RunRyder RC Helicopter Topic - Who flys a 231?

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Gasser Model RC Helicopters > Who flys a 231?

Billme
Elite Veteran
Location: MS

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I want to hear more feedback on this engine...Tell what you think, or don't like about it....Also, let us know how you run it, and in what machine...I'm thinking about making some changes to this engine and would like to hear your input.. I'm currently hunting a better plug...This may take a while..I'm waitng on NGK to call me back...I'm going to try different plugs heat ranges, and reach....I have said before about the 643 being smooth in a hover, that was on the old G23...On the 231, it wants to run to lean, and if you correct for this, the low needle always over shoots...I'm going to try the 603 later if I can't correct this with a plug...
Thanks,
Bill

07-03-2003 Over year old.

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MikeS
Senior Heliman
Location: So. Calif.

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Hi Bill, I should have mine flying this weekend (fri. if all goes right). It's been about 8 years since I flew gassers, so I'm going slow. Once I get it in the air it might be a different story.

....I've been flying bergens with YS 80's and 91's so I think I'll have good input on the P/W issue.

Mike

07-03-2003 Over year old.

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ImRich
Veteran
Location: Derry, NH USA

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Hi Bill,

Thanks for the notes. I still don't have a 231, but I've been trying to learn about my 230.

I still have the stock 167 carb. I know, crazy me!

I can't seem to determine if I should adjust the low needle or the high needle to clear up a slight bobble in the engine in a hover.

I'm running coleman fuel and 80:1 amsoil and the MinAir SS muffler (not the stock muffler).

I keep trying different settings on the high needle and the low needle. When I get it to run smooth, the low needle seems a bit lean. I can tell this as I try to accellerate the engine and I get that 'lean lag' feeling. When I have the low needle set right to avoid the lean-lag, I seem to get the hover bobbling.

After I solve this I'd like to figure out how to ideally setup the high needle for full throttle. At +10 pitch it climbs out ok, but I seem to hear the head slow down a bit. I'm not sure if I'm just hearing the engine load or the head slowing down as I don't have an optical tach. I am running the Futaba GV1 governor, so the throttle should be controlled ok if possible.

Let me know your thoughts! You seem to have a lot of experience with this setup.

Please don't tell me to get a new carb! I'd like to sell the G230PUH and get a G231PUH before I spend money on a carb for the 230.

It runs well otherwise! I can loop/roll without any issues or cut outs.

---
Rich

07-03-2003 Over year old.

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Billme
Elite Veteran
Location: MS

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Thanks Mike S, I'm looking forward to your thoughts...

Rich,
Your needles should be around 1 1/8 on the high, and about 1/32 from 1 1/4 on the rich side running the 167A...

Just lean the lowend til it hobbles

just a little bit, if the engine doesn't have much time on it...When the rings seat, this should go away..

What your hearing most likey is the engine loading, this is good...A gas engine wants load without to much rpm drop...
Your high is most likey optimized. It is in most cases, but you can go to 1 turn on the high, any lower , your on your own...To set the high, if you hear the rotor speed bleed off quick, you'll know your to lean...It will just slowdown and stop according to how long you hold it there...
I have always adjusted the low needle for hover, and the high just for high...
If its running well under load, and the engine has lowtime, then just put time on the engine...It takes 5- 8 gallons before they get broke -in using this oil...
Sounds like your doing good..
Regards,
Bill

07-03-2003 Over year old.

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Billme
Elite Veteran
Location: MS

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on my 231

You know I got to thinking ...With the 230RC the zimmerman exshaust was increased in volume slightly for the new engine...Since my low needle is so sensitive, it may have to much backpressue using the older zimmerman bolt on the back muffler...I'm going to mount the Bergen muffler on it, to see what happens...It seems to have pleanty of volume..
Regards,
Bill

07-03-2003 Over year old.

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ImRich
Veteran
Location: Derry, NH USA

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Bill,

Thanks, I guess I've been doing it right. I Seem to get a little sag at full collective after a long climb out, but I can't be sure if I'm hearing sag, or doppler! This thing climbs fast!

I was doing some pretty aggresive things tonight and it's running just great. No engine misses and it certainly has the power.

Now I just need a HH gyro and some carbon blades and new paddels and I'll be back above my head again!

Good luck with your 231. I'm anxious to see how it works out.

---
Rich

07-04-2003 Over year old.

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Billme
Elite Veteran
Location: MS

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My problem was not the engine...It was the maingear...The auto clutch was dirty I guess...I took it off and cleaned it. My tail shakes went away...It needs to be beefer for the gas machine...I'm sure the constant drive system is probally better from the looks of it
BTW, I put the Bergen muffler on this time out.. It does the job, period
I like the fact they change the mounting system to studs, with nuts..I used high temp red silicone on the threads, and it hasn't come loose yet...I also like the sound of it...Pretty cool

This muffler has allowed me to keep running the camper fuel in the hot weather....The zimmerman was putting a little to much back-pressure on the engine, I guess

Zimmerman needs to update their bolt-on back mufflers for the Xcells, and Bergen machines for the newer engines like they did for the Varios with the new RC230...

The 231 is doing fantastic right now...
Bill

07-07-2003 Over year old.

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ImRich
Veteran
Location: Derry, NH USA

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Bill,

How is your 231 coming along? I have one on it's way to me (I broke a motor mount on my 230). How convieniet!

What break in regimine did you follow, how many gallons have you burned so far and would you say it's broken in yet?

I'm considering breaking in on 40:1 amsoil... then after 3 gallons switching to 50:1 and perhaps at 6 gallons moving to 64:1, and see how it works there. I may even ease into 80:1 if I feel it's not running smooth.

I'm still using coleman camper fuel, so I may stick with this.

I'd appreciate hearing how your engine is doing and what recipies you followed.

---
Rich

07-17-2003 Over year old.

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Dr.Tim
Key Veteran
Location: Mojave Desert

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G231PUH

Hi Bill, How have you been my OLD Friend? I run my 231 with 50:1 Belray HT1 Synthetic (About 2 1/4 oz. per gallon) Needle settings are 1 3/8 low, 1 1/8 high ---- I have about 4 Gallons through this engine in my Bergen and love it! I was running lean at first but, after I got one of those temp guns I was able to richen till I have a head temp of 185! She runs real smooth at these settings ... Very HAPPY Engine

(By the way .. I took 2nd in Scale Helicopters at the Nationals!! Only 9 Points out of 1000 behind Peter!!)

Dr.Tim

From Simple minds come simple ideas! Starwood Models, Approach Engineering .

07-17-2003 Over year old.

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BIGRCR
Veteran
Location: Easley, South Carolina

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Bill,
I will see you this weekend in Birmingham to compare notes on the 231 and pick your brains for info!

I will be there around 11:00 AM Friday. See ya' there!

Dr. Tim. Congratulations!!! I would have liked to have been there myself!

Later,

BIGRCR- John Garst

07-18-2003 Over year old.

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Billme
Elite Veteran
Location: MS

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imrich,
I follow my own directions, hehe

Using 100:1 mix at those ratios might be to much. What I recommend is 50:1 for a half gallon...You want to idle eight ounces for the first crank, then run a whole tank on the ground at operating rpm with out loading the engine..
Then just fly around for the rest of the half gallon, with no stress and mimimize long hovering periods...Your next gallon can be 64:1 (two ounces), and keep it rich...Don't lean it out to much to get the tail wag out...You want the tail to wag once every 10 seconds or so..indicating a rich condition...Running camper fuel will have less tail wag during break-in...
After two gallons, I'm letting her rip tatorchip on mine, she is still holding together..
I personally break-in the engine on the amount of oil I plan to run, but I know what I'm doing (I think?) ..What i have told you has been done tried and true by other pilots also...To me the idle, and the first gallon is the most important....Sorry about your engine mount

Good luck,

Dr Tim
My good friend, congratulations on the Nats...I knew you had it in you to do well

Those needle settings sound really good, and the temp is right on...I may have to re-study the Bell Ray..That is a very good oil...Don't change a thing, so I can look at your engine the next time I see you...I'm planning on going to IRCHA next month To see all my friends...I hope your planning to go too, so I can hear those fantastic points of views you have

Many Regards,

John,
I'm really looking forward to being there..I'm having a terrible gaulblatter (sp?) attack right now, but I'm still going....I'm planing on getting there sometime in the afternoon...Its according to when the A/C repairman leaves...Look forward to bending your ear

I had to take the Bergen muffler off because of the new SE front end...The MA doesn't make the power of the Bergen muffler, but it will do for my flying right now till I figure out what to do...
See you tomorrow
Regards,
Bill

07-18-2003 Over year old.

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Billme
Elite Veteran
Location: MS

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Tom, I would be more than glad to ....Did you ever put the new carb on? The g-23 still has its place, and is a good engine with the new carbs...I'm going to put my old one on a J3 Cub, if my buddy doesn't hurry up and come get it

Bill

07-18-2003 Over year old.

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ImRich
Veteran
Location: Derry, NH USA

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Hi Bill,

Thanks again for your thoughts. I always enjoy hearing what other people have had success with.

My initial thoughts would be that idleing might not be a good idea as the cooling may not be enough, but then again I'll watch the tempurature to be sure.

My new engine comes in next week, I'll report on my findings also.

---
Rich

07-19-2003 Over year old.

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Lawso
Heliman
Location: Sydney Australia

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231

Guys,
I ran up my first 231 today.
I could not believe the horsepower that this engine puts out!
The brand new engine running rich was very smooth and very powerful.
Even running rich, it beat my 230 hands down, no contest!
It is in a Bergen Interpid, with Bergen muffler and Motul synthetic at 50:1 swinging 720mm V blades.
At 35% throttle, it is hovering at 5 degrees with a head speed of about 1600.

Lawso

07-20-2003 Over year old.

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Billme
Elite Veteran
Location: MS

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That sounds about right Lawso ...I'm running the same engine blade combo...Running 1650 at 37 % throttle at hover...I'm beginning to think it has more power than the 91's

Maybe we can get some more feedback from others too...
Thanks,
Bill

07-21-2003 Over year old.

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henry caldwell
Senior Heliman
Location: SOUTH CAROLINA

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My Daddy BILL!!!! What's up pimp??

I had the chance to put John Garsts through it's paces sunday. Man that thing has tons of power. I was flying it just like i fly my 91's and it was flowing very good. A fury gasser and 1 scale chopper may be in my future. You can count a fury gasser for sure.

I hate I missed the party the past weekend. I guess I'll save it for IRCHA..
henryc

07-22-2003 Over year old.

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Lawso
Heliman
Location: Sydney Australia

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231

Bill,
I'm glad to hear that it sounds right. This is my first attempt at setting one of these beasts up so I am happy to be in the ball park.
The one thing that I did notice is that there is virtually no lag on a collective input. I have flown an 80 sized heli that seemed to have a slight amount of lag on the collective. With this thing, it is virtually instantanious. We were running a 9253 servo on both machines on throttle.
I am very interseted to see how it perfoms when it is run in!

Lawso

07-22-2003 Over year old.

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Billme
Elite Veteran
Location: MS

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Henry C,
I'm so glad that you like it...What is so awesome is that its going to get even better, hard to believe huh? I would have give anything to have seen you put the pump to it, hehee
We'll get together soon, hopefully at IRCHA ...I'm doing some more stuff right now to optimize this setup as good as I can ..
Take care

Lawso,
hehe, you are entering the new world of tork

Thats the reason its instantanious...Now the trick will be to learn how to use it... It sounds like your doing all the right stuff...Hang in there...
Your running 9253's on throttle, it might be to fast when you start to do 3D...You want to match the speed of your pitch servo to the throttle, but if its working good for ya, leave it there

If you start punching it hard, it might hiccup on ya...If it does, let me know

Regards,
Bill

07-22-2003 Over year old.

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ImRich
Veteran
Location: Derry, NH USA

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Well, I'm starting to breakin my 231!

I got to burn four tanks already... I can tell it's breaking in even with only four tanks.

Yes, this engine seems smoother. I haven't noticed any more power, but that's because I'm not really flying yet!

---
Rich

07-25-2003 Over year old.

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BIGRCR
Veteran
Location: Easley, South Carolina

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Rich,
Be patient, but the 231 breaks in quite quickly. I will be begging for pitch very soon . You will notice a difference in power after about 3/4 gallon. ENJOY!!!!

Later,

BIGRCR- John Garst

07-25-2003 Over year old.

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