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Main Discussion > The Ultimate Guide on what heli to get.
 
 
Dave_D
Key Veteran
Location: Philippines

My Posts This: Topic  Forum
Once in a while, people ask over and over what heli to get whether newbies or intermediate flyers and almost always, lots of us here get dragged into the same discussion over and over (which I avoid now).

Over the course of the hobby, I've met alot of people along the way and I always get asked what to get. Here's my order of building up your fleet;

1st heli (0-6 months into the hobby)

It has to be a 30 size, plastic, cheapest to repair and maintain, fuss free. Average flight capability. Don't fall in love it with by putting all the upgrades known to man, you want to use this heli to master hovering all the way to circuit flying. I don't care of you're a student or Bill Gates, money will not improve your chances to be successful in this hobby, only your time and effort will.

On a budget, put more of it in avionics, if you do decide later on the hobby isn't for you, you can recover more than springing for the best kit if you decide to sell it.

You can get what others are flying.

Get a sim. If you can't afford it, don't get a heli yet. If you can borrow one from somebody who doesn't use it as much, you just need 2 weeks worth of sim time (at least 30 minutes a day) to be able to hover.

Don't buy USED unless a seasoned flyer is helping you! It's hard enough without adding the previous owners problems to your learning.

6 months later, if you're still hooked on r/c helis, you are a good candidate for a 2nd heli IF you at least can do the following;

- side hover (left and right)
- hovering circuits (figure 8s)

2nd Heli (6 months - 1 year)

After flying for 6 months with a group, you should already be decided what kind of flyer you are becoming. Choose;

1. Builder/Flyer - Loves to tinker, set-up and tweak.
2. Flyer/Builder - Enjoys flying more than fixing.

For the Builder/Flyer, your 2nd heli may be that dream heli you've been ogling at the LHS, BUT be truthful about answering the following;

- If you do get it, are you prepared to FLY it AND Crash it? The last thing a r/c helicopter is a expensive conversation piece sitting in a corner of the house or hanging in the garage.

You need to hone your skills on how to make this heli the smoothest flying, hassle-free, start-on-a-dime known to man. It should shine!

For the Flyer/Builder, if you are already contemplating be the next Curtis Youngblood, you ask yourself;

- Can I afford the time, effort and money needed to excel?

What you want in the learning stage (loops, rolls, stalls, inverted) is a heli you can toss around in the sky with the best avionics package (servos, gyro) you can afford. The reason for this is as follows;

- Helis come and go. Avionics can be moved from heli to heli.
- A cheaper heli w/ the better avionics will outfly a expensive one w/ an average flight pack.

Since this is your 2nd heli, you want RELIABILITY above all else, your first heli is fine as a backup, but mainly you MUST choose this heli to excel on to master the basic aerobatic routines. I would stay away from exotic engine/muffler combos that require too much tuning. You want something that will start, and keep running no matter what maneuver at the expense of not having the heli that out-climbs or out-flies everything else.

At this stage, you shouldn't put off learning autorotations, if you plan to use this heli for it, make it cheap first by keeping it bone stock, if you plan to use your first heli, then get some extra blades and tailboom so you're mentally prepared.

Since I'm practical... If you can survive with 2 helis, I'm proud of you. You are a master of your desires and do not let them rule your decisions. You can then think about squeezing in another hobby and succeed in that as well.

Unfortunately, if you like most of us mere mortals.... read on.

3rd Heli (1 year onwards)

At this stage you should be able to do the following (flyer/builder);

- Fast Forward Flight
- Loops, Rolls, Stalls
- Inverted tail and/or nose-in hover.

If your still flying religiously (at least one day a week). What you're doing is "maintenance". Meaning, flying so you don't lose the basic skills you already know, you're heartrate will be constant althroughout your flights, no more knees shaking.

You're extremely confident in your skills and know everytime you take her up, you can pick it up and bring it to the pits in one piece after a flight.

Your next heli is going to be your "TREAT!" for getting this far.

Since you already have your 2nd heli which is like your most comfortable pair of shoes, you can;

- get that Vigor CS, Fury Extreme, Hirobo Eagle. Choose what your heart desires, no need to ask anybody else since by now you don't need to (you know better) and you've done your own homework. You should be giving advice to flyers now.

- get the best flight pack known to man (top-of-the-line).

- Get that 9z or 10x you want, skip the 3rd heli.

For the builder/flyer - contemplate your first scale project. Learn to paint. Complete your tools. Use your first heli to practice on to hone your building skills. If you're successful, your 3rd heli should be your entry into scale flying/competition.

4th heli (1 year onwards)

Flyer/Builder - start considering not getting 4th heli, but improve existing fleet with those exotic engine/mufflers

Builder/Flyer - consider charging other flyers for your skills or build that petrol scaler that will be the envy of the field.

I hope this helps.. It's a work in progress, please feel free to put in your comments/violent objections... etc etc...
02-28-2002 Over year old.
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1UP
Key Veteran
Location: Claymont DE.

My Posts This: Topic  Forum
HAY DAVE !!!! YOUR A ((HELI GURU)) where wore you years back when i was starting out ????
JAMES

JAMES
member of the HOT GIRLS thread?
If it's worth doing, then it's worth over doin
02-28-2002 Over year old.
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HighFlier
Senior Heliman
Location: Chicago, IL.

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Well done Dave,now the next time someone asks "which helicopter do I buy?" we need to just point to this posting. Nice job!!
Ken
Keep'm Fly'n
02-28-2002 Over year old.
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Buzzin Brian
Elite Veteran
Location: College Station, Texas

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That could have saved me some buckage in the beggining, to bad I didn't see something like this before I decided to make a FLEET of helis. But thats cool. I still like my goodies. All 5 of them. With another one planed for the future.

Build it, fly it, crash it. Repeat as often as needed.
02-28-2002 Over year old.
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Greg Takacs
Veteran
Location: Fort Worth, TX

My Posts This: Topic  Forum
I beg to disagree......

I'd recommend a 50 flavor of the new 30/50 models to start with. Startup cost is $150 more than a 30 size but the power will get you well into 3D, there is nothing that a 50 cannot do that a 60 can. Crash cost is almost the same as the 30 counterparts so it is still cheap to repair yet has a lot more safety net power in case of a messed up maneuver.
Autos a lot easier with a 50 size than a 30 size yet they are cheap if the auto does not go too well.

The way the market is ther eis not much point to get a 30 size machine unless money is really tight.

As far as radios go, why would you want a 9Z or a 10X? Again the 9C or the 8103 will do anything you'll need on a machine. If you want to show off, or you have to have the most expensive setup go and get a 10X! The best pilot at our field flies with an 8U Super and can do anythig.

If you want an expesive machine that you're worried to whack, go and get a Millie2, Vigor CS or Eagle. Otherwise get a Raptor 60, Fury 60 or a Freya.

And one more thing, I am a firm beleiver to get it right the first time so you don't end up buying a new heli every 6 months. If I'd have to buy 4 helis in 2 years I don't think I could afford this hobby.
02-28-2002 Over year old.
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Lwnemesis
Senior Heliman
Location: Seattle, WA

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I would dissagree with Greg on getting a 50 size first instead of a 30 a 50 size is more expensive to crash: Here is an real life example:
I crashed my R30 receintly, I lost orientation and it went in I managed to straiten it out at the last moment but the heli still hit the ground squarely on the landing gear it hit so hard the head compressed and flew off the main shaft the engine was still running and with no load on it destroyed itself. Now if it was an OS 50 thats a $150 for a new engine since it was a TT36 it only cost me $60 new. For newbies the cheapest is BEST.
02-28-2002 Over year old.
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Greg Takacs
Veteran
Location: Fort Worth, TX

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Compare apples to apples TT makes a 50 size as well that is NOT $150. Also burning up an engine is not a common crash item, so you can't really take that into a general equation with the same weight as booms spindles and flybars.

Also had you had an OS50 in it, you probably could have recovered it before it hit the ground
02-28-2002 Over year old.
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Dave_D
Key Veteran
Location: Philippines

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Hello Greg,

Thank you for your input, coming from you, it's a compliment.

I wouldn't count out the 30 size heli. There is a reason they were created in the first place. R/C Heli historians will note that 30 size helis came AFTER 60 size for a reason. Plus, the logic in my opinion is more a global view than one tailored for a particular market like North America where 3D seems to be what to strive for. Everywhere else, my view is valid whether your from Greenland or South Africa. Only North America is blessed with having relatively inexpensive glow fuel compared to anywhere else and 50 size helis are only a smidgen more economical than 60 size in terms of fuel consumption. Power wise, it's also nice to know the power is there, but sport flying does not need it.

I would only recommend a 50 size, only if you feel a 60 size is underpowered, and a 90 size too thirsty. I'd never recommend a 50 to a newbie. Even if he could afford for example a Sceadu 50, I'd push the 30 first till he gets to circuits, then spring for the upgrades because I know he will know and appreciate the difference.

FYI, since fuel costs around 30% more compared to what it costs the U.S. mainland, we teach our 60 size flyers to make each flight count, meaning not waste fuel puttering around flying circuits if they already know how. We use a 30 size for that.

In my case for example, when I was learning basic aerobatics, I would almost always finish the flight with the tank near empty. Nowadays that I am familiar with the basics, I can end my flight within 7 minutes since I want to "maintain" my skills and conserve fuel.

As for the 9z, 10x... I said it was a treat. Treat yourself what you want, not necessarily what you need. Deep inside, a modeler would want all the helis made in their hangar, but the purpose of the guide is just that... a guide which I feel will make your hobby practical, yet will fulfill your desires without driving you to the poorhouse.

Also, I don't espouse a particular brand or size. The 2nd, 3rd or 4th heli can all be 30,50 or 60 size.
02-28-2002 Over year old.
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Lwnemesis
Senior Heliman
Location: Seattle, WA

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No I could not have recovered in time even with a OS 50, it was descending way to fast the head would have separated from the heli in flight. Those damn plastic R30 heads are useless thank god I got a metal one now
02-28-2002 Over year old.
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Greg Takacs
Veteran
Location: Fort Worth, TX

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Dave_D,

I guess I do tend to forget that we're "spoiled" in the US with cheap fuel prices. In Europe they would fly 5% as that's what is the only kind that's reasonably priced (see not eye gougingly expensive). And YES the 50 would definetely drink a lot more fuel than a 30 size heli.

Current 50 machines don't differ from their 30 counterparts by much (blade, gear ratio, engine mount, boom length) and I think the extra power of these birds outweighs the extra initial cost and fuel consumption.

I wish I could afford 4 birds, however my budget (single income household, putting wife through college) does not allow more than one. It would be nice to have a bird to putt around with, one to practice 3D and a really nice one to take out on ocasions. However in my case the 50 was the clear choice, and for others who don't wish to (see can't afford) a new bird every 6 months a 50 is probably a good choice.

As far as top of the line radios go: I'd love to have a 10X or a 9Z, but see my paragraph above about how broke I am . I do agree that good electronics are essential and I would not recommend flying with 148s on the collective.

Your list is definetely a dream wish list for any heli flier, I was thinking with the head of a budget flier who wants the biggest bang for the buck and not a new machine twice a year .
02-28-2002 Over year old.
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Dave_D
Key Veteran
Location: Philippines

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Hi Greg,

So true....

So a nice poll would be;

How many helis have you owned your first year in the hobby?

I'd bet a greater portion would have at least 2 (if not limited by budget). The first year is EXTREMELY addictive and even if you did have just 1 heli, I would gather that most of the "upgrades" that people bought for their first helis when added up, could've bought a second kit if they kept their first one bone stock and just spent fuel.

My first heli was originally a shuttle ZXX and went upgrade crazy, ended up with an RG (from upgrades) that in hindsight, I could've had a stock ZXX AND a stock beginner 60 within 6 months if I just kept my wallet in my pants everytime I go to the LHS.
02-28-2002 Over year old.
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Greg Takacs
Veteran
Location: Fort Worth, TX

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Dave_D,

I've made the "hop-up fever" mistake in my R/C car times, so I was smarter with my helis. My Raptor was stock, except for the header tank that I've recycled on the Sceadu and the metal swash that it came with it as a bundle package deal from HeliProz. I didn't buy any hop-ups for it, I got a Sceadu 50 instead (I almost upgraded it to a 50 but luckily the Sceadu became available by then)

So for me, it was 2 helis within the first year, granted that I've sold the first one already.......
02-28-2002 Over year old.
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Dave_D
Key Veteran
Location: Philippines

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Why you should heed the guide.

Another backgrounder on my logic.

I watched 3 flyers (all learning stage, flyer/builder types) within the last 12 months. 3 of them still in the hobby, here's their setups after a year AND in order of purchase.

Flyer A - active

1 ZXX super upgraded ($700 for kit parts only), sold for $300
1 Vigor standard (currently crashed and unflyable due to cost)
1 Raptor 30 (currently only one flyable in the fleet)

This flyer has progressed well (loops, inverted), but does not have enough finances to sustain the fleet so started with great stuff, but gradually moved to cheaper and cheaper stuff due to the costs involved in maintaining top dollar equipment.

Flyer B - semi active

1 Freya 60 (currently hangar queen, too expensive to learn)
1 X-Cell 30 (currently hangar queen, too expensive to learn)
1 Raptor 30 (currently only one flyable and affordable to learn circuits).

This flyer has a good income and spent more, but unfortunately bought the helis in the WRONG order so I feel he's sticking with it to eventually earn the bragging rights to fly his first purchase. Still unable to fly solo circuits.

Flyer C - out of hobby

1 ZXX (bought used)
1 ZXX (bought used w/ FF7)
1 RG (bought used)

Flyer C is my worst nightmare since he didn't want to listen and kept buying shuttle parts over and over as if he was going to run out. Well, he's out of the hobby and I just trucked over all his stuff in my spare room, selling all of them, all in all he spent over $2000 for "average" stuff and still didn't prosper. I told him over and over to just stick to the stock ZXX at least until he could do figure 8 hovers, but NOOOOOOO he kept buying the stuff thinking it would help him fly better.

The 3 helis above used to be 1.. with all the upgrades into 1 super duper shuttle, when I assembled ALL the junk I ended up with the above list with a boxful of spares left to build 2/3 of a shuttle.

Flyer D - active (flies FFF and learning autorotation)

1 X-Cell 30 (currently still flying)
1 Vigor Standard (bought from yours truly, waiting in the wings).

Flyer D has been in the hobby for 18 months. He still comes to the field with both helis, but mainly flies his first heli (the X-cell) and only dares fly the Vigor ONLY with maneuvers he has mastered. This guy I totally admire, he has self control, has not had ONE SINGLE CRASH and in my opinion will enjoy this hobby well into his senior years. He listens to other pilots advice and is cool as ICE when he flies.
02-28-2002 Over year old.
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Ken B
Elite Veteran
Location: Phoenix, AZ

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Other type pilots

Dave, I really enjoyed your article. Great post!

I do believe in one other type pilot though. The craftsman, This is the guy who is into the scale machines.

I am the Mechanic, I love to put it together, take it apart tweak it, and so on. I have NO desire in the art of painting. I just want to turn that wrench. I fly as well.

I do have 3 machines but my reasoning is different. I have to order everything. I have them all as a back up to each other. Granted one is a slight improvment on the other. None the less if I had parts availible to me all the time I would most likly fly only 2... for now.

Ken B
02-28-2002 Over year old.
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Dave_D
Key Veteran
Location: Philippines

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Subcategories for builder/flyer

Volkul,

I guess the craftsman would fall under builder/flyer as well because after 12 months into the hobby, the builder/flyer will definately decide to fall under;

A. Team Mechanic who sets up for the pros or blueprints engines.

B. The Scale artist, those who wants to compete in Top Gun or make helis for use in the movie industry.

C. Aerial photography. Mixing business with pleasure is a good road to success. Do what you love and earn at the same time.

DITTO for me as well. Number 2 heli is my main heli which I fly almost exclusively. I only fly heli 1 a couple of tanks a month to prevent the engine rusting. It's my backup incase of a crash that I don't suffer withdrawal symptoms or lose my nerve to fly.

If my willpower allows, I will hold on for heli 3 until I can afford it lock, stock and barrel without breaking the bank. It will be my TREAT!
02-28-2002 Over year old.
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Michael_Fath
Senior Heliman
Location: Chugiak, AK

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Dave:

You left out one item under 4th Heli....

Start the interview process to find yourself a good Divorce Attorney.
02-28-2002 Over year old.
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Dave_D
Key Veteran
Location: Philippines

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ROFL!!!!

I know it seems kinda "showy" having 4 helis, but like what Greg admitted, even though he has only 1 heli now... it wasn't his first. The guide doesn't state you have to keep all simultaneously.

I only have 2 in the fleet at any one time. You can buy the 3rd heli and sell the 2nd or the first so your fleet is constantly improving (since you can fly them), yet keep the number constant and manageable.

Since I've been fixing 3 helis (not mine, but heli flyer 3's so I can sell'em) it's really tiring to maintain all of them simultaneously. This can be aggravated if you have different brands (TT, Hirobo, MA) in the same fleet.

I'll edit the guide once all the inputs are in.
02-28-2002 Over year old.
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volare
Veteran
Location: Cincinnati Area

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[]
02-28-2002 Over year old.
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RappyTappy
rrProfessor
Location: Las Vegas, NV

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I can say from experience that money is a BIG factor in the learning curve for helis.

My first year and a half flying helis was tough. I had extremely irregular little income coming in and only limited savings. About enough to buy a Ergo .30 complete and then some left over for crashes, fuel etc.. I didn't waste money on a sim because I just didn't want to spend the money on it, I mean that money was valuable part money! Anyways, I couldn't afford a HH gyro so I used piezo. I flew around for about a year and half learning only upright flying and stall turns(knees shaking all the time)

I got a job and had a steady income, bought a Raptor HH gyro, Super 8 radio and guess what. My flying soared! The confidence knowing that I had money to back up the heli gave me a real piece of mind and I could concentrate on flying the heli, instead of flying the money as I referred to it. Then I bought a sim and my flying was reaching new heights I thought I'd never get too.

This hobby is $$$$$ and there is no getting around it. There was times when my funds were just gone and I couldn't fly or fix my heli for months at a time. Really depressing feeling when I had to forcefully put away the heli in the garage for months. The simualtor gets old quickly when your not putting the new skills you learned on the sim to use in the helicopter.

Chris
Logo 500 3D Vbar
03-01-2002 Over year old.
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butch r
Senior Heliman
Location: Alma, Kansas

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I have to agree with Greg T on this one. Power, (50 size as opposed to 30) will get you out of trouble as a beginner before it gets you into trouble. I admit that opinion is based mostly on plank experience but it still applies here IMO. To get into trouble you must be under control to begin with, and the panicky throttle stick move to full extreme at the last moment proves benefical, (IMO) if you have more power. Besides, if your counting your pennies between the repair costs of a 30 size to a 50 size than you are going to be dissappointed anyway. I don't know about you but I buy things because I have done my homework and I have an alliegence to that product. Example, known fact, wanna go fast in a car in the USA, buy Chevy! Proven, aftermarket parts cheap, network of support, and besides the guys you are running with run Chevy. Best advice is when in Rome, do what the Romans do. My point is buy a heli that you can learn on, upgrade, run with the best, and feel proud to own. Why bounce around with helis that have different characteristics and never get anywhere with your confidence. If you don't, you will have, new in the package, parts for sale on RunRyder. Don't be redundent and wasteful with your money when it comes to choice of heli!
03-01-2002 Over year old.
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