RunRyder RC Helicopter Topic - Caliber 90 Ver 06 on the way! Build thread

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Kyosho Caliber-3-5-6-Series F3C-Caliber-90 > Caliber 90 Ver 06 on the way! Build thread

Spookyeng
Senior Heliman
Location: Gulf Breeze, FL USA

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Lets get started.

Started working on the Caliber today. Just a little prep work but still took about 1.5 hours for four pieces. I filed all edges that I can get at with a fine grit sanding stick and then use thin CA wicked into a Q-tip that I run along the all ID and OD edges. For me this is worth the time. Dresses up the surfaces and help protect against chipping and delamination during a crash. Knock on wood with the crash word! This also help to prevent any chaffing of wires that route along the edges. I know this is common but thought I would share this step. The second pictures shows the before and after of two pieces. Take care. More to follow...

Kyosho Caliber 90 Ver 06

08-30-2009 05:38 PM

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Spookyeng
Senior Heliman
Location: Gulf Breeze, FL USA

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I am getting ready to build the transmission box and I want to re-address the third bearing before I assemble. I want to run it buy you guys and get your opinion.

Option #1 I want to use permatex sleeve retainer for holding the bearing in place and use it as the bottom bearing block instead of the middle. This way when the main shaft is installed and play is removed using the collars the bottom of the gear will push down on the bottom bearing. I really don't think the bearing would come loose using sleeve retainer (3,000 psi of grip force and it would really have to be heated to remove) but installing it on the bottom will help keep it in place.

Option #2 Is to use the 3mm button heads screws with washers and use the two 3mm threaded holes located on each side of the bearing socket to hold them in place. This is the only reason I can see for these screw holes being there. I looked through the entire manual and did not see these used.

If I have a third bearing block I might as well use it, but wanted to run my ideas by you guys. I really don't want to drill a hole and insert a set screw if I don't have to. Please send inputs on either method good or bad. Thanks

Kyosho Caliber 90 Ver 06

08-30-2009 06:57 PM

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ErichF
Elite Veteran
Location: Odessa, FL 33556 (Tampa Area)

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Option two is the safest and simplest.

Have fun,

Erich

08-30-2009 07:24 PM

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UPSguy
Heliman
Location: Toledo, OH USA

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Are you planning on putting washers under all the screws going into the frames? Seems as Kyosho is the only one that doesn't use washers between the bolts and carbon frames.

I am sure at the price point of the Caliber 90, Kyosho wouldn't skim on anything necessary.

the man on top of the mountain didn't fall there

08-30-2009 07:51 PM

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ErichF
Elite Veteran
Location: Odessa, FL 33556 (Tampa Area)

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No, do not use washers...and listen...do NOT use loctite on the frame bolts either. Yes, I said no loctite. Without washers, the carbon plate frames act as friction locks under the bolt heads.

The reason for not using loctite is this: If you have a crash, bolts will shear off in those aluminum billet frame ladders, and you won't be able to remove them. Those frame ladders are very expensive to replace just because of two or three sheared bolts.

Properly torqued, you won't have problems with the frame bolts coming loose. It's also a testiment to how smooth running this airframe is.

Erich

08-30-2009 08:04 PM

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Spookyeng
Senior Heliman
Location: Gulf Breeze, FL USA

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I was not planning on using washers, but the thought did enter my mind about no washers. What Erich said does make sense with not needing the washers. I agree with you UPSguy, about the price point and sure Kyosho has thought all this out.

When it comes to loctite and screws....I agree that properly torqued and with preventative maintenance, there should be no problem. I am curious about proper torque for 3mm screws, actually unsure how you know you have the bolt properly torqued without using a torque wrench of some kind? I also agrree that this airframe should not need loctite due to its smooth running.

I reguards to the third bearing block. I am going to use two button head screw w/washers to retain the bearing. Saying that I found some align R48 green loctite that I will use to secure the outer race from spinning in the socket. I will install that in the middle bearing block position and use the factory installed bearing on the bottom per the instructions. Will post a couple of pictures once I get it done. Take care.

Jason

Kyosho Caliber 90 Ver 06

08-30-2009 08:39 PM

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ErichF
Elite Veteran
Location: Odessa, FL 33556 (Tampa Area)

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Now, let me be clear, I mean no loctite on the frame bolts. Everything else needs loctite just like any other bird.

Oh, and find you a pair of 4mm shank blade grip bolts from a 50 somewhere and replace the upper jesus bolt and main gear bolt. The stock kit uses all-thread bolts for some reason. They work ok for awhile, but I did shear the main gear bolt once on spool-up.

Once installed, trim off the excess threads with a Dremel. Leave at least two threads exposed outside of the locknuts.

Erich

08-30-2009 08:50 PM

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ErichF
Elite Veteran
Location: Odessa, FL 33556 (Tampa Area)

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Speaking of Loctite, when you install the fan belt pulley and start coupler assembly onto the clutch stack, smear a generous amount of blue loctite inside the starter coupler before you slide it onto the clutch shaft. After doing so, mount the engine/clutch assy in a vise with the start couple facing downwards to prevent loctite from getting into the clutch bell bearing. Let this cure overnight before installing the engine and applying belt tensions.

The purpose of the loctite in this respect is to close any gap between the starter coupler/fan belt pulley and the clutch shaft. I didn't do this at first and kept throwing the pulley mounting bolts out of the clutch shaft. Wayne told me the error of my ways, and since have never thrown a bolt.

Erich

08-30-2009 08:54 PM

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Spookyeng
Senior Heliman
Location: Gulf Breeze, FL USA

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Typo on my last post. I will use loctite everywhere else except for frame bolts that go through the carbon fiber side frames.

Thanks Erich for all the pointers on this build. Talk to you later.

Kyosho Caliber 90 Ver 06

08-30-2009 09:03 PM

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UPSguy
Heliman
Location: Toledo, OH USA

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Erich, since you are posting tips (and we are greatful for them) what was the tip about setting up the rotor head spindle shaft to get rid of your vibration? What did you do to change the delta of the head?

Thanks again, and am going to enjoy this build thread along with yours.

the man on top of the mountain didn't fall there

08-30-2009 09:16 PM

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ErichF
Elite Veteran
Location: Odessa, FL 33556 (Tampa Area)

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Ahh, yeah that pesky oscillation? Well, some of that was me using the inner holes on the main grip pitch arms. I was trying to get a smidge more pitch range. Those holes were a bit overkill, and caused that crazy lateral oscillation between 1500 and 1800 RPM.

Another one was having the blade grips too tight. There is a sweet spot that will prevent boom strikes on rough autos, and an oscillation as you transition through Idle-Up. Another thing that helps with overall flying quality is removing the spindle bolts that pin it through the yoke. This makes it more of a free-floating axle design. First, remove the center yoke bearings and sleeves. I then install some 3MX10 set screws with blue aerotrend fuel line over them into the spindle. They jam against eachother end to end, so you have to make sure you install them together so they are centers.

This as a trick that Wayne also clued me into. Both Wayne and Dwight now use a solid round axle for a full floating axle setup.

As for the damper pre-sets, I screw the squish rings down to surface contact, then turn past four "bumps" more. Try that and adjust to your taste. Remember to grease the snot out of the damper donuts or the squish rings won't pre-set properly and evenly.

Erich

08-30-2009 10:45 PM

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Spookyeng
Senior Heliman
Location: Gulf Breeze, FL USA

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Finished a little more. Everything is working out great but I do have one concern. In this case no matter what I do the main shaft will not slide free through all three bearing at the same time. It goes through the first two on either side smooth then a slight push to get in the third. I have to apply a small amount of force, about 1 lb, of force to get it into the third bearing block. once the main shaft is in all three bearings, it is super smooth. The main shaft is 90 degrees to the bearings and I checked run out at Less than .0001". This is as far as my dial indicator goes and the needle did not make it to the .0001 line. I am wondering if I am being to anal and this is OK or should I keep adjusting until it floats through all three bearing blocks. I inserted the main shaft the entire tightening process and sequentially secured all bolts with no loctite. I know if I removed the third (middle) bearing it would float smoothly due to the factory free play in the bearings. Couple of pictures.

Kyosho Caliber 90 Ver 06

08-31-2009 12:07 AM

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ErichF
Elite Veteran
Location: Odessa, FL 33556 (Tampa Area)

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What your experiencing is a quality kit...in which the shafts actually FIT the bearings they are in. Shafts should not go through a bearing as if it were a bushing, which is how most kits are sized.

You'll continue to see this kind of fit throughout the kit in other areas.

Erich

08-31-2009 12:13 AM

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Spookyeng
Senior Heliman
Location: Gulf Breeze, FL USA

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Thanks, if this is what I have to expect, I am in for a real treat.

Everything fits great with no play and I guess I am not use to the quality of the kit. I am having a good time building this one so far and actually got more done today than I thought i would. Last pictures of the night. Take care.

Kyosho Caliber 90 Ver 06

08-31-2009 01:53 AM

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Spookyeng
Senior Heliman
Location: Gulf Breeze, FL USA

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Got some more done. I was moving along and I forgot to take pictures of the clutch install. Overall very will machined and everything fits well. The fan was a little off and a little sanding of the blade end balanced it out. The only pictures I have of the clutch install is my fancy crank locking tool. A piece of 1 1/4" dowel with a notch cut into the end and a 7/16" wood bolt screwed on the other end for leverage. Works great. I actually could not find, or I threw it away, my delrin locking tool so it forced me to make my own. I let the engine and clutch assembly sit over night as Erich suggested to let the blue loctite on the starter/fan pulley set-up. The liner did require a little sanding in the aera where the liner butts up. One side was a little higher than the other and grabbing on the cutch, easy fix and super smooth. Pictures from the last couple of days. More to follow....

Kyosho Caliber 90 Ver 06

09-02-2009 01:06 PM

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ErichF
Elite Veteran
Location: Odessa, FL 33556 (Tampa Area)

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Dang, please tell me you put RED LOCTITE on the engine crank threads before you installed the clutch assembly?

Otherwise, the first time you try to crank the engine when flooded, you will spin the whole assembly right off with your starter.

If you didn't no big deal, you can remove the whole stack as one assembly using a 6mm Allen wrench or 3/8dr socket in the start coupler.

Blue Loctite won't hold enough.

Erich

09-02-2009 01:20 PM

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fla heli boy
Veteran
Location: cape coral, florida

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looks good

"go with God son......and a bag full of guns"

09-02-2009 02:10 PM

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Spookyeng
Senior Heliman
Location: Gulf Breeze, FL USA

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Erich,

Yes, I put red loctite on the crank threads before I put on the clutch, thanks for the back up. I installed the start coupler and fan pulley and used that to tighten the clutch and adapter on the engine crank using the wood crankshaft locking tool on the back side. I then installed the bell and installed the start shaft with the blue loctite on the shaft. then let it sit overnight. Pictures were taken this morning before I left for work.

I have not loctited any of the frame bolts yet. Tonight when I get home I will take the helicopter off the padded mat and place on the building board glass and ensure everything is flat and square as I tighten all the bolts and use blue loctite were required.

Thanks fla heli boy.

Kyosho Caliber 90 Ver 06

09-02-2009 04:40 PM

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nitrodude_aussi
New Heliman
Location: Canberra, ACT Australia

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Caliber 90 V6FT build in Aus...

Hi Folks,

I'm also building one of these. This one has the staysee fus.

Here is the build thread...http://www.archeli.com.au/forums/sh...29&postcount=27

I have Caliber 90 spares in stock http://www.nitrodude.com.au

Paul

09-03-2009 01:59 AM

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Spookyeng
Senior Heliman
Location: Gulf Breeze, FL USA

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Thanks for sharing nitrodude_aussi! Your helicopter looks great.

Got a few more things complete. Joined the upper and lower half together and loctited all required bolts. I finished up by installing the landing gear. Everything, once again fit well. I found that you half to torque everything very slowly to not throw the chassis out of square, it is not by much maybe .005" at the most. Using the glass board really helped to double check that everything was coming together square and perpendicular where required. I use a feeler gauge underneath the chassis and see if I can pass it under and 123 squares to verify the sides are 90 degress to the building board or glass in case. After getting everything square and secure, I removed all bolts that I was going to loctite one at a time and replace. Once that was done I rechecked runout on the mainshaft and it was zero. I don't think you can be too anal when building a helicopter, time spent now means a better flying machine in the end.

I start by cleaning all bolts with brake clean sprayed into a paper towel and turn the screw in the wetted area. I do this until I see no more grease on the paper towel, time consuming bolt by bolt but I have never had a bolt come lose due to human error. When loctiting bolts I use a method that is very clean and has worked well for me over he years. I use a piece of foam and wet the edge with blue loctite or red when appliciable and roll the screw in the foam saturated with the loctite. You don't get loctite all over and not a lot of waste.

I am truely enjoying this build and look forward to finishing this one. My Helo Controls Gyro/Gov is on its way and I will do a full write up here during the install. Pictures from today. Take care and thanks for the interest. More to follow....