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Midland Helicopters . HeliProz . Ron’s HeliProz South

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Aerobatic FAI F3C Contest > Schedule "P"
 
 
Spacey
Veteran
Location: Pretoria, South Africa

My Posts This: Topic  Forum

Tim,

There's quite a few ways to approach this, and alot will still be right. Doesn't mean the top 1/3 would be a piro at all, but I did highlight that for the powers that be and apparently their happy either way.

Cheers,
Rudolf
10-14-2009 08:05 AM
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Heimypilot
Heliman
Location: Hengelo Netherlands

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		piro's in P1 maneuver

Hello again,

I forgot to mention in my last post that I was talking about the P1 maneuver

Quote 
However me and my mate had a small uncertainty about the pirouettes. It is not descibed what way to turn them. As I read it it will be possible to turn all half pirouettes so that the MA is always turning tail in.
Or do I have to read the name: 2 half pirouettes per segment , that in each of the four segments I have one and the same turning direction.

please have a look ait it.
Thanks

Steven.
10-14-2009 08:25 AM
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Synthax
Senior Heliman
Location: Warsaw - Poland

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		How about power consumption for thi schedule. Is it enought to fly 10S 5000? Or better 12s, even 4000mah.. It is not to start again the discussion about e or nitro. Just curiosity : )

One day it just became your lifestyle.
10-14-2009 01:20 PM
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GM1
Elite Veteran
Location: Tallahassee, Florida US

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		Uhh........

The US World Team was using 10S-6600mah and replaced about 4800mah or so per flight. They expect to be able to use 2X 6S 5000 mah for the new schedules as 12S is much more efficient.
Let's see.....12S batteries, 6.5Kg model,
6+ horse power and 12+ minute flight times......
Sounds like nitro is effectively at a huge disadavantage.
Gordie

On a dog sled team, if you're not the lead dog, the view never changes.
10-14-2009 02:21 PM
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ymuraki
Heliman
Location: Tampa, FL

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		Gordie,
Mine is 5.44Kg with 12S 5000mAh pack, but there's no way, at least for now, I can stretch to 12min.

nob
10-14-2009 04:44 PM
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Salesmanheliboy
Senior Heliman
Location: Nashville, TN

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		Nob,

Sounds like you can add 1Kg more of battery capacity!

Tim
10-15-2009 04:38 AM
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GM1
Elite Veteran
Location: Tallahassee, Florida US

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		Yep

That sounds like the plan to me. 12S 6600 mah packs should give about 13-14 minutes if part of it is low rpm hovering.
Gordie

On a dog sled team, if you're not the lead dog, the view never changes.
10-15-2009 02:53 PM
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ymuraki
Heliman
Location: Tampa, FL

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		Tim, true, I can get bigger packs, but I think 8.5min is enough for me.

Have you done auto on 6.5kg machines? I've done 180 autos with stick banger blades and SUCKED. I think 6.5Kg machine'll be like that, and S-Auto in cross wind will be even more fun.

Nob
10-15-2009 04:26 PM
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Dwight
Senior Heliman
Location: West Chicago, IL

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		Hey guys. Long time no comments.

I have been testing the 12S configuration and it seems that my typical flight is taking 3700 to 3900 in good conditions. This compares to 4600 to 4900 using 10S. I feel that the 5000mah packs will not be enough for good safety. What we will need is some 5400 to 5600 packs to comfortably use 12S with the same safety margin as the 6600 10S setup. I did find it interesting to see the amp draw under max load to be around 80 amps whereas before I could pull over 100 amps. Hovering now draws about 17 amps and before it was 22 to 23. As of right now I am not likely to change to 12S unless we can get higher capacity batteries that don't increase weight significantly. This would make all my old stuff obsolete and it works very well now.

Dwight

PS. Have fun in Huntsville. I would like to go but it is a long drive with no practice under my belt. Chicago has sucked for weather the last month.
10-16-2009 09:01 PM
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ErichF
Elite Veteran
Location: Odessa, FL 33556 (Tampa Area)

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		Hey Dwight,

I don't get this math:

Quote 
I have been testing the 12S configuration and it seems that my typical flight is taking 3700 to 3900 in good conditions. This compares to 4600 to 4900 using 10S.

3700 to 3900 is well within the supposed 80/20% rule of a 5000mAh pack. Personally, I would feel confident with using a 5000 pack.

Are you saying that your numbers 3700-3900 are from flights requiring no extra power such as high crosswinds? Maybe just need to "fake" a couple flights using more power than usual and see what draws?

Erich
10-16-2009 11:36 PM
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Dwight
Senior Heliman
Location: West Chicago, IL

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		Erich,

You are correct. If 3700 to 3900 was a flight pushing the power envelope I would agree. I am saying that under perfect conditions the 5000 mah will work but if I have adverse conditions it is not enough. I think that I would use 4200 to 4400 under more pressing conditions.

Dwight
10-17-2009 02:00 AM
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ymuraki
Heliman
Location: Tampa, FL

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		Hey Dwight,
I tried P schedule in cross wind (15~20mph wind.)
I had to put back 4200mA on the packs. So your assumption is right. I should get 5400mAh packs.

I still need to work on hover rpm, but the way my motor is set up, I can't hover below 1500rpm. If I lower the head speed, esc and motor make hell of noise. (Sounds like bad main gears.) Once go above 1500, the chattering noise goes away. Also, my idle up head speed was 2200+rpm. I could use 12:1 gear ratio... I'll play more on esc timing and head speeds to optimize power usage.

What was your motor kvm and timing & gear ratio?

Nob
10-19-2009 11:01 PM
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Dwight
Senior Heliman
Location: West Chicago, IL

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		I am using a 684 and 825 kv motor. Using the 684 and 12S I am currently testing with 14.4 gear ratio. I think 14 may be perfect but I have only flown 5 flights since the Worlds. So far I am not planning on going to 12S since I have seen no benefit in run time. It is about 5 ounces lighter with 5000mah packs but that is not enough. If the packs increase to 5400 to 5600 they would likely weight the same as 10S and then I would really see no benefit.
10-19-2009 11:15 PM
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Dwight
Senior Heliman
Location: West Chicago, IL

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		Candle with 2 Half Rolls and a Half Pushed Traveling Flip

MA flies straight and level for 10m and enters the manoeuvre by pulling up into a 5m (minimum) vertical ascent, followed by half roll and another 5m (minimum) ascent. MA performs a half pushed travelling flip such that the first half occurs during the ascent and the second half occurs during the descent. MA goes into a vertical 5m descent followed by a half roll and another 5m descent to same altitude as entry. MA continues for 10m to finish the manoeuvre.

How do you perform this according to the description? I think this is incorrectly worded. Does this mean the first half of the maneuver or flip? If it is the maneuver that is just obvious since gravity will take over at some point.
10-19-2009 11:17 PM
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ymuraki
Heliman
Location: Tampa, FL

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		I guess MA needs to be right side up flat on apex.
10-19-2009 11:36 PM
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Dr.Ben
rrProfessor
Location: Richmond, VA, USA

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		My numbers aren't looking good for 12S 5000. 6min of hovering consumed right at or just over 2000 mA. I can't see where I'll be able to get through the CIII aeros with only 2000mA. Erich, how long was it taking for us to do the CIII aeros? I can't improve efficiency easily with gearing like you can with a C90 to get the motor kV up higher. In addition, the CC ESC is NOT playing well with the current software iteration in my model. Even with the ratio boxes satisfied for hover, it's not happy at any reasonable hover rpm or governor gain. Idle up isn't smooth either. It's chattering just like Nob described. I'm consulting with Clint Akins to see how to fix this. It's a moot point if I can't find the run time to use 5000's, because 6600's are cost prohibitive (2+X 5000 cost).

Who has 5400's?

Ben

Representing
MRC Hirobo Helicopters and Team Futaba for Radios
Morgan Fuels
OS Engines
10-20-2009 01:07 AM
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F1 Rocket
Senior Heliman
Location: Melbourne, Florida USA

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		5500's

Hyperion 6s 5500's are $260 per pack.
We will have some EM 5500's later in the year that should be approx $190 for a 6s pack.


Danny

Esprit Model
10-20-2009 01:20 AM
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ErichF
Elite Veteran
Location: Odessa, FL 33556 (Tampa Area)

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		Ben, We were taking about 8:30 to complete CIII.

The packs Danny is referring to sound like just the ticket.

I wonder if it would be possible to build a first stage belt drive under the main gear of the Eagle? If you look in my gallery, you can see the Electric Observer that used a similar conversion setup. I know there's framework below the maingear, but is there room below to install a motor/pulley plate?




Erich
10-20-2009 01:32 AM
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Dr.Ben
rrProfessor
Location: Richmond, VA, USA

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		Three sets well over $1000. It's just not feasable for me money wise. It'll have to come out and the 91HZ will go in in its place. My whole project was based on the advice and info that I had received that 5000 would be enough. It's not, at least with my current set up,nor with Nob's.

Ben

Representing
MRC Hirobo Helicopters and Team Futaba for Radios
Morgan Fuels
OS Engines
10-20-2009 01:36 AM
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F1 Rocket
Senior Heliman
Location: Melbourne, Florida USA

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		I think with some fine tuning you will be able to use the 5000's. I know Nob's setup is far from optimal. Also as you get used to things you will discover ways to conserve power when you don't need it. With E-power it is very easy to waste energy that adds nothing to the overall performance.


Danny

Esprit Model
10-20-2009 01:49 AM
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