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Kyosho Caliber-3-5-6-Series F3C-Caliber-90 > Caliber 90 Ver 06 on the way! Build thread
 
 
Spookyeng
Senior Heliman
Location: Gulf Breeze, FL USA

My Posts This: Topic  Forum

Another question for you Erich. I noticed in your thread the suggestion to use 12.5mm spacing on the horn. I understand for better resolutions and torque, but I would like to keep everything at 90 if I can for better geometry, which will help set-up and the push-pull. I am not trying to be a pain by asking s many question, but want to understand the thoughts behind 12.5mm spacing compared to 15 mm and if the resolution and torque outweigh the geometry. Thanks again and take care.

Jason

Kyosho Caliber 90 Ver 06
09-12-2009 06:20 PM
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ErichF
Elite Veteran
Location: Odessa, FL 33556 (Tampa Area)

My Posts This: Topic  Forum
Quote 
I know that the servo grommet metal inserts are primarily used in airplanes with wood screws and wondering if you guys use them with the carbon fiber retainer plates also? I did not use them in this install or for any I have every build for that matter. Just curious if you guys use them.

Yes, I have always used them, unless the kit supplies an alternate servo mounting system like Bergen. In their kits, they have servo mount blocks that have molded "bushings" that serve the same purpose.

In the case of the flat carbon servo tab plates, I use the inserts. The top plates are tightened down only so much as to compress the grommets gently, and somewhat on the bushing. Without the inserts, the servo can drift around a bit, even causing long term damage to the grommet as the screw threads are in contact with the grommet.

Quote 
I noticed in your thread the suggestion to use 12.5mm spacing on the horn. I understand for better resolutions and torque, but I would like to keep everything at 90 if I can for better geometry, which will help set-up and the push-pull. I am not trying to be a pain by asking s many question, but want to understand the thoughts behind 12.5mm spacing compared to 15 mm and if the resolution and torque outweigh the geometry.

This suggestion was given to me by Wayne Mann. Yes, the servo pushrods do form a trapezoidal geometry, but it's so minimal it doesn't affect the direct servo geometry. I have not seen any issues with it whatsoever using the Elevated RC swash leveller/pointer. Of course, with good quality, strong servos, this may be a moot point. Another reason is that the stock Futaba 6 arm wheels have holes at 12.5mm already. So, no drilling jigs!

Glad you are having fun with the build. BTW, what's great about the Red n Tacky is the tacky part. That stuff ticks like honey. It won't get all slung out of your head and bearings like Tri-Flow grease. In fact, it's so sticky, I use it on the tip of scew drivers when installing screws in tight, deep spots on airframes. It can even be used in lieu of a magnet for retrieving dropped screws in frames.

Cheers,
Erich
09-12-2009 07:39 PM
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Spookyeng
Senior Heliman
Location: Gulf Breeze, FL USA

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		Thanks for the information Erich. I installed the grommets with bushings and shimmed the right lever. Clearance is good and I see what you are saying about the clearance on the elevator servo wheel when you have the control balls installed. Tight fit.

I did get a couple other items complete while I was waiting on my set-up battery to charge. I installed the fan, shroud, and muffler. I am glad that shroud is done. Can't believe how much I had to take off for the #995 muffler. I am happy with the results.

Other than that I installed the other two servos. I will use the 15mm spacing. The BLS252 have plenty of torque at 6v so not too concerned with that. I use the wheels that require drilling. I have the futaba jigs already and I prefer this method over using sub-trim. A little time consuming but worth it if you can get zero on all CCPM and rudder trims.

I am going to try and find the Lucas grease you use locally first then go online if I can't find it. From your experience with it and what I have read online about it seems much better than the tri-flow for dampers, and a alot of other things too For now the Tri flow will be fine and when I rebuild the head after a couple of flights, I will give it a try.

Here are the pictures from today and a couple of the Helo Controls Unit. Very excited to set-up this gyro/gov. Very compact unit. Take care guys.

Jason



Kyosho Caliber 90 Ver 06
09-13-2009 03:23 AM
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Spookyeng
Senior Heliman
Location: Gulf Breeze, FL USA

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		Just looking at the pictures I posted and sorry they are blurry. I need to switch the resolution and get a steadier hand! More tomorrow.

Kyosho Caliber 90 Ver 06
09-13-2009 03:28 AM
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ErichF
Elite Veteran
Location: Odessa, FL 33556 (Tampa Area)

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		I took all my pics for my build thread with the camera on a tripod, macro focus mode, 3 second timer (no hands on).

Erich
09-13-2009 03:31 AM
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Spookyeng
Senior Heliman
Location: Gulf Breeze, FL USA

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		I need to take the pictures on a tripod, maybe they would come out better Some come out clear and others not so much. Anyways....

Installed the throttle servo, back plate sensor, and got the head on and everything aligned. So far the only thing I am going to replace with aftermarket is the ball links. Very, very tight and not symmetrical (1 turn required for adjustment). I have rocket city rod ends that I am going to use and I like the finer adjust-ability (1/2 turn adjust-ability)they provide. Extra plus is that they are a perfect, smooth, and slop free fit. No sizing required. With the 1:1 push rod diagrams should be very easy to get them close. They are actually very close to the Kyosho pieces. I prefer these links to any I have seen.

Also looking at the elevator lever control push pull balls and noticed that they need a little extra stand off to be inline with the control balls on the servo wheel. I have a couple of longer stand off that were in the kit and I plan on using them to get that in alignment. Everything else looks great and your right Erich, This has been a very fun build and I am enjoying it alot, sad the build is almost over.

Couple of pictures from today.



Kyosho Caliber 90 Ver 06
09-13-2009 06:12 PM
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UPSguy
Heliman
Location: Toledo, OH USA

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		do the rocket city link ends fit on the Kyosho rods or do you have to use their rods? If you have to replace the whole link and ends, wonder if you have looked at the Shirmok linkages? I believe they are titanium and infinitely adjustable as they are set up as a turnbuckle.

Enjoying your build.

the man on top of the mountain didn't fall there
09-13-2009 06:44 PM
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Spookyeng
Senior Heliman
Location: Gulf Breeze, FL USA

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		UPSguy,

Yes the Rocket City end fit on the Kyosho rods with no problem. You have to buy the 2.0-2.3mm ends. I get them from Ron's Heliproz South.

Talking about the Shrimok, I want to build that helicopter next if I don't build a Vibe 90SG. I love the Kasama design and parts fit and finish is top notch.

Thanks for the words, this has been a very nice build and I am looking forward to flying it. Take care.

Jason

Kyosho Caliber 90 Ver 06
09-13-2009 07:35 PM
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Spookyeng
Senior Heliman
Location: Gulf Breeze, FL USA

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		Got the helicopter basically finished this afternoon. I have to install the tail servo and finish up the linkages.

I do have another question for ya Erich. In the manual on the 1:1 diagrams for the pushrods it gives s spacing dimension of various lengths but I want to know if this is accurate or is the overall length a better measurement to use on the 1:1. In all cases the approx mm dimension between links is not accurate. I used my calipers to check the dimensions and the are off by 7-15 mm on the drawings from when I measure the diatance on the drawing with the caliper. Not a big deal as I can set-up all distances once I start the final set-up but. I did build the three CCPM levers to swash pushrods with the rocket city end very smooth.

Overall the tail assembly is very smooth. In the one picture i showed what I set the belt tension to. I am not sure what the best preload is on the tail drive belt. I moved it until it was tight then backed off a bit. I could not resist to put the canopy on for a overall shot.. Take care. more to follow...

Cheers!

Jason



Kyosho Caliber 90 Ver 06
09-14-2009 02:19 AM
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ErichF
Elite Veteran
Location: Odessa, FL 33556 (Tampa Area)

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		I didn't use the 1:1 diagrams for lengths, I used my digital calipers and measured as spec'd in the manual. On my initial build, I used all OEM links, though. Later on, I replaced all the links from the swash down with RC links as the OEM ones wore out. In that case, I used my ball link adapters on my calipers to precisely duplicate the lengths.

BTW, did you inspect your washout "porkchop" arms? My first kit had defective ones, and both cracked when I installed them onto the swash balls. They were not properly cut from the mold sprue, and had huge chucks torn out of the plastic. See my pics below:



When you rig your tail pitch bellcrank, be advised that when the pitch plate arms of the bell crank are directly over the pulley, the proper anti-torque pitch is applied to the blade grips. So, don't go looking for flat pitch on the blades with a centered pitch plate and bell crank.

You can get away with a pretty loose tail belt on this model. The tube is so wide and the pulleys so big, slippage is not an issue. You may hear a occasional bit of belt slap during low rpm hovering, but that's normal. Tighten further to your taste.

Also, I find it's good to pre-load the tail control rods just a bit. This keeps the system tight and reduces resonance on the rods. With this tail control system, there really is no excuse for any free play whatsoever. If you move the tail blade AT ALL, the servo arm should also be moving. You will also find you can run incredibly high gyro gains on this model, esp with the BLS251.

I can't wait to see this new baby fly at JAX...

Cheers,
Erich
09-14-2009 02:38 AM
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ErichF
Elite Veteran
Location: Odessa, FL 33556 (Tampa Area)

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		Jason, I also meant to let you know that Daniel Hiatt, Cliff's son, is hosting a "fun-test" up in Huntsville. This would be a great chance for you to see some great machines, talk to icons in the sport, and learn some stuff about contest flying. It's Oct 17-18. Unfortunately, it's the same weekend as the JAX fun fly...but we will have the field all to ourselves in Huntsville.

Erich
09-14-2009 02:40 AM
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Spookyeng
Senior Heliman
Location: Gulf Breeze, FL USA

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		Erich,

Thanks for all the information. On the measurements did you use the gap between the ball links or did you measure the overall length, center of ball capture to ball capture?

I did not have any issues with the porkchop arm ball cup. They were in good shap. I will monitor them, thank for the heads up.

What tail blades are you running on the caliber? Right now I have the Kyosho plastic tail blades but would like to put a carbon fiber set. I still have to order the Rotor Tech paddles and start thinking about how I am going to route all the wires and I might build a another mounting area from carbon fiber. I have some ideas on that, more to come.....

I do not know which event I would rather go to. I think Jacksonville is a little closer for me. I would like to meet up with you guys and fly. I should have the helicopter test flown before I go, so it should be tweaking it at the event. I am looking forward to get either one of the events.

Talk to you soon.

Jason

Kyosho Caliber 90 Ver 06
09-15-2009 03:12 PM
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ErichF
Elite Veteran
Location: Odessa, FL 33556 (Tampa Area)

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		I have these neat little guys I bought from Ron's awhile back that clamp onto the fingers of a caliper. They are tapered so can be used for any size link. It measures ball center to center.

I have been, and continue to run, the stock plastic tails. I have been considering trying the Rotortech tails, though.

Well, considering that we'll be able to fly the way we like to fly at the Huntsville funtest, I think I will be doing that one. I'm sure that's where all the other FAI types will be too, such as Gordie and Dave. I know Cliff is going, and maybe Wayne. You're not going to get much done at the JAX event, compared to the Huntsville. However, JAX is also closer to me, and I had a great time last year...so...

Erich
09-15-2009 11:00 PM
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Spookyeng
Senior Heliman
Location: Gulf Breeze, FL USA

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		I have the vario clamp on pieces that I use also. I was just wondering how close the 1:1 diagrams are center ball to center ball? I plan on taking the measurements from the 1:1 with my caliper and set-up the linkages. Getting ready to go to Indiana for a couple of days tomorrow, so not much is going to be done.

I think I have design sorted out for a second radio tray. I have some G10 already sitting here but I will probably order up some carbon fiber and aluminum and make the additional plate. I will post some pictures of that also once I get it finalized and built.

Take care and talk to you guys later

Kyosho Caliber 90 Ver 06
09-16-2009 12:44 AM
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Spookyeng
Senior Heliman
Location: Gulf Breeze, FL USA

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		Back from Indiana and got the second radio tray finished. I ended up using the G10 I had. Color is not the greatest but wanted to get an idea of how I was going to do this before I buy the black G10 material. I think I will just use the first piece I made. My goal was to make the piece modular and not interfere with the existing structure. After a little thought and measuring I came up with the idea seen in the pictures. I used a brass strap bent into a U-shape glued with hysol and 2mm hardware. the blue clips are festo 6mm fuel tubing clips that are made for 6mm tubing, perfect because the frame spacers are 6mm were the bolt is threaded in. An additional benefit of the tray is that it allows me to get the reactor-x heat sink over the fan for increased cooling. while I was waiting on the epoxy to set-up on the festo fitting....I made up a mount for the spektrun satellite rx. I wanted to get it away from the carbon fiber side frames and this was the best I could come up with.

The only issue I had was the main rx was slightly rubbing on the inside of the canopy. Since I use Velcro to mount it, just moved it back about 1/8-1/4". I am looking into mounting sideways which would work out great but would show a little extra wire. Speaking of wiring. I will custom make all my jumper wires between the gyro/gov, rx, and regulator to keep everything clean. I am also thinking about shorting the cyclic leads but have not decided yet. Couple of pictures.



Kyosho Caliber 90 Ver 06
09-21-2009 07:14 PM
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craigcec
New Heliman
Location: Australia

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		I would not trust that scott grey reg on such a nice machine.
They tend to crack between the two pcb's and cause loss of cyclic control. We have had four fail at our club. One sending an Aurora to its death. I'm using the elyQ reg.

Cheers Craig.
09-22-2009 03:28 AM
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Spookyeng
Senior Heliman
Location: Gulf Breeze, FL USA

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		Craig,

Thanks for the input. That's not great odds at your field. I will monitor this one but so far it is working great, knock on wood! This is my third SG regulator. I know of problems on the earlier models without the heat sink, but every unit that I have had has worked as advertised. It comes down to "every unit can fail at some time or some reason, maybe due to errors in the manufacturing process (bad production run or QA oversight) or end user installation and application." I used Duralite stuff prior to the SG and I like their stuff but did have a battery malfunction, so no one ever truly knows. Duralite replaced it and I continued to use their products for another couple of years before switching to the SG regulator. The change for me was one of simplicity and I like the design of the system, Chevy and Ford kind of stuff.

Made the final changes to the radio tray and it is now basically finished. I found it best to mount the RX and regulator in a over/under configuration. This serves two purposes. 1. No interference with the canopy with the RX under mounted and 2. The RX and regulator servo plug inputs are 180 degrees out from each other. During wiring routing is makes you turn the jumper leads 180 if mounted on the same level. With the RX flipped upside down the jumpers have a straight shot. The second point is very minor and not the main reason to move the RX. I can get OCD with wiring and if everything is neat and thought out in the beginning, it makes trouble shooting if you have a electrical problem a lot easier. One issue to note is that you may notice that I used Hysol the second time to glue the festo fittings to the tray. I don't know if the epoxy was old or if I did not let it cure enough before I installed the tray into the frames, probably the latter

I am just waiting on my heavy duty servo wire and plugs to get here so I can finish up the tray with RX to regulator jumpers. I have to install the tail servo and build a extension for that also. All those items are on the way. I am going to get working on getting the links built for the head. Take care and more to follow...



Kyosho Caliber 90 Ver 06
09-22-2009 02:31 PM
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Spookyeng
Senior Heliman
Location: Gulf Breeze, FL USA

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		I love to tinker, so I redesigned the satellite RX mounting bracket. It was not hitting the canopy but very close. This time instead of using cap screw I used countersink screws. I used rubber busings to help isolate extra vibration if there is any, don't know if it was needed but you can always add too not take away from.

I think I said it before this is the part that I like, building is my favorite thing to do. I wish I could open just a building service, although I don't think it would be very profitable!

I am still saving for my Smithy Lathe, Mill, Drill press combo and I can't wait to get it so I can produce more metal parts that are out of my capability right now.

Anyway, couple of pictures of the new mount. Take care.



Kyosho Caliber 90 Ver 06
09-22-2009 04:42 PM
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ErichF
Elite Veteran
Location: Odessa, FL 33556 (Tampa Area)

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		So, are ya there, yet?

Erich
09-30-2009 08:33 PM
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Spookyeng
Senior Heliman
Location: Gulf Breeze, FL USA

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		Almost, Sorry for the long delay. Work has been very busy and I just can't find the time and the weekends have been pretty full also. I should get back on it in the next couple of days. I have the tail servo temp mounted and I finished the jumpers from the regulator to RX. I have to finish the jumpers from the RX to the Gyro/Gov and should have the wiring done. Got the push-rods build for the head and waiting on the battery to show up this week to start putting power to everything and begin programming and final set-up....

I do have a question as I begin set-up. With the collective at 50% stick, cyclic centered, what height should the bottom of the swash be above the top bearing block? This should give me my 0 pitch mechanically, I will adjust the curves to give a 50% stick hover later. Fine tune all pushrods to get equall, etc...

Sorry for the long delay, but work gets in the way. Take care.

Jason

Kyosho Caliber 90 Ver 06
09-30-2009 11:47 PM
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Kyosho Caliber-3-5-6-Series F3C-Caliber-90 > Caliber 90 Ver 06 on the way! Build thread
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