RunRyder RC Helicopter Topic - Help! Mikado v-bar setup

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Kasama Srimok 90 > Help! Mikado v-bar setup

blingbling rapt
Heliman
Location: Sweden

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I have now assembled Helin after craschen and would like some help with v-bar setup what are your values, or perhaps someone can send me a complete file that works as you can only upload in Helin

my e-mail is richard.stenholm@jci.com

Richard

08-15-2009 06:33 PM

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jrockstuart
Elite Veteran
Location: Allen, Texas

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Have you tried any of the presets in the V-bar 4.0 file?

MinAir Spectra-G
Trex 450Pro V-bar /Scorpion /JR
Wally Motors/New England Heli/DL Canopies

08-15-2009 08:06 PM

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blingbling rapt
Heliman
Location: Sweden

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No which one should I take

Richard

08-15-2009 09:47 PM

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bathmagic
Veteran
Location: Berwick,Victoria, Australia

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Bling bling rapt

I have done around a dozen V stabi conversions, there quite easy.

Basically set up the electrics, center the servos and set it up via the V-Sabis screen

Its pretty self explanitory.
Just MAKE SURE you have the swash tilting the OPPOSITE way the heli moves.

What i mean is being a "Gyro system" when you tile the nose of teh heli forward (tail up) the swash should essentially add "backwards elevator"

adjust your throws on teh tail to get around 60-75 points in either direction and hav the gain at around 70 as a start.

Have te swash set up so the agilitys around 60-70 of the avalible "slide bar" on the settings page of your V-stabi.

Adjust the amount of pitch you want and then go fly it!

It is only guys that havnet had much experiance with it who struggle

Once you have done it it really is a 5 minute job at the most to set a complete machine up on the bench, ready to maiden.

let me know how you go

Dale

Australian Field rep for the "Kasama Srimok 90"

08-16-2009 01:26 AM

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jrockstuart
Elite Veteran
Location: Allen, Texas

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Just be careful playing with the I gain (the heading hold). If you get the value too high, the helicopter will develop a positive feedback loop and become uncontrollable. Don't ask me how I know this.

MinAir Spectra-G
Trex 450Pro V-bar /Scorpion /JR
Wally Motors/New England Heli/DL Canopies

08-16-2009 01:57 AM

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blingbling rapt
Heliman
Location: Sweden

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OK thanks

How much pitch and cyclic are you using on flybarless

Richard

08-16-2009 04:36 PM

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blingbling rapt
Heliman
Location: Sweden

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Why do I get more cyclicks when I get back from setup menu?
from 9 degreeds to 12

Richard

08-16-2009 08:53 PM

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blingbling rapt
Heliman
Location: Sweden

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Here is the other menu

Richard

08-16-2009 09:01 PM

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MB-PC
Heliman
Location: Libertyville, IL-USA

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BlingBLing-
How and where did you install the sensor, did you use the optional front or rear gyro mount? I'm using zeal with a strap without any optional mount. The tail drift is gone but i'm still having problems with mine, the rolls and flips are not axial, right now i'm increasing the tail and cyclic gains to hopefully make it feel more "locked in". I'm going to adjust these before i mess with the phasing. This is my first go with a vbar and FBL. I'll be watching this thread closely.

08-17-2009 01:45 AM

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blingbling rapt
Heliman
Location: Sweden

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MB-PC
I have now mounting the sensor as fr8brkr front optional gyro mount I hope this will solve my problem I let you know. This is also my first vbar and flybarless hehe I am little nervous this time hope I get it right. How was your first flight?

Richard

08-17-2009 05:55 AM

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bathmagic
Veteran
Location: Berwick,Victoria, Australia

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MBPC

If you have a non axial roll please check your sensor is 100% perpendicualr to the main shaft and 100% square to the frames, if its not when you roll the Vstabi will automatically add either an alieron or elevator input.

OR your phasing is slightly out

you will need to do a roll and work out wether is an alieron or elevator input thats being added and then turn the swash drive say 5-10 deg in favor of the OPPOSITE INPUT YOUR GETTING THAT YOU DONT WANT.
eg if its getting elevator you would need to turn the washout driver (looking over the top of the head) Anti clockwise.

something you have to fiddle with to get right

not all machines have the swash driver 100% perpendicual to the main blades

let me know if that sorts it out for you ?

Dale

Australian Field rep for the "Kasama Srimok 90"

08-17-2009 10:15 AM

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MB-PC
Heliman
Location: Libertyville, IL-USA

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Thanks for your advice

My first flight resulted in a right lean during spool up, I tried to correct, and the blades hit the ground, never got off the ground. I should have "popped it" off the ground a fast as possible without cyclic input. Blades were damaged, One main grip arm was bent. All the shafts were OK. On my second attempt, I got it off the ground but if was VERY unstable and wobbly, lucky I saved it. The cyclic gain was at around 30-35. As I increased it, the heli flew better. The cyclic gain is now high at 70 and the tail gain is at 100. Nothing's oscilating yet. I will remount my sensor as square as possible. When you mean "turn the swash driver" do you mean mechanically by rotating the driver on the shaft or by the vbar software? Right now the long control rods from my swash to the main gip arm is parallel with the main shaft. It looks like in you pic blingbling, the control rods are not parallel to the shaft, does this matter?

08-17-2009 03:09 PM

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MB-PC
Heliman
Location: Libertyville, IL-USA

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Here are some pics, bad quality from iphone.

08-17-2009 03:30 PM

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blingbling rapt
Heliman
Location: Sweden

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I do think it is wrong to have the long links paralell I also had this and I lost control on the heli when you take closer look at the swash plate it should be like this in my pic I did take a look at Git pic and he have the links this way.otherwise you dont get aileron or elevator on correct spot. please correct if I have missunderstanding this.
Can someone let us know the correct angle we should have on swash plate.
I have now 270-150-30 as you can se on pic below.
I dont have my on the air yet I still continue with all angle and stuff and I want it perfect and understand this vbar system completely before I get it fly again.
I still dont understand how I can get more cycklic when I return from
setup menu.
My first attempt was also very unstable and first time I did succes with a auto but not the second time.

Richard

08-17-2009 04:55 PM

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jrockstuart
Elite Veteran
Location: Allen, Texas

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The servo angle for 120CCPM is 270-150-30, but make sure you have the right servo selected for the right angle.

I don't think it will make a difference if the long arms are parallel or at an angle, so long as you do not have too much mechanical advantage from the swash to the main grips. The servos have a limited amount of resolution, so if you get to much mechanical gain from the swash to the blade grips, the V-bar cannot compensate and the heli will wobble all over the place.

As for phasing, you want to make sure that the balls on the swash innner ring are exactly 90 degrees to the main blades, otherwise it will be difficult to control (unless you electronically adjust the phasing).

The problem I can see with the angled long control arms is that they look like they could pop off from the swash ball.

MinAir Spectra-G
Trex 450Pro V-bar /Scorpion /JR
Wally Motors/New England Heli/DL Canopies

08-17-2009 05:00 PM

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TmMugen
Key Veteran
Location: Tiny Little Red Dot aka Singapore

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Guys, just a very super duper noob question:

Does the FBL an easy set up like the normal flybar type? Trying to poison myself with FBL.

Roger's Crash Counter: 09 last dated 1 Sept 2009. Why I can't do 3D?

08-17-2009 05:04 PM

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MB-PC
Heliman
Location: Libertyville, IL-USA

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I think you are right. I am getting aileron interacting with elevator and vice versa with the links parallel to the mast. I will rotate the swash driver- the links will no longer be parallel to the mast but I should not get any interaction- maybe that's why I get sloppy rolls and flips. To adjust the cyclic travel- go to the expert parameters under swashplate servos and adjust the cyclic gain to adjust cyclic travel. Then adjust cyclic ring to eliminate binding. My swash servo angles are also 270-150-30. Thanks blingbling

08-17-2009 05:09 PM

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jrockstuart
Elite Veteran
Location: Allen, Texas

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If the balls on the inner swashplate are not exactly 90 degrees to the main blade grips, your phasing will be off and you will have a lot of problems with aileron/elevator interactions.

It doesn't matter what angle the control rods are, so long as the inner swash ball and the blade grip ball are exactly in line with the main shaft.

blingbling rapt has the correct phasing as seen in his picture. Correct phasing along with the V-bar sensor exactly parallel with the frames of the helicopter will result in a good flying ship.

MinAir Spectra-G
Trex 450Pro V-bar /Scorpion /JR
Wally Motors/New England Heli/DL Canopies

08-17-2009 05:16 PM

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MB-PC
Heliman
Location: Libertyville, IL-USA

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TmMugen-
It was more difficult for me to get the FBL srimok up in the air than my T700. I had to learn how to zero the blades without a flybar- (I used a bubble level from FMP), get the vbar set up, figure out what all the parameters mean, then I made sure the correction directions were all right. There is no preset model for the srimok in Vbar, but the universal preset 120degree reverse worked for me. I also had to experiment with gyro tape to eliminate tail drift. Now that it's in the air and flying, I'm adjusting gains and now the swash driver to make it roll and flip better. Watch the setup vids from the mikado vstabi website. it helped me alot. I just wished that the KASAMA instructions had more detail on the cyber head setup.

08-17-2009 05:20 PM

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jrockstuart
Elite Veteran
Location: Allen, Texas

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Easiest way to measure the blade angle without a flybar (in my opinion) is to buy one of these:

http://www.wixey.com/anglegauge/index.html

MinAir Spectra-G
Trex 450Pro V-bar /Scorpion /JR
Wally Motors/New England Heli/DL Canopies

08-17-2009 05:28 PM

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Kasama Srimok 90 > Help! Mikado v-bar setup

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