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Beginners Corner > Newbie learning to fly 450 electric. My experiences.
 
 
speedyrob
New Heliman
Location: Clarksville, AR --USA

My Posts This: Topic  Forum
Hi all,

I am new to this forum and new to rc heli. After reading a lot of the post over the last week, I feel that many of you have valuable experience to share, so I joined and would like to post my learning experience.

I love to read about other experiences when learning especially those who are just ahead of me, lets me know what to expect. So, I want to post my learning experience for anyone considering learning to fly or just starting out. I have read quite a few of the post on here so maybe I can learn from others mistakes and avoid a few myself.

I just received my new electric heli from xheli. It is a Dynam Razor 450, a lot like a TRex. I could not find out a lot about these but the have a pretty cheap price and it had CNC rotor head and tail rotor parts. Nice painted fiberglass canopy, brushless motor, gyro, lipo and charger and all the electronics. I am a little nervous about how these cheap electronic will hold up but I will be happy if it last a month cause I image I will be pretty hard on it.

So far, I am pleased with it, not knowing anything about these, it seems to be good quality as far as the mechanics go.

I spent about 4 hours on Clearview and HelisimRC, then I charged my lipo and checked out the heli, checked how tight the blades were and verified that the controls worked properly. These Razor 450 comes RTF and supposedly have been setup and tested at the factory. I put on the training gear (arrow shafts and foam balls) and took it out in the yard. Hovered pretty nice, kept having to trim, I am not sure the swash is completely level but it does hover and is very similiar to the way the CPPro with training gear in Clearview hovers.

It is really smooth and quiet. I keep it about 2 feet off the ground and try to keep it close to me, when it starts to drift away I try to get it to stop and then set it down soft as I can and start over, the training gear seems to help cushion it, especially on grass. I ran out my first battery doing this and did not crash, I think the sim helped a lot because when it would start to move, I would react just as in the sim. ( I still lose it in the sim)

I want to note that I did not practice the easy models in the sim, I practice with smaller electric CPs and on HelisimRC I chose the sport model 450 setup which gives you more of a challenge, I even added some wind, I can tell I definately don't want to fly in wind yet. When someone say, make sure you learn on a perfectly calm day, I can tell you they are not pulling your leg. Try it on the sim, you will see, got your hands full already.

Well, I am charging up, practicing the sim, cutting the grass, until it is ready to go again. I have to say, so far, I love these heli's. I have always want to try 'em, the sims do help me a lot. I got the Esky tx to use with Clearview and the free HelisimRC. As I said, as a newbie, my experience with the real heli was very similar to the simulator.

Thanks for all the advice you all give to others, I have read a lot if it and it helps lot more people than you know.
09-23-2009 08:53 PM
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Heli 770
rrProfessor
Location: Lemon Grove, Ca. USA.

My Posts This: Topic  Forum
sounds like you're off to a good start, Welcome to Runryder.
09-23-2009 09:49 PM
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speedyrob
New Heliman
Location: Clarksville, AR --USA

My Posts This: Topic  Forum
Thanks

Had my second flight this afternoon. Hovered off another battery. About the same as the first flight but a little better keeping over one spot. I definately need to practice keeping it over one spot and not letting it drift.

I am new to these Lipo batteries. I understand the can catch fire, I guess if they are overcharged but don't the Lipo chargers monitor that? I also know some types of batteries need to be discharged fully and recharged fully for max life. How are Lipo's, can they be partially used and then recharged or only partially recharged without hurting them?
09-24-2009 01:52 AM
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Simko
Senior Heliman
Location: Erie, PA - USA

My Posts This: Topic  Forum
Well... I'm only 1/2 a step ahead of you so I'll elaborate on what I have found out so far:

1) This hobby is challenging... Learning to fly, learning to fix, and learning to find ways to hide multiple $100 purchases from your wife!

2) There is a steep learning curve to learning to fly. Learning to hover can be done in as little as a day. Getting the muscle memory to actually fly and be able to handle 'emergency' situations takes time. The challenge is part of the reason that I'm hooked on this hobby. That and all of the chicks I get when I'm flying at the field (LOL.. yeah right.. see item #1.. wife)

3) You can learn to fly one of two ways. Fly-crash-fly-crash-fly-crash or sim-fly-sim-fly-sim-crash. One of these ways is much cheaper than the other.

4) People will try and tell you that you should have started with something bigger or that you should have bought a name brand heli.... blah, blah, blah. Just keep doing what works for you and don't let what you read discourage you. I started with a $30 AirHog Picoo-Z type of heli and that's what got me hooked.

My first 'real' heli was an EXI 450. It flies awesome and isn't too expensive to repair. The biggest problem is that since i bought my EXI about 6 months ago, I have amassed 6 other helis of different sizes including my latest purchase a Raptor 50. If you sell your heli on EBAY now there may be hope for you.

5) I learned to fly on HelisimRC and it definitely helped me learn to hover, but you will want to upgrade to something better. I'm currently saving up for Phoenix, but my problem is that what is more important... buying a sim, or buying repair parts for the 450 that I just crashed over the weekend.

6) Learn to smile when you crash!

7) "Hovered pretty nice, kept having to trim, I am not sure the swash is completely level but it does hover" When I started, I would adjust-fly-trim-repeat for at least a battery or two after a crash to get it to hover decent and even then it never seemed to fly really well. I kept telling myself that this is the best my clone is gonna fly. I decided to pony up the cash for a Youngblood swash level tool, Now, I can have the heli almost perfectly leveled on the first try and flying with few second hands-off hover.

8) I have learned a ton of tricks since starting this hobby. I wish there was a way to put it all in your post here, but there isn't so you are going to have to learn to use that little link at the top center of every RunRyder page. I'll give you a hint... it rhymes with 'birch'.

Good Luck!
09-24-2009 02:13 AM
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what_the_helli
Key Veteran
Location: cookeville, tn USA

My Posts This: Topic  Forum
Welcome to RR

your charger is SUPPOSED to make sure it does not over charge your lipo. Some guys use a "lipo sack" (specially made fireproof bag) or ammo can or even a coffee can to batts in while they are charging just to be safe. I just put mine on the counter where I can keep an eye on it, or charge at the field.


it will not hurt your lipo to partially use it then recharge.
also most everyone uses the 80% rule with lipos for a margin of safety. so the object would be to use 1760mah out of a 2200mah pack

I put the fun in dysFUNctional :)
Team KBDD & RcHeliWorkz.com
09-24-2009 02:23 AM
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speedyrob
New Heliman
Location: Clarksville, AR --USA

My Posts This: Topic  Forum
Hey, thanks for the replys.

Good infor on the Lipo's, I do keep a close eye on it while charging and I keep it in a ceramic flower pot.

I do have a "seperate acct" from my wife so I can buy little things here and there without the inquisition everytime.

I will definately have to invest in a swash leveler, thanks for all that good info and encouragement, I will keep pluggin away at the sim and practicing that hover.
09-24-2009 03:12 AM
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SimkoSenior Heliman - Location: Erie, PA - USA - My Posts This: Topic  Forum
I bought one of these to charge my Lipos (and NIMH, NICad, PB, LiFe) batteries.

It is basically a clone of a Bantam BC6. My buddy who has a BC6 took my charger for a couple nights because he couldn't believe that something that was 4x less could be anywhere as good as his Bantam.

Well, he gave it back and said that it worked just as well as his charger.

I have been using it for about 6 months now and haven't burnt the house down yet. I must be doing something right.

Thunder AC6 from Xheli.com

09-24-2009 03:48 AM
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ruddernate
Key Veteran
Location: sulphur,Ok.

My Posts This: Topic  Forum
Quote 
so the object would be to use 1760mah out of a 2200mah pack


this should be stressed. if you use more than 80% (1760) you will not only shorten the life of the lipo but you seriously increase the odds of damaging the pack to destruction very quickly. especially cheaper lipos.you can set a timer when you figure out what you're putting back into the pack when charging to get it close to 1760 mah. then consider that you're allowed flight time. you're on the right track. it can be a very frustrating hobby sometimes but you'll take the abuse from your helis and beg for more. it's a sickness really. i like the clearview sim. it's good for muscle memory. the rest just comes from actual stick time. happy flying.

fly it like you stole it
09-24-2009 05:45 AM
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speedyrob
New Heliman
Location: Clarksville, AR --USA

My Posts This: Topic  Forum
Ok, so don't wait for the ESC to cut back? There is a timer on the TX.

I guess one thing I like about heli is the mechanics, I like to mess with things and tune and turn wrenches. I will get plenty of that when I crash
09-24-2009 01:29 PM
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T-Rex-Flyer
Key Veteran
Location: Panama City, Fl

My Posts This: Topic  Forum
Welcome to RunRyder and too the addiction. I guess you're not at a loss for words. Please take the time to fill out you're profile when you get the chance. I may help others help you in the future.

Again Welcome.

If the wings are traveling faster than the fuselage, it's probably a helicopter.
09-24-2009 03:00 PM
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speedyrob
New Heliman
Location: Clarksville, AR --USA

My Posts This: Topic  Forum
Got my profile filled out as suggested.

Also, got Flight no. 3 done. Getting better at hovering in one place, messed with the collective mix on the radio, it seems I can set the pitch to take off at lower or higher rpms. I set it so that I am about 60% throttle for liftoff. I will have to play with that some more but it is smooth with little vibration at that setting, any lower at it shakes on takeoff. Also, hover was stable at this setting not bobbing around.

I ran it until the ESC cutoff and checked the battery, I had 3.56 volts per cell. From what I have read, it says, never get it below 3.0 volts and 3.7 is nominal.

So, is this good? Can I run it to the ESC cutoff at 3.56 volts per cell or should I do it differently and try to stop sooner?

Thanks for all your replies.

Just learning on a Dyanam Razor 450
09-24-2009 04:27 PM
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speedyrob
New Heliman
Location: Clarksville, AR --USA

My Posts This: Topic  Forum
On another point, once I learn to hover and then learn forward flight, figure 8's and get really comfortable with the RC heli, I would like to "upgrade". That is, I would like to build up a kit and use better servos, gyros, ESC and a better heli radio, maybe Futaba, I have a good one for planks, or maybe a Specktrum.

I would like to go a little larger though, these parts are so small. What would be about twice the size of a 450? and prefer electric.

So far it is nice not messing with the nitro but I could be convinced, I have ran a lot of nitro's in the past, even 4 strokes, brands like OS and Enya were my favorites. Fuel is high but so are batteries. I like the quiet though. So, 600,700. Just like to move to bigger sometime in the future but with reason for the price. It is hard to imagine the actual size just from a measurement. So, I would like a comparision against the 450 size that I have now.

Thanks to all, I am really excited about this hobby. (Can ya tell)
Rob

Just learning on a Dyanam Razor 450
09-24-2009 04:38 PM
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mgjones
Senior Heliman
Location: Seattle, WA - USA

My Posts This: Topic  Forum
I'm only a little ahead of you, but I'll throw in my 2.5 cents worth.


Quote 
I ran it until the ESC cutoff and checked the battery, I had 3.56 volts per cell. From what I have read, it says, never get it below 3.0 volts and 3.7 is nominal.

I wouldn't recommend running it until the ESC cuts out. Set yourself a timer of about 6-7 minutes, go back and charge, write down the starting and ending values and compare. If you are putting more than 80% of the rated value back in to the pack you'll likely reduce the life of the pack best case, or destroy the pack worst case.

I purchased a small lipo monitor with a blue light and a buzzer from www.hobbyking.com. This alerts when I get below the preset level (sorry don't remember what that exact level is off the top of my head).

Also, is your ESC Hot to the touch when you're done? If so, you may want to purchase a separate BEC (or upgrade to an ESC with a decent one built in) I have one from Castle Creations - works good, simple to install etc.

About your helipad.. You mentioned that you're working off of grass - I found that the grass tended to interfere with the heli during takeoffs and I was more likely to tip over unless I popped it out of the grass pretty quickly. I put down a smooth surface (I had some of those lock-together 24x24 foam pads you put down for kids to play on) that helped me with the grass grabing the training gear.

Most of all, welcome to the addiction.. It's expensive, but at least it's legal.

- Michael

First Heli - ESky BeltCP v2 2.4G
The addiction begins!
09-24-2009 04:42 PM
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speedyrob
New Heliman
Location: Clarksville, AR --USA

My Posts This: Topic  Forum
Thanks for in the info on the battery, I will start doing that, measure voltages and time flights to see where I am at, don't want to damage battery.

The ESC is warm but not hot, the battery is also warm but not hot.

I have found that I like the grass better but I do pop up to about 3 feet and just hover around.

I tried to start out on the cheaper side figuring I would crash a lot but so far so good, the sim has helped. I would like to upgrade to a nice heli later, bigger and with better electronics.

thanks

Just learning on a Dyanam Razor 450
09-24-2009 05:08 PM
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speedyrob
New Heliman
Location: Clarksville, AR --USA

My Posts This: Topic  Forum
Crash on Flight #4

Everything was going pretty good, had some real stable hovering, then I let it get turned sideways moving backwards away from me, it started to angle toward the ground and I could not correct fast enough, but I cut the power back..then off just as the rotors hit.

It had to happen sooner or later. Not much damage. I could see walking up that one main blade was damaged and was sticking up at an angle. I looked closer and saw that the blade had damage near the blade grips from the head (grips) coming around on biting into it. The other blade looks OK.

I could also see a ball link connector was bent, the one that attaches to the blade grip for the blade that was sticking up. And the blade grip was also sticking up at an angle, due to the feathering shaft being bent.

So, new blades, new feathering shaft, new ball link connector. To order the parts I have to buy a kit for the feathering shaft that comes with 3 shafts, the ball link connector kit comes with all the connectors for the head, and I ordered 2 sets of blades. I also went ahead and got new tail rotor blades. My are fine but I can see them getting damaged easily.

The actual cost for the required parts was less than $10. With the extra main and tail blades plus $4.95 Spare Parts shipping the total out the door is about $22.

It all happened just like in the simulator, I let it get a little high and a little far and in the wrong spot (nose in moving backwards). It was going good though, I really did have some stable hovering and was keeping pretty under control but after about 5 mins this happened, almost made the whole flight, this probably would have been my last session before recharging. Oh well, thats one!

Later

Just learning on a Dyanam Razor 450
09-24-2009 09:11 PM
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speedyrob
New Heliman
Location: Clarksville, AR --USA

My Posts This: Topic  Forum
In regards to my crash, I would like to mention that I did have the training gear on and it took a lot of the hit. I use rubber bands to secure my arrow shafts to the heli gear and I have foam balls on the ends, they cross in the middle to make an "X". One of these shafts was pushed back about 8", it asorbed a lot of the shock. I think this is a big reason for so little damage, no damage to canopy or landing gear or tail rotor or boom.

Also, the CNC metal parts did not break, not the rotor head, not the metal blade grips or any of the swash control on pitch control parts. Just the feathering shaft and the control link, I actually think the main blades could fly again but I wont use them. They are fiberglass, by the way.

My training gear is big, it is so big it is almost out as far as the rotor diameter. I also have a foam ball on the bottom of the vertical stabilizer, it does not interfer with the tail rotor. Maybe kinda overkill to some but I think it has saved me a lot here and it seems to fly well with it on, also makes it easier to see attitude changes.

Sorry to go on but this is just the kinda thing I would want to know

Just learning on a Dyanam Razor 450
09-24-2009 09:45 PM
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speedyrob
New Heliman
Location: Clarksville, AR --USA

My Posts This: Topic  Forum
Photos of crash damage

Not much to see, but you can see the broken feathering shaft, it was only bent but broke when I moved it, the blades with little damage, the bent ball link connector and also you can see how I have my training gear setup.



Just learning on a Dyanam Razor 450
09-24-2009 10:06 PM
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JRjoe
Elite Veteran
Location: Portage, IN USA #1

My Posts This: Topic  Forum
Check the main shaft...They almost always bend in a crash...


JRjoe
Indoor plumbing??? No, we don't need that!!!
09-24-2009 10:30 PM
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speedyrob
New Heliman
Location: Clarksville, AR --USA

My Posts This: Topic  Forum
Back together again...

Got the parts in. Main shaft is still straight, wasn't too bad of a crash. Replaced one ball link connector, new main blades (only one had damage), new feathering shaft.

Just got around to putting these on today and took it out to the yard for testing. Only had a partial charge on the Lipo, so I only did a couple short hovers. Went well, smooth. Guess I got it together right. I am happy with it, only a few dollars in parts and I have some spares now.

I have put in more time with the simulators and that has helped, working on side on and nose in hovering as well as some forward flight and using the tail more. Want to get more comfortable with controlling the heli in different orientations.

Not great weather this week, I will put a partial charge on the Lipo and keep on with the sim until better weather, then back out to the real thing.

Thanks for all the support and advice.

Just learning on a Dyanam Razor 450
10-05-2009 04:18 PM
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PaulGT3
Senior Heliman
Location: Mammoth Lakes Ca

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I am a little bit ahead of you too. But I like working on
them too. I almost like building them better than flying them.
I have three now. A protos 500, a beam e4 and the latest is a belt
CP I bought upgraded from my mentor Dr Tim. I had to buy the servos gyro and stuff and build it. I bought it as a cheapy to fly so I dont crash the others, but I built it and its rock solid! I learned alot about setup on this one and it is the cheapy and flys better than the other two. I now need to go through the other two and apply my new knowledge to those two and get them to be rock solid. I used the HG 5000 on this new one and its more solid than the Gy401 and the 502 on the Protos.
But I do the fly crash fly crash sim sim fly crash method. I think I have flown 3 out of 30 flights without some sort of crash. I have the feeling the training gear causes about 50% of the crashes.
But I can fly the sim now along time without crashing. I want to buy an even bigger copter for Christmas. some type of gasser. a Hibyro or something Freya or something similar.
They are fun to wrench on. Truly its been too hot to fly here but we had a dramatic drop so flying time should increase.
good luck with yours.
10-08-2009 03:38 AM
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