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Antiques or Out of Business > GMP fixed pitch helis
 
 
Wozza_au
Heliman
Location: Adelaide South Australia

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Hi Guys...and Gals
well my new clutch arrived and is installed,before I have a go at tempt # 7 in getting my Rebel airborne.What sort of head speed should I be getting and how much do these thing shake left to right normally?
how tight should the main blades and tail blades be
Fianly do you set the tail blades up as per pic if your running a rate gyro?

any other tips for a successful outing ?
thanks for looking at my silly questions
Wozza
09-29-2009 09:11 AM
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ch-47c
Key Veteran
Location: san jose, ca

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Wozza_au,

The M/R blades are tightened like any modern day heli. Tighten until they take pressure by hand to move and now flop around by their own weight. Same with the T/R. When the Rebel came out no one checked their rotor speed for the most part. If I remember correctly most helis flew at 1300-1500 rpm. SkyTachs came later. Some used a prop tach and check the T/R rpm and divided the rpm by M/R to T/R ratio.

The T/R is set mechanically like a modern day heli in that, zero out your RUD Trim, RUD Sub-Trim, and set the servo are 90 degrees perpendicular to the servo case. Set the T/R gearbox pin to neutral. Adjust the tailrotor rod so that the servo is still 90 degrees and the gearbox pin is neutral.

Set the ATV to as much travel you can get each way with the stick and trim and NO BINDING. Then move the RUD stick to full, neutral trim. The T/R blades should be set to Zero degrees with the pitch change plate and collars. Full right RUD should give you whatever remains with trim also, which should be 20-30 degrees.

With a fixed pitch, I never used a gyro. Just ACCEL and later REVO-MIX. I adjusted per my radio manual so that the tailrotor compensated for torque by holding the heading when you jabbed the power. It didn't work all that great like a Heading Hold Gyro, but at the time it was the best. I adjusted without the gyro on the best I could then turned the gyro on to fine tune the tailrotor. Set one gain at 75% and the other at 40% to start.
09-29-2009 11:12 PM
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heli_headcase
Key Veteran
Location: Hovering around Atlanta

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Got to jump in here. This statement is incorrect:

Quote 
Set the ATV to as much travel you can get each way with the stick and trim and NO BINDING.

Wozzo asked about settings using a 'Rate Gyro', not heading-lock for which the above setting would be correct.

Rate gyros are self-limiting on travel. Binding of the tail pitch mechanism on the ground is perfectly okay and NOT what will happen dynamically (in flight). And simply set the neutral pitch (center pitch) of the tail blades so there's no drifting of the heli's nose in hover - that's where the rate gyro needs to be to work correctly. Will take some adjusting of the pitch rod collars to find that exact point and the final hover head speed will determine the pitch of the tail blades. I'd start with the 15 degrees (at neutral) as the instructions suggest and see where it takes you.

Good luck.


HHC

So many heli's - too little time...
09-30-2009 07:03 AM
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ch-47c
Key Veteran
Location: san jose, ca

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I disagree. When I read his post and he said rate gyro, I wasn't thinking of a modern electronic Heading Hold gyro which most everyone today is, with a rate mode. I was thinking more of a Futaba 152/153/154 or JR 120, which were mechanical and time period correct for the Rebel. I didn't think he was going to use a heading hold gyro in rate mode.

Quote 
Set the ATV to as much travel you can get each way with the stick and trim and NO BINDING.

I set my heading hold gyros to 100% ATV and don't worry about binding because of internal limiters or pots like the GY401. I use my ATV to adjust the piro rate, not like above.

When I used the mechanical type rate gyros, I set my ATVs to the max without binding on the biggest servo wheel I could fit. I don't remember in all my included instructions to bind up my equipment. In fact they all say not to do it, no matter what control it was. I could barely afford a 1000mah NiCad battery back then and was lucky to get 4-5 flights with one charge. I had heard of some overdriving their servos by running their RUD ATV 120%-140% and using a smaller tailrotor disk. Then cranking the gain up further.
09-30-2009 12:12 PM
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Wozza_au
Heliman
Location: Adelaide South Australia

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Hi Guys
thanks for the info much appreciated.
I have a HH gyro but thought it be a bad Idea to use due to wire tail drive,Ive read the wire can take a beating and brake.So I had a G190 laying around so I used that,I also have 2 mechanical ones but Im not game or brave enough
Thanks
Wozza
09-30-2009 02:00 PM
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Wozza_au
Heliman
Location: Adelaide South Australia

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Hi
Well I finally got this thing of the ground,all of 6inchs hey it was
flying Im still shaking from the adrenaline rush,speaking of shaking how much do these old things suppose to shake when in the air?
Thanks
Wozza
10-17-2009 06:49 AM
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ch-47c
Key Veteran
Location: san jose, ca

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Not alot. They need more of a balancing effort than modern helis. You Tube has a few Crickets, that are a smaller Rebel, on videos that show them pretty smooth. There may also be a Rebel too. Search Rebel or Cricket on You Tube and you will see some great videos, though few.
10-17-2009 08:01 AM
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Wozza_au
Heliman
Location: Adelaide South Australia

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Hi
Yep seen all those,tried doing a video of mine and you cant see the shake in a video due to FPS.Hmmmm on mine the skids where vibrating bad and the batt pack was bouncing around.Ive checked the main blades and balanced them on and off the heli,every thing feels smooth.Only thing I can think off is main shafts bent,drive belt tension and or the slop in the tail blades.
Thanks
Wozza
10-17-2009 09:23 AM
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xeon1000
Heliman
Location: florida

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Try spooling it up without the main blades, make sure your flybar is balaced. If no vibs or shaking try swicthing the main blades around just make sure you mark one of them and the grip it came from before you remove them. If the shaking is the same its main blades, if it stops the shaking or gets possibly worse then there is a good chance it is your main shaft.
10-17-2009 02:14 PM
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Wozza_au
Heliman
Location: Adelaide South Australia

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Now why didnt I think of that
Thanks
Wozza
10-17-2009 03:00 PM
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xeon1000
Heliman
Location: florida

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thanks to heli_headcase as he is the one who helped me out with my vibration issue.
10-17-2009 03:24 PM
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xeon1000
Heliman
Location: florida

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I should have said spool it up with the flybar as it is to see if that was the source of the vib before you balance the flybar. Sorry
10-17-2009 03:26 PM
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gorhambirds
Heliman
Location: Hickory Hills Illinois, usa

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Also,

Regarding these older helis, especially the Cricket, I have NEVER in my 30 years of building/flying them have I had a flywheel/clutch assemble run true. It seems like such an engineering error the way that the flywheel mounts, like a propeller, with no centering collet. I've used everything from brass stock to tin foil to paper to shim my flywheel setups. I guarantee that the results are worth the effort. First start with the flywheel to drive washer. When that runs true, mount the clutch. Shim that separately if need be.

Steve
10-17-2009 06:19 PM
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heli_headcase
Key Veteran
Location: Hovering around Atlanta

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Credit!!!!

Quote 
thanks to heli_headcase as he is the one who helped me out with my vibration issue.

Someone gave me credit! Thank you, Thank you, Thank you, Thank you!

I can see the flywheel mounting system would be a real problem. I've yet to build/restore a Cricket/Rebel but when the time comes, will probably work with the shimming too. It's the easiest solution.

Vibes from the engine/flywheel will be more difficult to see than main rotor imbalances but do far worse physical damage. As suggested, remove the main rotor blades but do the same for the tail. Have no more than 1/2 tank of fuel. Start the heli and while avoiding the flybar, bring the throttle up to roughly half while watching the fuel in the tank. Also grasp the frames (in a safe place) and feel the vibrations. If the engine is making lots of shaking, you'll almost have the sensation of receiving an electrical shock and the fuel will be frothing, almost like it's boiling. That's really bad and proves the engine assembly will require very close attention.

The "bouncing battery" does seem to point to a bent mainshaft.


HHC

So many heli's - too little time...
10-18-2009 01:27 AM
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Wozza_au
Heliman
Location: Adelaide South Australia

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Thanks for the replies going to try all the suggestions out today wish me luck
Wozza

I see dead pixels
10-19-2009 01:09 AM
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Wozza_au
Heliman
Location: Adelaide South Australia

My Posts This: Topic  Forum
Hi All
Main and tail blades off,flybar weights and paddles off,Still shakes around a fair bit.Looks like it might be as gorhambirds said the motor/fan clutch assem out of balance not running true,Ill have to beg borrow steal a dial indicator from somewhere so I can get it spot on then work from there....to be continued
Thanks
Wozza

I see dead pixels
10-19-2009 02:52 AM
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CANOMOD . Experience RC . Heli-Max

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Antiques or Out of Business > GMP fixed pitch helis
 
 
Wozza_au
Heliman
Location: Adelaide South Australia

My Posts This: Topic  Forum
A bit low budget but it works

It wasnt to bad but now its better
Now all I have to do is work out how to get the whole motor in as I dont want to have to balance the starter cone again,what a PITA.
Main shaft is true so if it still vibrates Im in trouble
Cheers
Wozza

I see dead pixels
10-19-2009 08:40 AM
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Model Rectifier Corp . ReadyHeli . Power Helis

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Antiques or Out of Business > GMP fixed pitch helis
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