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Safety - RC Helis are not toys > Lipo explosion on public transport
 
 
jago_svensson
New Heliman
Location: Zurich, Switzerland

My Posts This: Topic  Forum
Hi.
I had a little mishap yesterday evening.
Was coming home from a short flight from outside Zurich.
I packed my batteries 6 x 6s 5000mah in my wheel bag, and went on the tram.

About half way home I smell something a bit strange, and a few seconds after I was small smoke coming out of my bag. And a few seconds after that hell broke loose. The big black bag started to puff, and it was filling the tram with black smoke, I paniced and tried to get the door open as i knew there was 6 more batteries in the bag, but we ware a few meters from the stop, when the tram finally opened the door (it feelt like a eternity, but in reality I think it was 15 sec or something), I threw out the bag. and emptied all on the street, a burning liipo and all other lipos, also the transmitter for my camera mount, and my downlink reciever and display, and a big set of tools, and other equipment. All half melted together with the bag. I managed to get away the burning lipo from the other liops. There ware quite lot op people watching me picking my toys of the street :-)

I have no idea what happened. It was completely new lipo, just charged once, never used. The cables ware ok, and in the ends there was shrink tubing, and it was not all ok, so I do not think the leds did touch each other. Only reason I can think of is that some sharp edge of something would have punctured the pack, and started the reaction.

Well, now itś of to buy a metal box for my lipos in the future, was a experience I do not want to have again.

But the thing what I see the bigest problem is the smoke, the fire is easy to prevent with a lipo bag, but having this smoke, on a train, or even in a car, is not nice.

Well, hope you other have better luck.

Br
Jago Svensson
08-25-2009 08:33 AM
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MutantGarage
Heliman
Location: Texas, USA

My Posts This: Topic  Forum
Wow, you're lucky you weren't on the UK Tube, some cop would have shot you. In the US, it would have been a fellow passenger.

Maybe something sharp in your bag punctured a lipo wrapper?
Keys or a screwdriver, or a sharp corner on some other bit of gear.

Good idea to keep your batteries in a separate bag to protect them and to pull them out if one starts to puff up and smoke.
08-25-2009 07:31 PM
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jrockstuart
Elite Veteran
Location: Allen, Texas

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Yeah, if you were in Texas on the train someone most certainly would have shot you.

My biggest question: What brand lipo was it?

BTW: Ammo Cans make great lipo storage safes.

MinAir Spectra-G
Trex 450Pro V-bar /Scorpion /JR
Wally Motors/New England Heli/DL Canopies
08-27-2009 07:43 PM
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chopper_crazy
Elite Veteran
Location: Delphos, Ohio

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I could only imagine the type of news that would make on CNN. I guess at least it is media coverage for the hobby.
All kidding aside, I hope everyone was safe.

It's a complex, costly, glow powered anti-gravity machine!
08-27-2009 08:01 PM
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jago_svensson
New Heliman
Location: Zurich, Switzerland

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Is the world really this crazy?
I mean, I would never even get the idea in my head that someone would shoot me for a broken battery. I guess I´m too naive.

The battery was a brand new Turnigy Lipoly, never used, only charged.

For the lipo bags, It would not really have changed the situation, the bag of 4mm glas-fiber can stand a lot of fire before it burns true. There was some burn marks in the bag, but not even close to making a hole. The problem is the smoke, that in a few seconds it could fill a room, etc.

/Jago
08-27-2009 08:30 PM
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GyroFreak
Elite Veteran
Location: Florida ... 28° 52' N 81° 16' W

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Quote 
Yeah, if you were in Texas on the train someone most certainly would have shot you.

Why do you say such scare tactics. Even if somebody thinks it's a bomb, start shooting will do no good. Come on guys, don't make the world think we are all armed and will shoot anybody with a smoking luggage bag.
.
Statements like that add fuel to the anti gun lobby.

Bacteria They're the only culture some men have
Growing old is mandatory; growing up is opti
08-27-2009 08:37 PM
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MutantGarage
Heliman
Location: Texas, USA

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Sorry , not wanting this to devolve into a US gun rights thing..

But, given the state of hysteria, it's quite possible a smoking LiPo could be mistaken for explosives. Then of course there is the actual danger these things pose in confined spaces like aircraft or transit vehicles. This brought to mind two incidents, the UK tube shooting and the Richard Reid 'shoelace bomber'.

Your reaction is to get it out of your bag before it starts the other ones on fire or damages your heli, from the point of view of someone who does not know what's going on, you are reaching into a bag for square foil wrapped objects with wires sticking out of them and possibly a radio control. There's smoke, maybe some fire. That looks really bad.

I would keep them on top of any bag, and separate where you could
grab them and not have to root around in the bottom to find them.
Also, announce to the people around that your 'toy' heli/plane battery has shorted out and you want to get it out of here, or into a metal can or someplace where it can't damage anything.
I'd be surprised if the TSA let you bring raw LiPos on a US plane, for safety.
09-01-2009 07:12 PM
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ShuRugal
Senior Heliman
Location: Blacksburg, VA

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TSA actually requires LiPo batteries be in carry-on luggage under constant supervision of the owner, since having them anywhere else is a severe fire risk. Don't quote me on the specifics, but i seem to recall reading that somewhere while researching LiPo tech.

AMA 700159
09-01-2009 07:21 PM
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jrockstuart
Elite Veteran
Location: Allen, Texas

My Posts This: Topic  Forum
I would like to know more about traveling on a commercial airline with lipos. For example, if I wanted to fly to IRCHA next year on Continental or Delta, could I take my helicopter and batteries with me on the plane? How many batteries could I take? How do I pack them?

MinAir Spectra-G
Trex 450Pro V-bar /Scorpion /JR
Wally Motors/New England Heli/DL Canopies
09-01-2009 08:38 PM
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jago_svensson
New Heliman
Location: Zurich, Switzerland

My Posts This: Topic  Forum
Hi.

A few weeks ago i did fly with KLM / SAS from Switzerland to Sweden.
two weeks in advance i applied for a dangerouse goods paper from the airline and it was accepted for 6 lipos of 5ah each.
When i got to the airport, I was stoped with the lipos.
After about 2 hours discussions and phonecalls, i could check in 2 lipos (MAX 160WH total)(we ware two persons), i could NOT take in the carry on lugage. The others i had to store at the police.

On the way back from sweden, i again had two hours problems with the two lipos. And there the conclusion was that i can absolutely not check in the batteries that they have to be in my carry on lugage.

So conclusion was to buy a gasser for AP work abroad :-)

Take care
/Jago
09-01-2009 08:44 PM
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desulli
Senior Heliman
Location: Panzer Kaserne, Germany

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I had a thread on this a while back. Heres the link to it.

Sure there's more than one way to skin a cat, but only one way thats funny every time.
09-02-2009 09:28 AM
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bexusflexus
Senior Heliman
Location: Tulsa, OK

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Wow that was very interesting. Thanks for sharing! Sorry to hear you lost so much equipment.

I have heard all kinds of horror stories about house fires and such here in the US caused by LIPO batteries. I think much of this is contributed by the fact that manufacturers are starting to put these batteries in everything RC. Parents don't even know that their kids are playing with toy airplanes helis, etc. that contain these batteries. Moreover, most people don't know what kind of danger they pose. I once heard of a dog biting into one and causing it to puff. Extreme care is required. So far, I have never had one go off, only puff. I hope to keep the luck going, but I do have them in LIPO bags. But sheesh if one 6S battery goes off they will all go off. What a loss that would be...

even not doing anything would have been better than nothing...
09-11-2009 04:19 AM
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Bruchpilote
New Heliman
Location: El Paso

My Posts This: Topic  Forum
I saw a li-po go up in flames at our hobby shop, Looks like u got lucky. I like the Idea with the ammo box, have lots of guns and many metal gun boxes. thanks, good idea, stay safe and fly often
09-13-2009 03:13 AM
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FlaG8r
Elite Veteran
Location: Florida

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I considered storing my lipos in an ammo box at one point, but then thought it would suck for all of them to burn up in the box together.

Life is tough, it's tougher if you're stupid
www.jaxrc.com
09-13-2009 03:30 AM
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jrockstuart
Elite Veteran
Location: Allen, Texas

My Posts This: Topic  Forum
I store all of my lipos in .50 cal ammo cans.



MinAir Spectra-G
Trex 450Pro V-bar /Scorpion /JR
Wally Motors/New England Heli/DL Canopies
09-13-2009 03:38 AM
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Vibe Ration
Senior Heliman
Location: Mont-Laurier, Qc, Canada

My Posts This: Topic  Forum
Thank you Yago!

After your story, here is what I've bought a couple of hour ago! Maybe you saved my house!

If it can protect fire from outside... it probably should protect from fire inside! hahaha



Vibe 50, Gaui 200EX, DX7se
09-14-2009 12:38 AM
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FlaG8r
Elite Veteran
Location: Florida

My Posts This: Topic  Forum
Only problem with that fire safe is that if one goes up, they all blow up. And a sealed safe might not be safe once they all start to combust.

Life is tough, it's tougher if you're stupid
www.jaxrc.com
09-14-2009 01:24 AM
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Vibe Ration
Senior Heliman
Location: Mont-Laurier, Qc, Canada

My Posts This: Topic  Forum
but I am not sure we can find a ammo box here in Canada! I think I'dd be arrested with such box in my car! LOL

Vibe 50, Gaui 200EX, DX7se
09-14-2009 01:57 AM
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howlingriffon
New Heliman
Location: Navarre Fl and Eagan MN

My Posts This: Topic  Forum
TSA and LiPo's

http://safetravel.dot.gov/whats_new_batteries.html

I regularly fly with two batteries in my carry-on bag and the heli as checked baggage. Be prepared to have the wonderful TSA guy hand search and run the sniffer through your stuff. This is domestic US travel, I have no idea what regulations international would be.

Not so good at flying but getting really good at rebuilding
09-14-2009 01:37 PM
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brandov2
Senior Heliman
Location: queen creek az us

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Was it fully Charged? Or empty? Just curious sometimes I worry about Leaving lipos in my house heard horror storys..
09-14-2009 05:36 PM
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Safety - RC Helis are not toys > Lipo explosion on public transport
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