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CarbonXtreme . Midland Helicopters . HeliProz

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e-Century Hummingbird - Swift > Swift 620 SE Build question
 
 
HarveyR
Heliman
Location: France - North

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		OK. At last (last Thursday) I have received my Swift 620 SE. I've got on with the build and have a question regarding pitch range.

Of course, I've followed the instructions as best I can:

http://www.centuryhelimedia.com/Swift620SE_Manual.pdf

Look page 17.

Two comments:

1) In the configuration of the picture (Servos and Bell Cranks at neutral position), pitch is about 0 (blade grip is about horizontal).

If you look closely at the picture, you'll see that the Pins coming down from the Washout Guide are just about touching (1mm I'd say) the Swashplate, stopping it from going any higher, meaning that it is just about impossible to get any considerable positive pitch (maybe 2 or 3 degrees max) according to this picture!

2) I've reproduced exactly the rod lengths, and on my heli, in the same configuration (Servos and Bell Cranks at neutral) I get large positive pitch (around 11 degrees). This is good because the swash can't go any higher anyway, so I need full pitch there. But this is bad because I get full positive pitch with Servo at neutral. And the other major issue, is that because the "Upper Shaft Collar" (see page 9) is really high (about 1 cm, much higher than it looks in the photo page 17), the Swashplate can't go very low, giving only about -1 degrees negative.



So basically, is there a known issue with this? What have you other 620SE builders done? I see two solutions: getting the "Low Profile Upper Shaft Collar" (which I've ordered) to get the Swashplate going lower and/or cutting the Guide Pins to allow the swash plate to go higher (doing both seems to me to be the only way to hope getting -12/+12). In both cases, I'm not sure I'll be able to use the provided rods any more.

Harvey
09-15-2009 09:23 AM
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laughingstill
Elite Veteran
Location: Gainesville, Fl, USA

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		You need to:
(1) Set the swash and head to neutral
(2) Make your own linkage lengths and forget the manual suggestions
(3) Cut 2mm off the pins to get max pitch range,

All should be good after that......Ron

Esprit Model Flight Team, Logo 600 VBAR Xera 4030, Logo 500 Mini-VBAR Xera 4020, 3DMP-E VBAR soon!
09-15-2009 12:31 PM
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HarveyR
Heliman
Location: France - North

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		Hi Ron,

I have the impression I could cut off much more than two mm of the Pins (maybe 5 or so, I'll look closer this evening), because the Upper Shaft Collar is really thick (about 1 cm I'd say, it seems reidiculious, so the Swashplate can't go very low). That's why I've ordered the low profile one (look like it's about 4mm thick. So for now I want cut anything because if I cut and then use the low profile clamp, the pins might be too short.

How thick is your "Upper Shaft Collar" ?

Also for now I don't have the A-Arm (it was missing in the kit, Century made no hassle and are sending it). Can you confim me that the A linkage (see http://www.centuryhelimedia.com/Swift620SE_Manual.pdf page 17 again) should be 79mm. The A linkage length must be equal to the A-Arm hight, so I have no choice here.

Can you tell me if your A-Arm hight is 79mm (and are your A linkages 79mm, like the manual suggests)?

Thanks for the help.

Harvey
09-15-2009 03:50 PM
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laughingstill
Elite Veteran
Location: Gainesville, Fl, USA

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		I sold my 550 (620 is the same heli) a while ago. I just remember that the linkage suggestions for the setup were WAY off. You will have to wait until you get the A-Arm before you set those up.
The pins were 2mm too long for me but maybe it is different for you. I would wait to cut them until after you have all the linkages setup correctly as a change may be needed and if you cut too much off, you will have a useless headblock ........Ron

Esprit Model Flight Team, Logo 600 VBAR Xera 4030, Logo 500 Mini-VBAR Xera 4020, 3DMP-E VBAR soon!
09-15-2009 04:06 PM
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HarveyR
Heliman
Location: France - North

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		Thanks. However, I overlooked what I said... the A-Arm isn't the same height as the A Linkage. Can somebody give me the height of the A-Arm please?
09-15-2009 05:05 PM
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laughingstill
Elite Veteran
Location: Gainesville, Fl, USA

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		Send a pm to Al Austria, he will know........Ron

Esprit Model Flight Team, Logo 600 VBAR Xera 4030, Logo 500 Mini-VBAR Xera 4020, 3DMP-E VBAR soon!
09-15-2009 05:06 PM
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HarveyR
Heliman
Location: France - North

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		I've at last received the A-Arm and other stuff (aluminium tail slide and tail grips, head button, carbon paddles, low profile upper clamp, tuff struts, ...) and should be able to just about finish the build this evening (at least check out and optimise the pitch range stuff).

By far this heli is going to be the flashyest I've ever had (my stock "Hawk SE" is my best so far, this 620SE hardly has any plastic on it!). Starting to wonder if I'll have the guts to push the throttle! Maybe I should just leave it on the shelf in the living room.

I'll be back if I have any further questions with the rest of my build/setup.
09-23-2009 04:43 PM
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HarveyR
Heliman
Location: France - North

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		Damn... I was hoping to be able to optimise the pitch range stuff yesterday, but not even. Things went so bad I didn't even manage to get that far (but in the end it's turned out well) :

- First, getting the A-Arm bearings into the CF side frames was impossible without taking the frames fully of the heli. I was hoping I could pop them in by untightening the frame screws. This would have worked if the holes in the frame for the bearing were big enough! I needed a vice to force those bearings into the frame

- The heads of the servo mounting screw just totally rounded of (I do have a full set of good quality screw drivers and I did pick the right one, but the heads just seemed to be so soft), I had to get the servo screws out with plyiers. When I put the servos back on I used the Futaba screws (prvided with the servos) instead of the Century provided ones, and they seem harder (no problem so far)

- Then, after putting it back together I noticed about 3mm side slop in he A-Arm. A closer look at the manual indicates that on the left their are in fact two spacers (CNE583 and CNE586). In my kit I only had the CNE583. I'm sure century will just send the CNE586 without any hassle, but I'll have to untighten the frames again (hopefully, as the bearing are in, I won't need to take them fully off this time!). However, in the meantime, I slided a plastic "snap on spacer" which I think will be fine until first crash and rebuild.

- The metal tail pitch slider is slightly different from the plastic one and requires the bellcranck to be lowered, so I needed a longer screw and a 3mm spacer (which luckily I had in the kit because they packed 3mm flybar spacers instead of 4mm (and sent me the 4mm after))

- During all this, while fiddling around, I spilt my pot of thread lock all over the table and when trying to catch it to limit the damage I pushed my Dremel on the floor and it came open! Cleaned the table and repaired the dremel (luckily only the table and skids were hit by the thread lock, with the luck I was having I wouldn't have been suprised to get it all over the bearing/thrusts/electronics) !




But, finally, at the end of the fight, the heli is looking really nice and in the end, dispite the difficulties assembling it, I think all is done well and it seems to work really smooth and slop free.

This evening, I'll be messing around adjusting the head and those guide pins and I hope to get the first test flights in this week end (it is fully assembled now, only the head needs looking into for the pitch range and the servo links need doing). Good job in the meantime I have my good old HawkSE to keep up training!
09-24-2009 08:45 AM
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Pistol_Pete
Elite Veteran
Location: Tampa Bay non-Buccaneer

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		Why more pitch?

Have you flown a similar configuration already and not happy with its performance?

Seems to me that once you get that head speed in the 2k range, she will give you your moneys worth.

<><>...the lunatic is in my head...<><>
09-24-2009 02:49 PM
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HarveyR
Heliman
Location: France - North

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		Well, good question. On my Hawk SE, I have +/- 11 about, probably spinning around 1700RPM.

On the 620SE from my initial measures with the stock setup I'm getting something like -6 +8. Thanks to my low profile head clamp I hope to get -10 and by cutting the guide pins I hope to get +10. I'll be looking closer this evening at all this (so that's -/+10, which isn't that much either, but should be OK).

From what I've read here, many people cut about 2 or 3 mm of the pins (they are simply said to be too long).

Of course, I've never flown the heli yet, but +8 -6 seems to little, I mean it'll be spinning like hell with no load. And Century advise not to go behond 2100RPM (this is a 620mm blade machine, not a 450mm!), and I don't think it's good to be spinning too fast, I plan to spin around 1700RPM. I think it would be a shame to be spinning too fast just because the pitch range is to small, I prefer to improve the pitch range.

+/- 11° (or maybe 12) is kind of standard I'd say, and I don't really understand why it takes so much messing around to achieve on the 620SE (I'm a little disapointed for now on this aspect).

I bought the 620SE to improve my 3D, so I do want a descent 3D setup.
09-24-2009 03:19 PM
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Pistol_Pete
Elite Veteran
Location: Tampa Bay non-Buccaneer

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		+8 & -6 ???.

you should get at least 11 stock set up

they use the word "approximate" 12 degrees pitch.

obviously something is not right. re check linkages and programming.

yes the pins may be long for some folks but I would first get her in the 11 pitch range prior to cutting anything.

<><>...the lunatic is in my head...<><>
09-24-2009 03:34 PM
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HarveyR
Heliman
Location: France - North

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		Well, I'll recheck this evening. But if with a standard build of a stock 620SE you're getting +/-12 (or even 10) I really want to know how. I know it's written in the manual, but it seems impossible without some work.

Please take a look at my first post in this thread where I comment on the fact that the rod lengths in the manual seem quite wrong (and the pictures in the manual support this). Also, someone confirmed (still in this thread) that "I should forget about the rod lengths in the manual as they are far out"

For now I haven't even linked the servos. I'm just pushing the swashplate up and down trying to get a descent pitch range (I'll add the servos to the equation later, once the mecanical limits are OK), so programming isn't part of the problem yet.

If people confirm they're getting +/- 11 by following the manual, I'll post some pics so you can try to look and see if you can tell anything is wrong.

PS : What's this supposed to mean (page 17 of the manual) : Note: All dimensions are in millimeters and are measured from the centers of the control balls or ball ends
Is it the center or the ends???
09-24-2009 03:43 PM
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Blade_Master1
Elite Veteran
Location: Canada

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		Center

F-27
MSR
Terminator Raven
NX Pro
Raven50
K50
HawkPro(~rip)
Swift 550
09-24-2009 11:55 PM
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Blade_Master1
Elite Veteran
Location: Canada

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		I adjust links to get full and equal travel in both directions then tune down the heli in my radio.

use the swash menu to prevent binding

F-27
MSR
Terminator Raven
NX Pro
Raven50
K50
HawkPro(~rip)
Swift 550
09-24-2009 11:59 PM
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HarveyR
Heliman
Location: France - North

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		Well, good news, it turned out quite well, as now I have approx -13 +12 and there's still some room for increasing if necessary.

But to achieve this I cut about 8mm of the guide pins. Yes 8mm, not 2 or 3! And the pins still come 3/4 (three quarters) down in the washout at lowest pitch, so no chance of them popping out (and this is at -14, which is nonsense anyway, with swashplate 1mm from low profile clamp).

Also, I couldn't use some of the provided rods (D and B, see p17 manual), they were simply too long, couldn't get the links short enough (the plastic ball joints broke from screwing too much). I've not measured but I must be very far from the values provided in the manual.

Overall, I found all rods were too long. Even the ones from the servo/bellcrank are just about fully screwed.

At some point, I was wondering if it was possible I had the wrong main axle, as all the links seemed to long, maybe my main axle is too short, I'll check this after first crash.

So... this evening I'll be fine tunning all this to something like +/-11 (or 12) and they're should still be some room for cyclic movement even at extreme pitches. I'll check no binding etc.

Still some minor things to finish (LiPo straps, securing Gyro, fine tune end-points, assigning TX switches, ...), but no doubt now, it'll be ready for Saturday test flight!
09-25-2009 08:22 AM
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Pistol_Pete
Elite Veteran
Location: Tampa Bay non-Buccaneer

My Posts This: Topic  Forum
Quote 
Well, good news, it turned out quite well, as now I have approx -13 +12 and there's still some room for increasing if necessary.

But to achieve this I cut about 8mm of the guide pins.

wow.

by the way...what method did you use to insert them all the way?

<><>...the lunatic is in my head...<><>
09-25-2009 08:49 PM
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HarveyR
Heliman
Location: France - North

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		Sorry, I don't undertstand... the pins were already fully insrted into the "pin holder". I just had to cut the pins.

Did my first two flights today, went really great, the time spent on the bench payed out as I didn't need to adjust anything at all! Tracking was perfect and trimming was as good as could be.

Question: Do you lubricate the gears and belt? If yes, what with?
09-26-2009 06:24 PM
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Blade_Master1
Elite Veteran
Location: Canada

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		I use silicone spray on the belt not so much on the gears
any oil on the main gears will attract dirt

With the head and tail blades off I spooled it up to check for vibes
holding the tail boom I could feel heat which got hotter with the throttle
I sprayed the belt with silicone spray and the heat disapeared

So I believe it is necessary to lube the belt a little bit before each flying session

Of course there are more veterans here that may know better or have a better answer for you



F-27
MSR
Terminator Raven
NX Pro
Raven50
K50
HawkPro(~rip)
Swift 550
09-26-2009 06:34 PM
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HarveyR
Heliman
Location: France - North

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		OK, so you Lubricate the belt only, and before each flight...

A bit of a burden all the same... I'm curious to know what others are doing. Some experts around?

In the manual they say nothing about oiling the gears or belt, so for now I think I'll stick with that.
09-26-2009 08:29 PM
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e-Century Hummingbird - Swift > Swift 620 SE Build question
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