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Gasser Model RC Helicopters > Operating temp comparison / cooling statistics:
 
 
rbort
Elite Veteran
Location: Franklin, MA - U.S.A.

My Posts This: Topic  Forum
The numbers are in:

Flew two Spectra-g's this afternoon, both with Hanson G26's on the same fuel oil mixture, one with the stock fan with a century v3 and mine with the wally fan with the side mount zimmerman.

Here are the results:

Temp 87f, winds 10 to 15mph.
Temps checked hottest found carb side, temp gun pointed inside exhaust pipe as mirror finish body refected the temp gun signal and gave very low incorrect readings of about 130 to 150f.
Temps checked every minute for the first 10 minutes and then 5 minutes past the last reading.

Time / Spectra-g Engine stock fan / v3 / Spectra-g Engine Wally fan / zimmerman side mount

Landing 265 / 420 243 / 300
1 minute 244 / 335 215 / 173
2 minutes 224 / 282 182 / 130
3 minutes 207 / 252 171 / 113
4 minutes 200 / 219 158 / 102
5 minutes 191 / 199 150 / 98
6 minutes 179 / 179 141 / 95
7 minutes 168 / 154 137 / 93
8 minutes 164 / 151 130 / 90
9 minutes 158 / 147 125 / 89
10 minutes 152 / 138 120 / 88
15 minutes 127 / 115 108 / 86

Took up to 6 minutes after landing for the spit to stop sizzling on the century muffler, 3 minutes for that to happen on the zimmerman.

Took up to 15 minutes after landing before I could finally hold the century muffler with my hand infedinately without getting burned. Took 5 minutes after landing before I could do the same with the zimmerman. When I did do it, I noticed the zimmerman cooled to my fingers about twice as fast as the century did.

I did a second test just to verify what I'm seeing. In this case temp dropped to 85f and the winds died to calm. No wind fanning the helis after landing took longer for them to cool as shown here:

Landing 270 / HI (over 420) 248 / 310
1 minute 261 / 370 225 / 192
2 minutes 243 / 325 196 / 156
3 minutes 230 / 270 185 / 144
4 minutes 220 / 240 170 / 129
5 minutes 210 / 221 166 / 113
6 minutes 199 / 192 158 / 104
7 minutes 188 / 187 153 / 98
8 minutes 184 / 169 148 / 95
9 minutes 177 / 165 143 / 92
10 minutes 173 / 160 138 / 90
15 minutes 146 / 131 121 / 84

Conclusions of the finding:

1. No heat rise in either motor after shutdown. I didn't measure on the exhaust side, but I can tell you for sure on the carb side there is no such thing.

2. The century muffler holds the heat longer, thus slowing down the motor from cooling as fast.

3. The Wally fan is a sure winner, running the machine 22 degrees cooler at approximately 86f outside air temp. Wally please make more of those!

4. The zimmerman muffler is made of thinner stainless steel material, thus losing heat quicker to the air or even to the fingers once cool enough to hold.

This has been a myth busters report! The myth of temps rising after shutdown has been "busted" unless someone else can do a test and prove it otherwise.

-=>Raja.

1005 Gasser, G26 3DMax++, 2205+ flights
Spectra-g, G26 3DMax, 870+ flights
08-23-2009 01:42 AM
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jrockstuart
Elite Veteran
Location: Allen, Texas

My Posts This: Topic  Forum
Nice work Raja.

Nothing is as valuable as good, objective data. There is too much conjecture and speculation in this hobby, and the cure is good scientific research to support claims. You have done this nicely. Thank you.

MinAir Spectra-G
Trex 450Pro V-bar /Scorpion /JR
Wally Motors/New England Heli/DL Canopies
08-23-2009 01:53 AM
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Dr. Fibinotchi
Key Veteran
Location: Sioux Falls SD

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nice

Raja,

You and I agree on the Fan for sure. My motor was Sat Evenning at 193-197. This is much cooler than before as well as it smooths the engine out.

As for the soak I still disagree. And 'perhaps' when I did the test I was using the tuned pipe last year with a large amount of blade pitch doing circles on the deck. I came in and landed and thats when I noticed the temps where climbing. I have not tried this with the v4 muffler on and the new engine, but I know for a fact the tuned pipe runs hotter than anything else even with Wally's fan. Also note that if you did not load the engine hard in manuvers like I did and only lightly loaded or brieftly loaded the engine the fan would still disapate the heat faster than it could accumulate it by the time you landed.

When I get time tomorrow maybe I can do a little video and then switch to my old tuned pipe.

I do like that you get in detail when testing. This is super important when some miss the details.

-C

If you want others to be happy, practice compassion. If you want to be happy, practice compassion.
08-23-2009 03:49 AM
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jrockstuart
Elite Veteran
Location: Allen, Texas

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Quote 
When I get time tomorrow maybe I can do a little video and then switch to my old tuned pipe.

Let's see some video.

MinAir Spectra-G
Trex 450Pro V-bar /Scorpion /JR
Wally Motors/New England Heli/DL Canopies
08-23-2009 04:12 AM
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rbort
Elite Veteran
Location: Franklin, MA - U.S.A.

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You're welcome guys

I flew my normal way Cody, the way you saw me flying at IRCHA. Some 3D, some fast FAI manuevers with idle up 2. I think it ran as hot as it ever does with me, and I even threw in some ticktocs at one point but you know what I think the temp varies in flight it may have risen a bit then cooled back as I came in for a steady landing.

Why don't you redo the heat test with your v3 and see if you can find a rising temp after you shut down. I certainly couldn't today while checking on the carb side...

-=>Raja.

1005 Gasser, G26 3DMax++, 2205+ flights
Spectra-g, G26 3DMax, 870+ flights
08-23-2009 05:26 AM
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jrockstuart
Elite Veteran
Location: Allen, Texas

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[quote even threw in some ticktocs at one point [/quote]

The Spectra is not too heavy to tic-toc is it?

MinAir Spectra-G
Trex 450Pro V-bar /Scorpion /JR
Wally Motors/New England Heli/DL Canopies
08-23-2009 06:31 AM
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C.A.P.
Senior Heliman
Location: custer park IL.

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Raja I still do not under stand why your engine is running so hot, 270 to 425 degrees is that correct, It's to hot with the my fan or any other fan to run a test, Cody engine produces more power then the Hanson and runs almost 80 degrees cooler with the name cooling system, Why??, Did you check the Z-RC gaskets like I told you to do, To see if they are wet?, Something is making your engine run to hot, If you gaskets are leaking then most likely it will cause your engine to run lean in flight. And would cause the high temps you are reading As for the heat soak thing your absolutely wrong, Why? because your engine is running at the same temp as your crank and piston rod , piston, , (This heat soak thing happen on cars and trucks, and on almost everything that is cooled from the outside) The test is flawed because your engines high temp, To understand this you have to understand what you are cooling in the first place, The fan is cooling the the outer part of the cylinder only, Which is dissipating heat from the steel parts on the in side of the engine, So logic would dictate that if the heat source is on the inside of the engine and you are cooling the out , when you stop cooling the out side, The heat inside will dissipate to the outside, Heating up the cylinder again, But if your fan can only cool to the same temp as the inside you will not see much if any change, I have run many tests to find this out, With the best flow program made, I and I mean the best, That why may fan work good, until you study heat dissipation you are only guessing are how to test, And you are still spitting, You do not even know what temp your spit boils at, What in the world is spit saying any ways?? That how Ally mechanics do thing, I've was a pro to-engineer for the first 20yrs of my work life, then a master mechanic for the last in my own shop, then disabled from freon 11 So when I need to find out something, I read and study, then ask someone who is school, and every time I hear you say I spit to check temp, It drive nuts, You have a heat gun use it right, Read the instruction so you hold it at the right distance. First if you think It's not reading right, Use it as a reference to see if the numbers are changing, and time the dissipation, anyway yours test is flawed period, You tested my fan against Bergen in 70 deg weather and concluded they cooler the same, another flawed test, Wally
08-23-2009 07:29 AM
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rbort
Elite Veteran
Location: Franklin, MA - U.S.A.

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Comon Wally

Give me some credit here. You saw my heli, you watched it fly, and you said its the best hanson motor you've seen run. But besides this case, the numbers I listed above is what I came up with using my graupner temp gun. In the instructions it says its a 1:1 ratio so the device should be positioned as close to the target as possible. I'm placing it on the carb side and looking for the hottest temp I could find, and recording it above.

The 400 numbers are the temps inside the exhaust, read by pointing the temp gun inside the tailpipe. My engine numbers are to the right, the lower numbers. The ones to the left are stock fan numbers.

I'm not leaking anywhere, my engine runs perfect and you witnessed that. The numbers are correct, maybe your temp gun gives lower figures. I know what I get with my temp gun is CONSISTANT, as I've checked 3 or 4 other people's Spectras while I was setting them up in Delaware and IRCHA and they all read about the same, 265 to 270 in hot weather with the stock fan. Maybe your gun might say 220 who knows, I just know that's what mine says and with mine saying numbers in that range then I know its good for a non-wally fan. For your fan its around 22 degrees cooler in hot weather, 30 in cold weather last time I checked.

I cannot find ANY rising numbers on the engine after I shut it down. I'm sorry but the temp gun doesn't show it. Take a you-tube video of your heli after shutdown and show me rising temps and where you're checking to see that. I can certainly try it here too. I'm checking on the carb side because that's what you said to do, when you talked me into getting a temp gun. I did the spit thing for years and it always worked for me no problem never burned the motor doing it that way. Now that I have figured from a temp gun we have to argue about numbers? No I don't think so!

I'm waiting for your video showing temp rise after shutdown, and with the absense of it I'm going to continue to believe what I saw yesterday with two Spectra's - one with a stock fan and one with yours and no temp rise only drop after shutdown.

Jrock, no the Spectra is not too heavy to tic/toc, I'm sure Cody has some video he shot of him tick-tocking his gasser which he can share with you.

-=>Raja.

1005 Gasser, G26 3DMax++, 2205+ flights
Spectra-g, G26 3DMax, 870+ flights
08-23-2009 05:07 PM
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AceBird
Elite Veteran
Location: Utica, NY USA

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I can see where this is going ...

Wally I would guess that Raja's temps will be higher in general because the Spectra has higher gear ratio and the Zimmerman mufler will run hotter.

Raja you cannot really do heat experimentation with a hand held temperature gun to test for heat soak. If you used a thermal couple mounted anywhere on the head and recorded the data in real time you would definately see the rise. There is only so much you can do with toy instrumentation.

Now if you want to strap the heli to a deck and fix (not by hand) the temperature gun to a point and watch the run and stop you would stand a better chance of seeing what really happens. Anything else is bogus I am sorry to say.

Ace
What could be more fun?
08-24-2009 12:01 AM
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C.A.P.
Senior Heliman
Location: custer park IL.

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[quote]COME ON WALLY Give me some credit here. You saw my Heli, you watched it fly, and you said its the best Hanson motor you've seen run.


I have over and over in a post you gave wrong numbers and no credit to the power Cody's 27cc had over the your great running Hanson motor. A test that we both were looking forward to, If it turned good for you. You and I would be giving you credit, You plain disappointed me,wouldn't you be, You also said on RR that my fan & shroud caused your bulb to go dry on your Carb, this put everyone in a panic, thinking the engine would lean, and there was something wrong with my design, Cary kept posting he did not have this trouble,And he lives in a hotter climate. But you kept going on and on, When anyone could call up Lou at Walbro, even you, to find out the truth, At the show I saw your bulb, it did not go dry, you were using the same cooling system. Why?? because you were wrong. And you still have not posted it, I try to tell everyone it wasn't the system, it was the engine vibrations, But because of your loyalty to Hanson, no I mean Al. You kept saying it was my system, but because you said it, every one jumped on the bandwagon to no where, Then I get a call from you that my fan and hub destroyed your Hanson engine (because Al always will say It's not is engine. He did this to me over and over), and you said could see the center hole was out of WAC,(I told you I had some bad hubs come out so send it back, I posted it to), andyou said it also cause damage to your radio stuff and it's my fault like I should pay up, I ran every test I could that I could think on it, and even put it a spectra g, a week of hard work for nothing. because you did not check the hole with a dial indicator. And just wouldn't think it was the Hanson engine gone bad. YOU JUMP TO A CONCLUION, TOO FAST BECAUSE YOU AT NOT TRAINED. And you have did it to me over and over . (And never seem to come back and said your wrong), This trouble with the bulb. You will always have in time (sorry it causes no trouble at all) . With an engine with lash on the crank. In time it will ware the bearing and crank and this will happen. I have fixed this on the 27cc. I could go on and on about your posts here that are wrong about engines, but I'm stopping here,. I decided to open on this stuff because of what Cary said to me when I called him on the story he wrote about the fan,and my disappointment in you. I was humble by the story, So I called him thank him. He bluntly said do not thank him, because if the system did not work I would of not liked the story, So if I can be held to that standard so should you, and Yes Raja I do wish I could fly like you, but not the dangerous part, and yes you help a lot of people, and you do know how to set up a Heli Yes I saw your Heli, Yes I watched it fly, and Yes I said its the best Hanson motor i ever saw, how could I argue that, and yes you are like the song "so vain" at times, We all are a little . And so is this post. but you just have more of the cake . But you hold loyalty over honesty. So please lets get away from "Give me some credit here thing" because I have and always will. (when will you give the 27cc credit), but when your wrong your wrong. and that goes for me too.
So back to your test, the spit test is flawed, because water boils at 212deg at sea level, So why did you buy the fan. If that is what you are going by. How do you exactly tell your engine is not over heating if water boil at 212 deg, because spit must be close! and 212 is what the new fan cools at. how does this work?? how do you tell 300 degs, It seem to me you were just wasting your spit. Just because you've have done something for years and think you had no trouble. Well you are about the only one who has not. by the interest in the cooling system, But when AL and I were talking he said you had carbon build up, you said that was from break in which means you were over heating, corbon comes from running to lean period. but did not know it, how could you!!, and I know this was the only thing people came up with to test for heat before the heat guns, but that does not mean it was right , A lot of people left the Gasser world because of heat, So there was a big problem, you just live with better, So I,m not putting you down, Or else I'll a fight with Chris too,



]And I did not understand the test on the mufflers I think you are trying to say the Zimmerman is better then the Century because it cools down faster, Well that would be wrong, Mechance's know the important of keeping the exhaust port hot as long as possible, So all part near the exhaust cool evenly, that's why race heads and cars exhaust header a made to retain the heat so the valve do not warp, The same with these engine so the ring and piston do not (the ring also acts as the valve in these engines), Although the chances are smaller, but still there.
[


( I'm NOT GOING TO TALK ABOUT THE ENGINE Pulsing THAT CAUSE THE LEAK)lets get to why the carb side gets hot, The the fuel come in the engine and is mix with the air in the carb Venturi, Then through the insulator into the bottom of the engine cooling the lower case then into the transfer ports then pushed into the upper cylinder aimed to the carb side of the cylinder, this is the main reason the carb side should be the coolest. If the gaskets are leaking the mix will become lean in the insulator and will fire lean in the upper cylinder, making the carb side hotter, It should be cooler not hotter, then anywhere else on the cylinder, because of the fresh cool fuel mix coming in. When I have someone testing an engine, Checking temp, It is very important to do it one way for everyone, I use the temp gun to tune my engines because the cooler it runs the more performance the engine will have. This is what I do after running hard, Bring the down fast & land, Put in throttle hold, Then add full pitch to stop the blades fast, after stopped, Kill the engine, Turn HELI over and take reading at the bottom of the engine, between the 6 & 7,fin is the hottest, The heat soak starts the second after the cooling stops, If we all do it the same way then the read should be close. So you may of miss it with the engine being so hot in the first place, And not doing fast enough, This is how I came up with how much the engine is cooled by the fan because I watched the temps raise 40 deg hotter, IT CHECKS OUT BOTH WAYS, So check your gaskets, If they are wet, they are leaking, As far as the one gun reading not the same, I do not think so, but can happen! Bill has one of the best on the market and it read the same as my 125.00 one, which read the same as my 35.00 one which reads the same as the 2 25.00 ones Cody has, I told you this before you bought one. If it reads different then mine by 5 to 10 degrees, no bigger deal, but by 20 to 40 degrees, Start taking looking for a leak, So if you check it against a few other guns and the readings are the same, Then I would agree that is your temp are correct, and start looking for a leak, There are a lot of feed-backs of 200 to 210 degrees with the fan, Then again with temps like yours, I would check for sure to be sure. There is something making it hot. LIKE I said Cody's is 80 degrees cooler. SAME SYSTEM !! The guns can not be that much off. (I think I just won with longest post) post [Wally
08-24-2009 12:14 AM
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CitationX
Senior Heliman
Location: Danville, IN

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I NEED A WALLY FAN!

This post has pretty much worn me out! LOL

Good stuff guys! That is what the forum is all about...I think.

Wally - Just curious if you know if/when you may have another batch of fans and shrouds for the Spectra-G? I am in the market for one.

Raja - Can't say enough about my Spectra after the "annual inspection" you gave it at IRCHA. The guys at the field (mostly the old-timers...plankers) really like the way I fly and how convenient the gas/generator set up is. They think the idea of flying the pattern with them is kind of cool. I have resided to the fact that the hard-core on the deck 3D stuff is better suited for the young whipper snappers. I am amazed at how they can go from the sim to the real thing with little to no hesitation.

Probably the next thing I need to consider is a Zimmerman muffler like you have. The idea of lowering the dB level from my current V2 muffler is appealing. What the heck, why not just go with a 4-stroke gas engine and REALLY drop the noise but also raise the coolness factor at the same time! Hint...hint.

Thanks again,

Nick
08-24-2009 12:43 AM
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C.A.P.
Senior Heliman
Location: custer park IL.

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I still have not finish talking to Tim about the fan, When the move to Montana is finish we will finish, skycnc will be able to make them at less cost and faster then me I hope, WALLY
08-24-2009 01:14 AM
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C.A.P.
Senior Heliman
Location: custer park IL.

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Ok Cody call He is going to post a video that Raja wanted, let see if there is a any heat soak at all, and lets see if Cody engine is ruunnig cooler then Raja's with the same system Wally
08-24-2009 01:40 AM
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xcellgasman101
Elite Veteran
Location: WOODWARD, OKLA....

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WOW!!! Lets all take a deep breath, and have a sip of something cool to drink,,

Raja, I have seen the heat soak myself, I pretty much do my checking just like Wally, I fly hard, land quickly, and kill the engine, then full cyclic on pitch to stop the blades fast, then I check the third fin from the base (we all do it differant) on the bottom of the head, I have seen the temp rise, I have a Raytek Mini Temp gun, and it is very accurate, From what I get out of all this, is that Wally's fan works, and works pretty good, I did look into it when he first got started, and I thought it was a little high for me to try out at that time, Money is tight everywhere, and my house is no differant, I will be trying one as soon as he has them available again, or MA,, which ever,, Thanks guys, Raja, and Wally for all you do in the Gasser section of flying RC heli's,, Thanks for the input from you both,, and looking forward to More post with good info,, XGM/VGM

John Crotts
www.soonerhelicamproductions.com
08-24-2009 01:55 AM
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Carey Shurley
Veteran
Location: Orlando, FL

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I wasn't going to get involved here............

but then I thought why not.

Here's what I've seen before:

I do have Fluke 62 IR thermometer. As far as I know its pretty accurate. But the fact is I only use it occasionally because I really don't care about a highly accurate engine temperature unless

  1. I've changed something
  2. Its not running right, which will be pretty obvious


I use those little Venom thermometers with a little thermocouple. I wedge it against the cylinder casting between the 3rd & 4th fin at the back of the cylinder (where there normally isn't any air moving). Now, I KNOW ITS NOT HIGHLY ACCURATE!!! BUT, this is almost always on the model and in the same exact spot. It will provide a current reading against my baselines with the same gauge from any other day. And the BEST part is I can see the readout it while the model is hovering, under load.

I'm not going to make a video of this but I know if I land the model and immediately turn the motor off, the temperature goes up about 30 degrees or so and then immediately starts to go down. Every motor I've ever had has done this.

IF I let the model sit and idle for a couple of minutes (which I normally do), the temperature will go down while its idling and then the rate of decrease will get larger after the motor is shut down.

As far as the mufflers go, I STAY AWAY from them when they are hot because they always burn the hell outta me no matter what they are made of.

I don't doubt anything that you say though Raja because I've seen your models fly, I now they run and perform well. If your model doesn't "heat soak".......then it doesn't.

I don't have any idea how the "wally" motor will run, I haven't seen it fly or even run. I have seen the "innards" though and it's incorporated some interesting ideas that I've never seen before on a motor for a model. I'm looking forward to seeing what happens with it.

In the interim I have some interesting motors that Alan at TRM has built.
08-24-2009 02:12 AM
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jrockstuart
Elite Veteran
Location: Allen, Texas

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Smallplanes owns a CNC shop and is willing to make Wally fans to any specifications given to him. I have seen his machining, and it is top notch. Wally: rather than waiting months for the new MA machine shop to take over construction of your fans, why don't you give Smallplanes a try for the moment. There are a lot of people who want one of your fans now.

I would like to see less infighting among all of us. There are not a lot of people in the gasser community, and we should try and be respectful to everyone.

I think what is more important than speculation is to have real, verifiable numbers. Wally, I admire your willingness to use a radar gun to clock both Raja's and Cody's helicopter. Raja, I admire your willingness to use a temp gun to test the Wally fan. While many can say the numbers are inaccurate or useless, this is a lot more data than we have had in a long time. Let's keep this up.

Also, I think we should make a rule on this forum. If you don't have anything constructive to say, then don't say it. OK? Can everyone agree to this one simple rule? We don't need some sort of split in the gasser community. Then there won't be anyone left to help the Noobies.

We all want to fly gassers which have the coolest running, highest performing engines, right? Wally has come along in the last year or so, and he has been willing to try and develop new products for all of us to enjoy. Al (at BH Hanson) simply bought a business from Bruce Hanson and has not really created anything new himself. I think Wally deserves a chance to prove that he has the stuff to "revolutionize the hobby" as he wants to do.

The biggest problem I can see is that Wally is not giving anyone a chance to try out his products. When only a handful of people have Wally fans and only 2 people have Wally motors, it is hard to get any sort of objective data on how it works. Wally, you have to be willing to put your neck on the line. If it doesn't live up to the hype, then you'll have to accept defeat. But if your products are really something special, then I'm pretty sure you will be paraded around on everyone's shoulders as some sort of hero.

MinAir Spectra-G
Trex 450Pro V-bar /Scorpion /JR
Wally Motors/New England Heli/DL Canopies
08-24-2009 02:20 AM
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greenboot
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Location: St Louis, Mo

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Today one of the guys installed a telemetry system with a thermocouple in each cylinder of the DA-150. I was watching the readout and it accurately follows the load on the engine so I know it was working well. When he taxied in and shut down, the temperature steadily dropped off. There was no rise after shutdown.

Tom
08-24-2009 02:28 AM
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xcellgasman101
Elite Veteran
Location: WOODWARD, OKLA....

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Quote 
When he taxied in and shut down, the temperature steadily dropped off. There was no rise after shutdown.


There is the problem,, He's not flying it hard, then land, kill the engine, as soon as it's on the ground, and I'll bet as soon as the engine is shut off, it will increase, when he is comming down to land and getting all that air over the engine, it is cooling it down before is ever gets on the ground, Our helis are allot differant, we can land quicker, and get readings sooner than you can on a airplane,, Hope that makes sence,, XGM/VGM

John Crotts
www.soonerhelicamproductions.com
08-24-2009 02:38 AM
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C.A.P.
Senior Heliman
Location: custer park IL.

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Cary, I'm not saying Raja's lying about anything I'm saying the way he's going about it is flawed, And just to jump in and say. This has been a myth busters report! When I know it's not a myth in the first place, Is going to bit him on the ass, You seen my stuff, Do think I just made that without researching crank and pistons, Cody called and said he's making a video with a friend. All it has to do is go up a few degrees, Then what will he say, I don't think He'll say show me how to do it so I can get to the same end. Cody's engine is almost what you saw in parts at the show, The Predator had it all, He ran 193 to 197degs flying hard in that heat with the same cooling system, If your engine with the same system ran with that much deferent wouldn.t check the gaskets, I forgot you have the system,But this is all new to him and seem to have a hard time adjusting to it, So what he has done for 10 year is going out the door, And how he going back to zero, and just is stubborn. HE IS ACTING LIKE, HE IS MY AGE, Or maybe Cody's engine is built better, and just can run cooler, and thank Justin I will talk to him, but there is still the shrouds, and I said I will wait, 2 weeks will go fast, Wally
08-24-2009 02:55 AM
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jrockstuart
Elite Veteran
Location: Allen, Texas

My Posts This: Topic  Forum
Maybe there is someone here who can do injection molded plastic work for the shrouds? There is a lot of collective talent here on Runryder.

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In the interim I have some interesting motors that Alan at TRM has built.

All I know is that we have Wally here along with the rest of us trying to design something so that we can all enjoy our helicopters a little bit more. I think he deserves a chance to prove himself.

MinAir Spectra-G
Trex 450Pro V-bar /Scorpion /JR
Wally Motors/New England Heli/DL Canopies
08-24-2009 03:03 AM
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Midland Helicopters . HeliProz . Ron’s HeliProz South

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Gasser Model RC Helicopters > Operating temp comparison / cooling statistics:
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