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Advantage Hobby . Revolution Models . CarbonXtreme

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e-Century Hummingbird - Swift > TREX or Swift, that is the question ...
 
 
HarveyR
Heliman
Location: France - North

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		Hi flyiers, I'm new to this forum, I'm seeking advice before buying my first 600 EP (I have 15 years of 30/50 NP, and do "soft 3D" (currently training fast backwards inverted flight)). I currently fly a Hawk 30 SE with 0S50, really pleased of it, that's why I'm considering century EP.

After some weeks of searching and trying to make sense out of EP helies, here's what I've come up with:

A TREX 600 ESP Combo and a Swift 620 SE Combo, both with everything needed to fly (at least I hope) except TX/RX/Charger/LiPos (which I have)

788$ for a TREX 600 ESP Combo including:

Align Trex 600ESP 3D Combo
Trex600ESP Base kit
Align 650L Brushless motor
Align RCE-BL100G 100A Brushless ESC
Align REC-B6X External BEC
Align Li-Polymer 7.4V 1900mAh 18C
Futaba Head lock Gyro GY401
Align 600D Carbon Fiber Blades
Futaba Digital Rudder Servo S9254
FUTM0222 S9252 DIGITAL SERVO
FUTM0222 S9252 DIGITAL SERVO
FUTM0222 S9252 DIGITAL SERVO


998$ for a Swift 620 SE Combo including:

SWIFT620SE + 9T PINION (6S Combo)
600A MOTOR (from 6S Combo)
80/100A ESC (from 6S Combo)
BEC (from 6S Combo)
THNDRPWR 2100MAH 7.4V RX BATTERY
FUTABA 401 GYRO
ROTORTECH 610MM 3D CARBON BLADES
S9254 SERVO
FUTM0222 S9252 DIGITAL SERVO
FUTM0222 S9252 DIGITAL SERVO
FUTM0222 S9252 DIGITAL SERVO

The price difference is approx 200$ (the 620SE kit is 150$ above the TREX, and the 610 mm blades are 30$ more, this explains just about the 200$ difference).

As you can see, they both have same Gyro/Servos and both use BEC/7.4LiPo setup.

The main difference is the Heli / Power Combo (Century for one and Align for the other), both are 6S, altought the Align motor seems "bigger" (650 Align against 600 for Century).



So... what is your impression on this ? I don't really know how to choose. If I find no other criteria, I suppose I'll just go for the cheapest (TREX). But what if the Swift is "better" (if for example it lasts longer, or has less problems with electronics, fixes easier, flies smoother, looks more unique, ...). I know people say the TREX is more 3D oriented, but then, I don't hear people saying the Swift can't do 3D?

If they were the same price, what it change much?

What I expect is a good flying hassle free heli to start in EP and to have a good time with it and continue improving 3D flying.
08-16-2009 09:23 AM
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Pistol_Pete
Elite Veteran
Location: Tampa Bay non-Buccaneer

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		I dont own a trex 600.

I have read in this forum where there "were"(?) issues with it as with any new heli until the bugs get worked out. One being cheap bearings. Many had to upgrade parts sooner than expected. I may be confusing the glow with the electric issues as well but they do share many parts.

Two hundred difference buys an extra battery in my book.

I would consider the parts availibility as a major factor given your location. Especially if you have flying buddies flying the same as well where a borrowed part can mean the difference between flying again or not.

Then there's the part where you already have a ship with parts that are common with the swift line per se.

Decisions, decisions.

Best of luck...keep up with the research.

<><>...the lunatic is in my head...<><>
08-16-2009 01:38 PM
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Git
Veteran
Location: Brunei

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		+1 on the parts availability factor since u said u are..

Quote 
currently training fast backwards inverted flight

ive seen so many helis end up as FOD (foreign object damage) on the ground..

Born to fly, forced to work
08-16-2009 02:56 PM
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HarveyR
Heliman
Location: France - North

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		Whatever choice, parts will be bought of internet, it's more convenient. I'm surprised to hear "go TREX" on the Swift forum, but it's true that 200$ differences is a lot.

Many people at HF have problems with the TREX stock electronics... this is part of the reason why I was thinking of going for the Swift, if I plug the TREX up and the ESC burns out taking the motor/LiPo with it plus damaging parts around, I thought I'd surelyt be in for a 200$ repair... so it kind of balanced with the Swift.

But today, I just read here about a Swift ESC going up in flames ! So this also happens with the Century stuff ? Does it happen as often as Align (looks like on Align, many ESCs burn out before first take off)

Whatever, this has learned me that I'll test the motor/ESC/LiPo on the workbenck before putting it in the Heli, at least if it goes up in flames first time I wind up the engine it won't damage the heli.
08-16-2009 09:06 PM
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jamesppp
Senior Heliman
Location: carrollton georgia usa

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		600 size birds are rough on 6S packs if you swing 60mm blades. 6S works great with 550mm blades. The Trex 600 is a pack killer on 6S but will do nicely on 8S or 10S

Al Austria has a build thread here I believe for the E-620 and is currently using 6S but is also onle using 550 or 560mm blades

If you go with the lighter swift I would think about getting a Scorpion 4025 series or the Century 650 size motor.

I dont have either of these but do get to fly a Trex 600 often. I have a Swift 16, Outrage550, Logo 5003D and 2TT Raptor E-620's...One flyer and a complete airframe. The 620 I fly on 10S and just flying circuits and flipping and looping and rolling I get 9 minutes. A capable pilot doing hard 5D with my Raptor for 5.5 minutes used about the same ma as my 9 min flights

Either bird will serve you well but think about the power systemm The T 600 is rough on 6S packs

#:>)*.......................*(<:#
08-17-2009 12:53 AM
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aramsdell
Senior Heliman
Location: Sanford, Maine

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		HarveyR,


Jury is still out on that flamed Swift . I also had one burn. Pretty spectacular. It was the 600+ motor shorting to the motor mounting bolts when motor guts turned inside relative to the mounting base of the motor. I suspect that is what happened to the one you just read of.
Swift 16 on 6S and a Scorpion 4025-1100 and 10 T pinion with 85 mm tailblades and 560 mains is what I am flying. If you are going to go 6S then the 4025 is the motor for you. In fact if you go 8S just choose a lower KV 4025. These are incredible motors.
This ship turns 2300 at start on a fresh 6S4900 Zippy Rhino. It is capble of so much more than myself and it is just FAST.


Maybe you don't need the 620 afterall...

Should've bought a sim. Got a bucket of used blades!
08-17-2009 03:53 AM
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HarveyR
Heliman
Location: France - North

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		Thanks for the info. It looks like most of you are in fact flying the Swift 16 with more or less "upgrades/power combos". Is the Swift 620 SE "simply" a Swift 16 with a load of upgrades (carbon frame and metal head and tail in particular) ? If so, can I buy a Swift 620 SE and get a Swift 16 boom/belt to fly it 550mm ? I'm quite happy and used to 550mm blade models (but I wouldn't like a long boom with short blades, it must look stupid, that's why I'd want the Swift 16 boom if I used 550 blades)

Whatever, I'm confused. All this started out because my good old Hawk is getting "old", loads of slop in linkages, 0S50 getting weak, ... And a guy at the field flies a stock TREX 600 ESP which looks just so great (loads of power (more than my 0S50 Hawk), clean and quite, nervous 3D, ...). So I thought "well, maybe it's time for me now to go EP too".

I started out just wanting to buy the same as him. But then I saw all this stuff about the Align electronics burning out, so I thought I'd see what Century stuff is like... Now I'm hearing that anyway, 6S is no good for 600mm helies, so I'd have to buy an additional power combo or downgrade my heli (TREX ot Swift 620 SE) to 550mm blades (which I don't really mind as long as it stays homogeneous).

Maybe I'll just end up buying a new Hawk Pro with OS 50 !
08-17-2009 10:40 AM
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Pistol_Pete
Elite Veteran
Location: Tampa Bay non-Buccaneer

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		Then its a "gimme", hands down...go with the Swift 16.

The century ESC issue seems to be operators error. When some complain they do not offer ALL the pertinent info but after reading that ESC manual, I just dont like it.

Personally I prefer the Castle Creations...the P-80 works for me. I have burned one (plug in batt backwards ONCE, nite flying) and it was replaced with a new one for $55 flat rate. That along with other factors has sold me on this brand.

Quote 
Is the Swift 620 SE "simply" a Swift 16 with a load of upgrades (carbon frame and metal head and tail in particular

longer boom and blades as well.

<><>...the lunatic is in my head...<><>
08-17-2009 12:55 PM
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imnxtc
Veteran
Location: Dawson

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		I have two Swift 16's, a Swift 550SE and the Swift 620SE.

I have purchased all as combos with the Century motors and ESC's. The Swift 16's and the 550SE now have over 1000 flights between them and have all performed flawlessly - including the motors & ESC's.

There are substantial differences between any of the Swifts. But the 620SE is very different from the Swift 16. It is a totally different helicopter. It uses very few parts that would be common with the 550SE or the 16.

If you want a heli that is even less money to repair then your Hawk, yet have a far better power to weight ratio - then go with the Swift 16 combo with the 600+ motor, 80A ESC and a 5S/4500 or 6S/4500 battery packs.

It can easily be set-up for sport type flying at head speeds of 1500 to 1700, that deliver longer flights or for some pretty hot 3D with head speeds of 1800 to 2100 which of course will mean much shorter flights.

It is truely a surprisingly low cost heli combo that is very versatile.

The 620SE is a top of the heap, no holes barred, fully blinged, high performance 50 sized machine that, with the 650 motor and 85HV ESC & 10S Lipo set-up, is like the Tasmanian devil on steroids.
08-17-2009 07:32 PM
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HarveyR
Heliman
Location: France - North

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		Thanks for this. I headed towards the 620SE initially because I thought that overall (heli, lipos, charger, power supply, TX/RX, ... = a budget around 1800$), the price difference between Swift16 and 620SE wasn't too significative. Note that I wanted to be 6S (I find that to fly confortably outside high and far 550 mm blades are OK but are also minimum, and to fly 550mm, 4/5S seems a little undersized).

Basically, my budget is going approx like this :

440W PowerSupply + 380W Charger = 550$

3 * 5000 mAH 6S Lipos = 300$ (second hand from friend)

Gyro 401/S9254 + 3*S9252 = 450$

RX/TX Futaba 10CG = 650$ (already bought this )

Heli + ESC + motor = 400$ for TREX 600 ESP 6S, 550$ for 620SE 6S, 320$ for Swift 16 6S

Of course, 200$ (between Swift16 and 620SE) makes a difference, but I think regarding what I've put in the rest, it's worth the difference. One thing I'm not sure of though, is the 620SE worth the 150$ extra compared to the TREX 600 ESP ? But no one has managed to help me much on this one...

If I already had all the stuff (power, charger, LiPos, ...) and was just looking for a "new EP trainer", it would be different, but here, I'm going to spend so much anyway, may as well at least have a flashy heli at the field (I mean, no one will ever see my super power supply and charger !), people will see my chiny 620SE !
08-18-2009 11:17 AM
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jamesppp
Senior Heliman
Location: carrollton georgia usa

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		The 620SE has tons of upgrades over the 16.

If you are going to use a Scorpion 4025 and spin 2300+ you have to have a metal head.

My Swift 16 happily flew 550 carbons at 2K with the blade grips but ...I was always a little worried so It has all metal up top now

Im happy with my 4020-1100 Scorpion motor and long flight times. I am about to put a Z-30 motor back in it as I have a NIB one sitting around. Ill get some eagletree data logged and compare to the 4020 Scorp. It had a Z-30 originally but I didnt have any data logging equipment then.

A Swift 16 is a great deal and very cheap to fly. Easy on batteries and the Century ESC's 80-100 and the newer 85-110?? are very robust controllers...Reading about isolated burns is basicsally meaningless..I see people flying with the bullet connectors between the motor/esc interface not completly covered by the shrink...and they are side by side, somtimes on a carbon frame If they touck.........it aint the controllers fault.

#:>)*.......................*(<:#
08-18-2009 01:38 PM
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HarveyR
Heliman
Location: France - North

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		OK. Got the message for the ESC burning out, so with the Century stuff, if I don't do things wrong, it should be OK (this doesn't seem to be the case with the Align stuff, it seems there's a high failure rate even for careful people).

For now I'm not planning on any fancy power combos, I'm just planning on starting off with the stock 6S combo. I'll see after if I think it's too weak.

PS : Century support really rocks. I just used the form on their site and got quick and detailed information about stuff, then exchanged through email. Really nice to be able to have direct discussions with the manufacturer, I'm not sure this is the case for all competition.
08-18-2009 08:52 PM
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Blade_Master1
Elite Veteran
Location: Canada

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		I don't know if you bought the heli yet
maybe consider a Swift carbon 550 with a 6S1P 25C 4000 mah with a scorpian 4025-1100kv motor and 9T pinion and Electron 80~100 amp ESC
should be insane


although you're estimate is slightly skewed
compare the kits and price not the accessories that are needed
the accessories can be tailored to your budget

F-27
MSR
Terminator Raven
NX Pro
Raven50
K50
HawkPro(~rip)
Swift 550
08-30-2009 12:43 AM
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HarveyR
Heliman
Location: France - North

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		Well... bought the heli but not got it yet... looks like it's stuck in customs for now, but it doen't matter for now, I'm still trying to figure out how to use the charger properly (see my other post)!
08-31-2009 12:07 PM
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e-Century Hummingbird - Swift > TREX or Swift, that is the question ...
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