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Main Discussion > Can autorotation be easily done with full size helis?
 
 
pang
Heliman
Location: Hong Kong

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		Can autorotation be easily done with full scale helis?

Just wondering...
03-01-2002 Over year old.
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Doug
Elite Veteran
Location: Naples Florida....

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		Absolutely, that is part of basic training, models are much harder due to scale effects. You don't see too many inverted, rolling, pirouetting autos though
03-01-2002 Over year old.
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pang
Heliman
Location: Hong Kong

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		I see...but one failing could cost your life...
03-01-2002 Over year old.
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RappyTappy
rrProfessor
Location: Las Vegas, NV

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		Autorotations are easy, but you have to be high enough or being going fast enough for autos. I'm referring to the R22. You can't be below I think 150 lbs and fly the R22 for autorotation puposes. If your engine quits 10 feet off the ground, you crash and you can die. If you stall the blades during a auto and chop your boom off, that not too good. Here is a excerpt from a Robinson helicopter POH under safety tips

<>

Chris
Logo 500 3D Vbar
03-01-2002 Over year old.
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LeeW
Heliman
Location: Belle Plaine, IA

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		full-size autos -

I'm a flight medic on an EMS heli (Bell 407). We have to (get to!!) do autos as part of our safety/"incident preparedness". They are a blast.

45secs from 2500 ft to the ground.

lee
03-01-2002 Over year old.
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Dave H.
Senior Heliman
Location: Tulsa, Oklahoma

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		Auto's

When I was in the Army, I crewed OH-58's. As far as auto's go NO THANK YOU

Dave
03-01-2002 Over year old.
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Buzzin Brian
Elite Veteran
Location: College Station, Texas

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		Sounds like a pucker manuver to me! Atleast if I botch an auto with one of my RC helis I can just go pick up the pieces and go home. Forseeing a rebuild in the works. Botch one in a real heli, and someone will be picking your pieces up off of the ground. With no rebuild planned at all.

No thank you!

Build it, fly it, crash it. Repeat as often as needed.
03-02-2002 Over year old.
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Taipan
Elite Veteran
Location: Sydney, Australia

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		Ah, reminds me of this joke ;

A group of students are waiting in line for their final test as full-size chopper pilots. Their task is to complete three autos, one after the other.

A student takes off, powers high up. He descends on approach for his first auto, misjudges the flare. Misses the helipad entirely, crashes, & the chopper thrashes itself to death.

The whole entourage of students & instructors make a run for the wreckage expecting the worst. Before they get there, the student gets out of the wreckage, brushes himself off. They see he is holding up two fingers and calls out; "Bring me another two choppers!"
03-02-2002 Over year old.
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SemiArticulate
Veteran
Location: On Location

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		.
03-02-2002 Over year old.
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Doug
Elite Veteran
Location: Naples Florida....

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		As a rather infamous south Florida Notar pilot said to a nearby Jet Ranger Pilot "watch this".
03-02-2002 Over year old.
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ed vega
Key Veteran
Location: nyc, queens

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		I have to ask my buddy jbberns , he's a full scale pilot in calf ..
03-02-2002 Over year old.
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SemiArticulate
Veteran
Location: On Location

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		Power recovery autos are normal practice but a good pilot will be competent with them to the extent that there is no practical risk factor with a full auto. Thats why I would not worry at all about getting into a R22 with a high time CFI and fly cross country but i wouldn't fly state to state with a low time private pilot in a Jet Ranger. But if you auto with the intent of saving the machine (no reason not to) you will save yourself in the process. No you can't do a straight down auto like the RC's because you don't have gobs of extra inertia to screw with. But one of the worst glide ratios, the R22, is still 4 to 1. All full scale helis auto with a pitch of 0 degrees. There is at least one heli that has -1 pitch but that is for a different reason. It is the forward airspeed and attitude of the helicopter in relation to the pitch that keeps it in flight without the engine. Just that factor will keep the blades at full operating RPM for the entire auto. In fact, it is often necessary to increase the pitch a little to slow the RPM so you do not break the tail rotor drive shaft due to overspeeding. A certified and well maintained helicopter is a well built machines and very safe if the pilot has some common sense. But they give you options you don't have with any other aircraft and thats where some people get themselves into trouble.
03-02-2002 Over year old.
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fitenfyr
rrProfessor
Location: Port Orchard, Washington

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		Right on...

Semi is right on the money. You know your R22 stuff.
Have enough time to be rated in those. In fact I busted my Check ride for PP due to a close call with overspeeding.
R22's are probably the toughest heli (IMO) to auto, but they do it all the time as that is the MOST important thing to learn when training on full scale. Once you have the basics down and can keep the heli in a reasonable hover and at some sort of controlled altitude/attitude in cruise flight the CFI will start "chopping the power".
R22's due to the stress and the low inertia systems usually don't do full autos to the ground, but the Army last I had heard still does them as part of their training and I know some commercial operators that fly "tougher" helis like the model 47 advertise that as an option.
The UH-1 series is said to have enough inertia left over after a well executed auto to set down, lift back up and do a 180.

Autos are a blast in full scale. As long as you have the sticks! (no back seat autos for me) If you can auto well you have done something as a pilot.
You know the old balancing on a ball routine. Well autos are like that while you also try to find a place to park and chew gum. Your busy to say the least.

Jason

Jason Stiffey
Fly Fast....Live Slow...
03-03-2002 Over year old.
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Vitya
Veteran
Location: North York, Ontario

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		I find this very interesting, I like physics but heli stuff is way better. Now alexander where do you live? You sound like a pilot, are you willing to give me a ride(not a joke)
03-04-2002 Over year old.
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SemiArticulate
Veteran
Location: On Location

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		Thats very interesting, I did not know that. I am fairly certain an R22 only goes to zero and I would think the 212 would be considered a higher inertia system than that. I did not know that anyone was using negative pitch to compensate for low inertia. I would think there is no hope of spinning the blades back up if you failed to enter the auto correctly and it would not do any good to overspeed the system if you had entered it correctly. If you entered the auto than you already have enough RPM to fly it down. So the negative seems odd. But If you got yourself into a position where you had to drop straight down then you have done something seriously wrong unless your attempting a hovering auto. It was my understanding that negative could actually cause you to loose RPM in a full scale heli because you would be pushing yourself down. The energy used to push you down would also eat RPM as its trade off. Maybe with so little negative it is not a factor? I don't see them doing any inverted autos any time soon . Its true that relative wind is what matters and in that regard I guess any heli could do a zero ground speed auto depending on the wind. The Jetranger series may have very high inertia systems, but the MD500 has better landing gear . In a hard landing, you can about put the belly on the ground and not need any repairs.
03-05-2002 Over year old.
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