliman
Location: Prague

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Hi guys
I am sending the first peaces of Pano Controllers on Monday.
Right now I am having a holyday in a spa region. I have had plenty of time to test the unit. I am sending in 5panos linked together. I did these during one day. It took me about 6 hours of stitching) One of them without any work at all !!! . (There are some things I could do better). Well all of them were sold within 5 minutes after the spa manager saw them.
The unit allows me to concentrate on hovering much more than before. Do not get me wrong. I could make these without it as well, but it is much easier when the Pano Controller is on board.

http://www.letfoto.kvalitne.cz/raje...4400_rajky.html

Manual:
http://www.leteckafotografie.com/fi...ller_manual.pdf
10-24-2009 07:13 PM
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Wenlock
Senior Heliman
Location: Shropshire, England

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PistaJ - This is a great idea, a nice simple add-on to make life a little easier. I use a PS1 VR360 with a second rx on the mount, so I don't have any wires connecting the mount to the heli. But I still like the idea of having the mount turn through exactly 1 or 2 revolutions when I flip the shutter switch, it would allow me to concentrate more on my flying while the mount and camera do their thing.

Can I make a suggestion for another option to add to the firmware? How about an option to make the mount always turn in the same direction? As I said, I don't have the wiring issue, and I'd prefer to always have the mount turn the same way.

Q: Why do you specify that the shutter must be activated with a servo? I use a GentLED, it operates using the same signals as a servo, do you think I could use that with your device?
10-25-2009 06:01 PM
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PhotoShip One
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Location: Arizona & Taiwan

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Quote 
I am sending in 5panos linked together.

Nice work! that one above the town is very high!

Quote 
Why do you specify that the shutter must be activated with a servo? I use a GentLED, it operates using the same signals as a servo, do you think I could use that with your device?

It would seem that an e-switch or GentLED would work as they receive pulses just as a servo does.

Design Team - PhotoShipOne
10-25-2009 06:17 PM
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PistaJ
Heliman
Location: Prague

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Wenlock, if your shutter system uses servo signal, it should work without any problem.
Changing the software regarding the revolutions should not be a problem too.
If there are others asking for it we will do it in our next version. (I do not think there would be anybody). If you still want it so badly that you do not want to wait until then, would you pay a little more for the custom programming work? It should not be more than 1 third of its price.

DJ you are right I was quite high. By the way how high would you guys dare to go? The other day I went as high as 470 meters. But without the mount. The Predator looked like a dot in the sky.
10-25-2009 07:59 PM
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PhotoShip One
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Location: Arizona & Taiwan

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Quote 
how high would you guys dare to go?

For me, if a pano needs to be shot from over 300' above ground level I prefer to shoot from a full scale helicopter. Although I live in a densely populated area so flying over 300' becomes very risky as the higher I go the larger the cone of danger becomes.

This brings up another point.... your device would help greatly if attached to my full scale helicopter pano shooting rig. I may have to try that as well.

Here's an interesting pano that I'd have liked to try the pano controller

http://azchoppercam.com/pano_ffz.shtm

Design Team - PhotoShipOne
10-25-2009 08:23 PM
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PistaJ
Heliman
Location: Prague

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That is very nice. I am a pilot myself. I fly planes only. No helicopter license. Would like to try pano from a flown plane. I do not know how good it would be. The slowest I could go would be abut 70km per hour. By the way what software is used to put objects right bellow or up in the panorama. I have a little trouble correcting mistakes that develop right beneath the camera 90 degrees down.
10-25-2009 08:58 PM
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PhotoShip One
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Location: Arizona & Taiwan

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Quote 
Would like to try pano from a flown plane.

I plan to try this in the coming weeks. I've got a mount that attaches to the strut of my Taylorcraft. I suspect that at high enough altitude and slow speed (about 45mph) I can get them to stitch properly.

Quote 
what software is used to put objects right bellow or up in the panorama

Pano2VR is what I use. It allows you to export a cube face from any direction (called a "patch" and then edit in Photoshop. It then will import the corrected patch.

Design Team - PhotoShipOne
10-25-2009 09:12 PM
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PistaJ
Heliman
Location: Prague

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It has been a little quiet here.
We are working on the magnets upgrade. It is not as easy as we thought. It will be a little while till we test it. Meantime have a look at our other project. I do not want to steel my own thread getting in to UAVs and so on. Take it just as some fun to watch.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x3O8tyYdbMk
11-04-2009 09:45 AM
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PistaJ
Heliman
Location: Prague

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Hallo guys.
Watch the magnets working with the Pano Controller. Everything is easier. Only one cable from the magnet sensor, no ramp needed. The set is much lighter and smaller. It needs to be tested in flight with magneto gas engine close by the sensor. I left the switches in the background to let you see, how smaller the magnet set is. In the video spot the switches are disconnected. It is only the magnet sensor working. If the flight test is OK, I consider this solution safer and more precise. When the sensor cable disconnects – the pano servo stays still. When the magnets fell down or the gap between the sensor and the magnets gets bigger, it will stay still after the sensor finds out there was no magnet passing by for longer than 7 seconds. All the guys that got the version with the switches and would like to get the one with the magnets would just send it back. We will reprogram the unit and include the magnet set – It will cost some little money for the post service and the magnet upgrade.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=moZsJMUtXAA



11-08-2009 09:12 PM
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PhotoShip One
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Location: Arizona & Taiwan

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I got the Pano Controller fitted to the VR360 with the micro switch version. Like all PS1 options and accessories, it is a direct bolt on with no modifications required. I fabricated a double cam that is bolted to the VR360 Helicopter Adapter and then made some aluminum switch mounts which bolt up to the existing servo holes.

I think the magnet version of the Pano Controller would be much easier to setup but this switch version does work very well.

It'll make sense how it fits to the VR360 when you view the video below.

http://vimeo.com/7544989

Design Team - PhotoShipOne
11-11-2009 03:22 PM
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daytonabeach
Elite Veteran
Location: Oslo, Norway

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Nice work Dj, looks nice and neat.
So, how much, and when will the first units be ready for shipping?

Never argue with an idiot, he'll drag you down to his level and beat you with experience...
11-11-2009 03:47 PM
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theslayer
Senior Heliman
Location: Munich-Germany

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Hey PS1
Looks really good. For the people who don't need all the technical stuff, will you still be releasing that Carbon wheel that triggers the microswitch every 60° ? Would really be interested in buying one of those...
Daniel
11-11-2009 06:07 PM
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PhotoShip One
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Location: Arizona & Taiwan

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Quote 
So, how much, and when will the first units be ready for shipping?

I want to wait until I try a magnet version before I decide which attachment brackets I'll make for the VR360.

Quote 
For the people who don't need all the technical stuff, will you still be releasing that Carbon wheel that triggers the microswitch every 60° ?

I'm not sure I'll put those into production. They only seem to work with Canon DSLRs. Nikons can't keep up fast enough. This Pano Controller really is the better method.

Design Team - PhotoShipOne
11-11-2009 10:18 PM
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Aerial Photography and Video > Pano Controller -- Shooting panorama? Tired of the tangled wires? See this.
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